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Richard C. Senelick, M.D.

Richard C. Senelick, M.D.

Posted: November 8, 2010 08:50 AM

Recently I wrote a blog attempting to help patients work with their doctors. It was an honest attempt to improve the physician/patient experience. What came back was an avalanche of comments filled with anger and hostility toward people's doctors and the health care system.

I decided to look at all of the comments and see if they would fit into categories. They did and the messages were loud and clear. Your doctor doesn't listen to you or care enough, makes too much money, makes you wait too long, and you might do better going to your dog's vet. I can see your heads nodding in agreement behind your computer screens. Here is what you said.

1. My doctor doesn't listen.
This was, by far, the most common complaint. Physicians breeze into the exam room with their own agenda and don't take the time to find out what the patient expects. I just had a colleague tell me that only a few weeks ago he accompanied his brother to an office visit with his brother's oncologist. Jim's brother has cancer with a poor prognosis and they were trying to evaluate their options. Every time Jim's brother and sister in law spoke, the oncologist interrupted, telling them what he wanted to do. Finally, my colleague stepped in and told the oncologist that he needed to "Listen" to the patient. Fortunately, the physician recognized his error and took the time to listen to them and answer all of their questions. Most people are not this assertive or fortunate enough to get such a favorable response.

Dr. Lisa Sanders is an Internist, New York Times columnist and a technical consultant for the TV series, House. In an interview on NPR about her book, "Every Patient Tells a Story," she aptly points out that there are two conversations going on at once. One is with the person telling the doctor about their problem. The second is a simultaneous conversation going on in the doctor's head when they are thinking, "what does it mean and what do I ask next?" This second conversation frequently fogs the patient's message and leads to the doctor interrupting the patient.

A study in Family Medicine reported the disturbing data that, on average, a patient was able to speak uninterrupted for only 12 seconds! On the other hand, Dr. Sanders noted that the average patient will get their story out in two minutes. Doctors do not listen and it interferes with the quality of care and the ability to make a diagnosis. Most of the time, if we take the time to listen, you are telling us what we need to do to help you. Even worse, after the visit was over, patients and doctors couldn't agree on the purpose of the visit. No one was listening!

You are right, many doctors don't listen. They don't sit down, get at eye level with their patients and they fear the dreaded "list." Try my friend's strategy and politely point out to a doctor who isn't listening that you need your questions answered. Although it may be difficult, we are getting used to a better informed and assertive consumer.

2. I have to wait too long.
I fully agree. There are lots of reasons that this happens and many are unavoidable -- an emergency patient has to be worked in; there are only so many slots in a day, etc. However, I recently visited one of my doctors and we used up more than my allotted time complaining about the changes in health care. He told me that the management committee that ran his large group had just informed him that he had to see a patient every 10 minutes. He convinced them to double the time for a new patient. Either way it is not enough time.

The study in Family Medicine reported that the average face time with a doctor was 11 minutes with the patient speaking for only 4 minutes. Add in all the other things that need to be done in a visit and you are always going to be running late. You can't manage your doctor's practice, but here are some things you can do to manage your time.

• Find out when the doctor starts and get the first appointment of the morning or afternoon
• Call 30 minutes before your appointment and find out if the doctor is running on time. If not ask if it is OK if you come later?
• Always bring work or a book, as the magazines in the office are outdated and at least you will be productive
• If your doctor is chronically late, find another doctor.

3. My doctor just doesn't care
Are there doctors with bad attitudes, bad bedside manners and an uncaring attitude? Yes, but I think it is a minority. The doctors I know really do care or they wouldn't have gone to school for 12 years and live the rigorous, demanding life they do. Maybe you caught them on a bad day. BUT, if the chemistry is wrong or you were unlucky enough get the doctor who is a jerk, switch doctors. I wouldn't go back to a restaurant where I got a bad meal twice; the same should be true for a doctor. I feel I am allowed a bad day every so often, but two bad visits back to back and you should go shopping.

Dr. Anna B. Reisman recently wrote an article in the Los Angeles Times entitled, "Doctors can be fired and taught to..." She notes that "we don't fire doctors enough," and I agree. If your doctor doesn't know you are unhappy, they have no chance to change their behavior. She offers excellent advice on how to communicate the message that you are unhappy and changing doctors. Dr. Reisman closes her article with,"an occasional serving of humble pie is good medicine for all doctors."

4. Doctors make too much money.
How much is too much? Do you really know how much money your doctor makes? Yes, some doctor's make a disproportionate amount of money and are overpaid for what they do. Get a group of pediatrician's, family practitioners and internists together and they will tell you exactly who it is that is over paid -- not them. The problem is that the doctor you are seeing for your routine care is most likely not one of those high income earners. Not that we are starving, but the average medical student comes out of medical school with over $100,000 in school loans and if they go into primary care they will be paying those loans back for decades. We are getting a reset in fees. Highly paid specialists are coming down, but primary care doctors are not going up. Unfortunately there will always be a discrepancy, for the politics of reimbursement has always been to favor procedures and hospitalizations as opposed to office visits. I can only ask you to think twice before you assume that your weary eyed pediatrician seeing their 40th sick child of the day is the one being over paid.

5. My dog gets more respect
Let's avoid the whole discussion on the relationship of people and their pets. The valid argument here is that when you take your pet to the vet for a procedure you are likely to get a call that evening or the next day to see how they are doing. Same thing after a dental procedure. Anybody had a call recently after their colonoscopy?

"It's a Dog's World," is a cleverly produced patient satisfaction training video that follows a man and his dog through simultaneous encounters at the doctor's and the veterinarian's office. It would be funny if the message wasn't so startling. Needless to say the dog gets much better attention and care.

[EDITOR'S NOTE: Pet owners are often ready and willing to pay vet fees out of pocket and right on the spot, no insurance billing. Patients need to know that insurance reimbursement is what determines time with patient, not the doctor's choice. Declining insurance reimbursement and rising practice costs is an unhealthy prescription that gets translated into less time with patients.]

I know all the conventional excuses, but I don't know why we don't make the follow-up calls to see if you got your prescriptions, understand the instructions and have your follow-up appointments.

It is good medicine and great for patient/customer satisfaction. I think it is the way we are trained. Medical school never teaches us how to be good at customer satisfaction or become good listeners. I suspect it is time we tried.


 
 
 

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08:30 AM on 11/14/2010
I just wanted to throw in some good vibes here- I have a great, great doctor. I truly feel blessed. He always sits down to talk to me and asks about life in general. He actually remembers who I am. He doesn't interupt me. I don't have insurance and the office is great about letting me pay over time if it is an expensive test/visit.

He also makes sure to write for inexpensive meds when it is available. When I needed to go on a daily inhaler he found samples for me. I just wanted to say I love my doctor. And I actually understand they are over-worked and in many cases, not really making a fortune.
01:44 PM on 11/13/2010
i had a knee specialist in nyc, who was horrible. he was used to dealing with celebrity athletes, and players from the Knicks and the WNBA would routinely come in for physical therapy while I was also using the machines. He would come out of his office, all the way down the hall, and talk to McDeyess on the machine next to me, chatting about how he was doing, and dind't even notice that I, another paying patient, was RIGHT THERE, TOO. He was paid to go on the plane with the baseball players, and it was obvious it all went to his head. This is the Insall-Scott-Kelly institute in Manhattan, which I would avoid. THe physical therapists were good, but the doctors themselves were pretty terrible, as they didn't even care to diagnose the problem, and each visit would be open-ended, as to what to do next.
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Leslie Robinson Goldberg
Writer
09:41 PM on 11/12/2010
During a friend's later years he made many trips to the hospital. Always it was because of a reaction to some prescribed medication or because of his lousy diet and lack of exercise. A lot of people keep looking for the perfect doctor instead of taking a hard look at their lifestyle. The head of Kaiser Permanente a big HMO said medical care in this country is dealing with a population which is "practically inert."
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Progress08
I've come to regard you as people I've met
02:40 PM on 11/12/2010
A buddy of mine is a doctor and he blames the HMO's. Says his office is a factory where a patient sees 2 people before they get to him and he's only got a few minutes to spend with them. He doesn't complain though when he drives his mercedes to the $20,000 joining fee country club for a round of golf.
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capitaldysfunction
White male never voted Republican
02:15 AM on 11/12/2010
As the good doctor points out, one can go to a different doctor if you don't like your experience with one. I went to a dermatologist once who was obviously milking my health insurance for money. I made it my first and last visit to that doctor.

That negative experience says everything about what is wrong with the American way of paying for medical care. Health insurance through private insurers is fundamentally a rip. People are often angry with medical personnel because of the fear or the reality of themselves being taken advantage of financially. Casino personnel experience the same phenomena.
12:33 AM on 11/12/2010
I thought the original article was good, and was happy to see this follow-up.

I've had mixed relationships with my doctors over the years, with some being excellent and going beyond the call of duty, and some being hard-headed or egotistical or so attached to their laptops that they never even look at me. I've had three primary-care physicians quit on me in less than 10 years, one to go to a concierge practice that I couldn't afford, one who was stressed out by his divorce and custody fight and wanted more time off, and one who just up and quit medicine altogether to go work for an investment company (!?!). Frustrating.

Bottom line -- if you feel you can't work with your doctor, find a new one -- don't keep going to the guy you hate and just complain about it.
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tomteboda
06:06 PM on 11/10/2010
My mother is severely disabled, and the most traumatic thing that happens for my family is moving because inevitably the new physicians do not take time to become familiar with her very long chart. My parents had to move last fall and now the new doctors want to remove her from all medications and try treatment regimes that we've been through in the past that didn't work. Its very disheartening, because of how much worse off she was when we went through this before. The new doctors are adamant, however, and seem willing to blame her for being "uncooperative" when no one is as familiar with her medical history as our family is.
12:19 AM on 11/12/2010
If she has tried the treatment regimes before and they didn't work, DON'T let them do that! Doctors are part of the service industry, like car repair and hair cutting. Just because they went to school and paid a lot of money for their education, doesn't put them in charge of your life's decisions-they often forget that they are there to serve YOU.If you have to show them in your mother's paperwork where the same regimes were tried before, do it. If a doctor EVER blames a patient for being uncooperative, leave! We kow tow to doctors, and why?! We are afraid they will not take care of us. We forget WE are in charge! Go to another doctor that will listen and really care for your dear mother.
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tomteboda
03:53 AM on 11/12/2010
Easier said than done in rural areas. But thank you.
10:51 AM on 11/10/2010
Thought this was a good article, showing that you've been both the doctor and the patient. Especially liked reading all the responses.
10:51 AM on 11/10/2010
I've been living in "doctor hell" for the past year. My previous doc prescribed
a medication that caused and all-over rash and I ended up in the hospital for
dehydration and bronchitus - the medication has warnings about this. I got
angry at the staff, I got fired for "abusing the staff." The new doc ( rather
nurse) said that even though I've had chronic Hep B for 15 yrs. my liver
function was almost normal so she gave me the first in a series of Hep
B vaccine shots. Two weeks later my primary care doc became so
alarmed that my liver function was so elevated, he had
to stop my Lipitor. Now the doc that gave me the vaccine wants to
give me shot 2 of the vaccine -one blood test says one thing the other
blood test says something different. Now they won't answer any questions,
they just want to know when I'm coming in for that shot - I'm in hell!
01:52 AM on 11/10/2010
I had a lump in my throat that I could feel everytime I swallowed. It was a little annoying, but annoying none the less. The doctor couldn't feel it and so dismissed it as psychosomatic. I went to a life screening event where they check your carotid artery, abdominal artery, etc. They found a cyst in my neck. I had it drained by another doctor and haven't had a problem since.

I had my daughter via C-section, and after I had healed, had pain around my belly button. He told me it was adhesions. I suffered for 3 years. A friend told me that it sounded like an umbilical hernia. I told the gyno about it, he laughed and said only babies get those and that it was adhesions. I argued with him that it was more than that, that my life was seriously impeded by this - I couldn't even bend down without tremendous pain and I had 3 kids under the age of 5 at the time- well, he got po'd at me and yelled ' so what do you want? surgery?' I said yes. I think I surprised him. He referred me to a surgeon, who also laughed when I suggested an umbilical hernia. He said it was probably epigastric. He apologized later, my gyno apologized later. It was an umbilical hernia. I suffered for 3 years, my kids suffered for 3 years.

Hard to find a doctor that listens the first time...
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10:45 AM on 11/10/2010
Good for you for sticking up for yourself. Because they are authority figures they really can make us feel crazy... if we let them. I finally realized...Hey this guy doesn't have X-Ray vision!
12:33 AM on 11/12/2010
Medical practitioners are listed under the "service industry", just as car repair is! Get a second opinion, or third, if that's what it takes. Doctors are no better than the last text book they read. I'm so sorry you suffered that long! WE are the only country that puts our doctors on a pedestal and are afraid to question their actions. This has to change. The medical profession is the "last of the untouchables"; we can't sue them, (the Cap laws) we can't question them, for fear they will dump us and not care for us! We need new laws to hold them accountable for their decisions and their actions. We need to make our health care system easier to GET a second opinion. Heck, you'd get a second opinion on repairing your car, (car insurance companies often require multiple assessments) or operating on your dog before you spent a dime!
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katmeyster
Proud practical progressive atheist
01:30 AM on 11/10/2010
It must be nice to have a choice. Yes, I do have insurance, but I live in a city that apparently doesn't have much appeal (read: can't get wealthy) to doctors. Imagine in a nice southwestern city of over 70,000, we have one endocrinologist! I tried to find a gynecologist, but none of them are taking new patients. You essentially have to drive an hour away to get any medical care because we are so devoid of physicians. So, if you somehow find your way into a doctors office, you don't get to "fire" them because you don't have another one to go to. Oh, and because of this environment, most of them need to be fired (incompetence abounds).
thebigbike
ran away to be a cowboy
08:43 PM on 11/09/2010
It's true there are doctors who make too much money, there are also a BIG number of younger ones who are up to their eyeballs in the debt they had to incur to get through med school. Solutions to that anyone? escalating forgivenss of debt for gps, pediatricians, internists, geritatricians whose practice is actually seeing and caring forpatien ts they come to know?

I have had a couple fo doctors with whom I had pretty poor rapport. One almost never actually came past the doorway of the examining room I may be totally off base but I think he was put off by letting him know I was gay right up front. Another was convinced that her priorities for my medical care were absolutely essential and my concerns were trivial. The doctor I have now listens well, seems perceptive and informed . I think he is too new in the HMO to know how to work the system when something out of the ordinary by way of tests is needed. Could be a lot worse. At least I have medical insurance that I can, so far afford, and a plan that allows me a primary care physician I can see more than once.
12:41 AM on 11/12/2010
Could be "a lot worse?!" Our medical care has to get a LOT better. Shame on that doctor for not coming in past the doorway?! Any doctor who thinks your concerns are trivial is not a doctor. I'm sorry, but having a lot of debt because of medical school is not an excuse for being a bad doctor, or a reason to think they are deserving of our unquestioning admiration and devotion. So glad you found at least someone who listens!
But, we all deserve more than that.
08:25 PM on 11/09/2010
I really appreciated this article, and think it has some very valid points. I have luckily learned to be very assertive with my doctors, and make sure that if they are trying to leave the room before answering my questions that I stop them.

One challenge that I have had with my doctor is that nothing is really explained to me. I guess the old schema was that a doctor tells you what to do, and you are supposed to do it. In this modern world of information, what I really want is for the doctor to take 5 minutes to tell me what they think I should do, also tell me why they think I should do the treatment they recommend and the science behind this treatment being effective and other treatments being less effective, and then I can leave with confidence understanding why I am going to do what it is they say is best for my health.
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10:46 AM on 11/10/2010
Their financial model is based on 15 minute visits. That's why they have one hand on the door knob during the entire time. In Europe the waiting rooms aren't as nice, but they take time to talk to you.
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yogajan
Well behaved women rarely make history
08:23 PM on 11/09/2010
Having been on both sides of the topic and recently a heart surgery patient, I have a few thoughts. Most doctors and hospitals need to sort out the computerized medical record thing. Too much time is spent looking at a computer screen and not enough time spent on using observational skills that are taught in school and should be refined through years of experience. Ultimately computerized records will be a good thing, currently, they are getting in the way of precious one on one patient care.
07:56 PM on 11/09/2010
I think my internist is the finest in town. I do not mind the wait .Sometimes the wait is long but often i will call as you suggest and find out he is running late. i also know to take his earliest appointment because he is not behind. He does sit down and talk to you always at eye level. if you have questions or issues so he may run late. He is also the first and earliest visitor to his hospital patients.