The media hype about older women seeking out young men for sexual contact has about worn me down. As a relationship therapist for four decades, I have certainly defended many unfairly labeled "dirty old men," who were just guys who fell in love with younger women for their beauty, energy, and potential for having children. Many of my older male patients have wanted to start families again and have created great second marriages.
Now I have a whole new group of valuable people to defend. In the past several years, I've had the pleasure of working with older women in relationships with often much younger men. They are not the "older women who frequent clubs to score sexually with younger men," as the new, and unfair definition is of "Cougars." They are quality, mature women who have been actively sought after by younger men for long-term, committed relationships. Yes, sex is an important part of their relationship, but there is so much more.
Currently, I am working with five couples where the women are five to eighteen years older than their male partners. All of them are in committed relationships. They come into therapy to work on typical issues that all couples face, but also on the challenges that they receive regularly from the outside. Society still has deep prejudices against older women with younger men, unfairly non-reciprocal when the genders are reversed.
I ask these young men what attracts them to their women. They regularly tell me things like:
"She is so incredibly smart about life,"
"She is so easy to be with, nothing fazes her,"
"She tracks me so well. I never have to explain myself or feel badly about who I am. I've never felt this known and still loved,"
"It is so great to be with someone who isn't so concerned about what people think about her. The confidence she feels about herself and what she has to offer is an amazing turn-on."
Here's what the women say:
"He is so caring and appreciative of the things I do for him that are second nature to me."
"He makes me feel beautiful and desirable."
"He is so great with my kids."
"He's always up for any adventure. So many of the older guys I dated were uninterested in the exciting things I love to do."
"He helps me so much, often before I even have to ask."
Their most pressing problem is the discrimination they face. These couples get so many covert and overt negative comments from people that clearly indicate their discomfort: Jealous friends, kids who think moms shouldn't be in love, competitive ex-husbands who may feel displaced by a younger man, implied differences in capacity to provide for financial needs, prejudices against mature women who are "robbing the cradle," and stereotypes about older women only wanting younger men for better sex. And those are only a few.
Here's one example:
Vicky and Hal met in a book club three years ago. Vicky's husband had left her four years earlier to marry a woman twenty years younger. Her kids were torn between their concern for their mom and wanting to accept his new wife. Their dad insisted they get over the fact that his new girlfriend was only six years older than his daughters and wanted them to be "great friends."
Hal was just getting over a long-term relationship with his past girl-friend and discouraged over the women he'd been dating. So many of them were over-indulgent and self-serving, looking for money and a good time. He'd felt like they just didn't understand what it was like to spend so many years building a career and trying to pay off the huge debt he'd incurred.
Vicky seemed sincerely concerned. Twelve years older than Hal, she was wonderfully alive, kind, and calm, paying careful attention when he shared his conflicts and broken dreams. He never thought about the age difference between them as a barrier to their growing intimacy. The more time they spent together, the greater their friendship deepened. Neither thought it would be anything more than that but after a year, it blossomed into a romantic relationship.
At first, her girls thought it a little odd that their mom would spend so much time with someone so much younger than she, but Hal was such a great guy and so much fun to be around. Hanging out as a family became more natural and easy over time. They had to ward off many derogatory remarks from other people, especially from their dad, but they eagerly defended their mom's choice.
Their dad didn't do as well. Somehow feeling oddly displaced, he told Vicky that he wanted to reduce the alimony he was paying her, and told her she should "get money from her new friend for his services." He also regularly told her that people were laughing at her behind her back. Though sensitive and concerned about what people were saying, Vicky took comfort in the wonderful relationship she and Hal were creating.
One of the new modal points for divorce is women over sixty leaving sedate, often self-indulgent husbands who no longer think that romance is necessary in a long-term relationship. These more mature women are searching for men who still love an active relationship, are open to new adventures, energetic in their romantic commitments, and love women who have a combination of all of those same desires plus the maturity that life's lessons provide. What is wrong with that pairing and why can't this society offer that to its women without the derogatory descriptions that seem to be proliferating?
In Ben Franklin's 1745 essay, "Advice on the Choice of a Mistress," he gives eight reasons why a young man should prefer an older woman. First he advocates why marriage is always better than a casual relationship, but then advises that, if a man is not ready, he should definitely seek out the company of a mature woman over a younger one. Though Ben's mores do reflect the times, he tells his advice-seeker that older women have better minds, offer more interesting conversation, are good at heart, have usually satisfied their need to have children, are unlikely to exploit, give excellent counsel, and are sexually desirable and knowledgeable about good love-making.
People lived much shorter lives then, and Ben was probably not talking about long-term committed relationships, but the descriptions of mature women are not very different from what younger men today feel about their older women partners. Could we possibly come up with a different description and definition of wonderful women who are treasured by their younger men than "Cougars?"
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When I think of the term "COUGAR," I don't think about a 50 year old woman with a 30 year old man. What comes to mind for me is (and I know a woman who did this) a 38 year old with an 18 year old BOY!. Now, even though that age may be "legal," in my eyes, that is still a baby!
I'm not saying that I can't "recognize God's beauty" in people - I see Zac Efron, or Taylor Lautner, and I say, "Wow! Those are some great looking KIDS" But at my almost 41 years of age, KIDS is the operative word! NEVER, NOT ONCE, has it ever crossed my mind {What would they be like in bed?} That is just SICK to me!
So, it is in my opinion, that a lot of people think the way that I do when they think of, and look down upon, "cougars" - it depends on how young the boy is; it doesn't matter as much if he is well into his manhood years, rather than just beginning them, or worse, not quite began them, and in that case, those women should be prosecuted!
Because, perhaps she (they) think like you?
"Sharing my life means sharing the good and bad. Having someone around for "just sex" gets dull and boring very quickly."
That is basically our (men) perspective of why women don't naturally gravitate towards younger men. What more than sex can they offer? And their drive (the majority of men at younger ages) far exceeds the needs of a mature woman. Young man's needs (libido/sex) is at a pretty obsessive level in our 20s. Of course we're going to be looking around after a bit of time...it's nature's hard-wiring of the sexes. If women were normally that aggressive....well, (sexually speaking) life on Earth would be heaven for us!
Why would that be, I wonder?
"Cougars woman" got 20,400,000 results.
"Sought After Mature Women" go 62,300 results.
That's 327 times as many for "cougars women". So objectively speaking, I'd say "sought after mature woman" isn't going to capture the public imagination. You need something more catchy.
Maybe you should consult a branding expert, if you're really serious about this great crusade.
Thinking it is not the same as being.....
I find it to be very liberating to have younger men interested in me and not at all afraid to pursue a mature woman. I think that says a lot about the maturity of these younger men and I for one couldn't be happier. At the end of the day I could care less what anyone has to say about it.
But the author said that she "defended many UNFAIRLY LABELED [emphasis added] 'dirty old men,' who were just guys who fell in love with younger women for their beauty, energy, and potential for having children."
So she wasn't calling them dirty old men herself and didn't think they deserved the label.
If you're the older one, good for you. Pay for the life necessities of the other and you have a good bed buddy. Good for you. If you're the younger one... well, I can think of better ways to make a buck, but probably not an easier one. Good for you.
It's time society just leaves people alone and let's them do what they want. We can't legislate love, so we have to accept that those two are the only ones who know if it is real or just legal prostitution...male OR female. We have no say. Nor does it matter.
Women are the glue that holds this world together. If the rest of us would give them some help, then the world would be a paradise.
I many tribal societies around the world, men are only hunters and warriors. Women are supposed to do almost about everything else, rearing children, gathering food, and so on, even *hauling water*, which is back-breaking work.
It's amazing how many masculine cultures around the world consider the hauling of water to be women's work and offensive even for men to consider it. They feel their masculinity is threatened. I'm talking about ancient societies, tribal societies. It's very common around the world.
Tradition at times is the mother of all injustice.
Anyways...good luck in the polls. This has diffused me, since now I understand the motive.
I never argue a position just to try an increase my poll numbers. I would get no satisfaction from arguing positions I don't believe in. Besides, If I successfully argued positions opposed to my actual point of view, my poll numbers might go up that way as well, but with a different category of people. What would be the point?
My positions are consistent. Anyone can look back through my posts and see that. That doesn't mean I never change my mind about an issue, but it means that I don't flip flop on issues for temporary gain, like to win an argument of win more fans.
For example, I've always been pro-choice and essentially still am. But after I saw a documentary called "Lake of Fire" that had some very graphic images of abortion, I decided that I could only support abortion in very early stages of pregnancy. I always had that position, but after seeing what abortion is really like, it made me want to push the date back for viable abortion even closer to conception.
I'm not tolling for fans. I only argue positions I believe in.
I was raised by a single mother and have high respect for what many women have to go through in life. The fact that you find that controversial tells me a lot about you. But sadly, it only confirms my first impression.
"So why then were you so anxious to show men had a lower libido and were thus sexually inferior?"
Me:
I never tried to show any such thing. But it's also a fact that *some* women have a higher sex drive than *some* men, even before middle age. I'm not saying it's the rule and never would.
Aethon said:
"This other silly stuff about absolutism . . . "
Me:
A said nothing about "absolutism." I said that categorical statements are almost always wrong, and you have a penchant for making them.
I repeat: this argument started when I said that many women over 40 actually experience an increase in sexual desire rather than a decrease. You responded that it is never true ever! That's the only point I was debating, the only point I was trying to support.
But after I came back with evidence and you dismissed it out of hand, I wasn't going to keep playing "fetch" with you, because I knew your mind was closed on the subject and that it would be a total waste of my time.
I'm A Woman --- sung by Koko Taylor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MN-8AIU-ntg&feature=related
She'll shake hands with the devil and make him crawl in the sand!
Yikes!
:-)
enjoy