A young friend who lives in a small town in a rural state sent me the following observation today:

If the Clintons push for the win in Denver, they're going to split the goddamn party down the middle. I read your chapter on 1968 Chicago, obviously. I'm of the generation who supports Obama. I know what we're like. Shit, I know what I'm like.


Rick, if the Machine tries to give the Clintons the victory at the convention, I swear to God, Chicago's going to look like a Sadie Hawkins dance. People my age are going to be throwing stones. We all have transportation -- cell phones -- disposable income -- the Internet -- free time -- and Seattle as our example. Part of me is scared of a riot. Part of me isn't. The nomination belongs to Obama. Do you think we're going to let the Democratic Leadership Council take it? "God gave Noah the rainbow sign. No more water, fire next time."

He's referring to my forthcoming book Nixonland, about the American civil war that broke out between 1965 and 1972, specifically the chapter about the beatings by Chicago police against both anti-war protesters and anti-war delegates at the 1968 Democratic Convention. I thought it a bit too melodramatic, and didn't take it particularly seriously, though I did pass it on for discussion (with my friend's permission) at a couple of listservs I belong to.

One of them yielded up this response, from an Iraq War vet who works full time in Democratic politics (again, quoted with permission):

Not to mention that there's going to be a significant Iraq veteran contingent at the convention, ready to rock 'n' roll. We've already had planning meetings about it -- we're going about it the same way that we would plan any decent military operation.


Put it this way: if she goes for the gold in Denver, she'll have to claim the medal somewhere other than the Pepsi Center.

I began to take all this a little bit more seriously.

He then added this:

I can't emphasize enough how potentially scary things could get -- we've got folks working on the inside of the convention, and it's all done on a cell basis, so that folks only know what they need to know.


I'm trying to keep everyone calm, as I just mentioned, but it's getting harder and harder to do so. The mood's getting ugly, and if we go to Denver without a nominee, the pressure's going to be intense from without to nominate Obama. She can win the nomination, but it won't be a prize worth having.

I took it more seriously still.

I pass this all on without comment, for superdelegates and my friends in the Hillary Clinton campaign to read, and in categorical abhorrence of anyone who'd contemplate introducing violence as a variable in American civic life.


 

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It strikes me that these people have taken the media accounts of Chicago and Seattle for the real thing. In Chicago, the violence was largely started and perpetrated by the police, and the media reported that the demonstrators started it. The overwhelming majority of protesters in Seattle were non-violent; the reporting focused on the tiny aggressive minority of demonstrators (and a not-so-tiny group of violent police). I think the candidates will probably quell any violence from their supporters. But if there is serious violence among Obama supporters in Denver, it will discredit their candidate. If there is enough violence--or perhaps even only a little--the Bush administration will declare martial law, and it will be all over. Don't give these guys an excuse.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 11:30 AM on 03/09/2008

I hope you immediately contacted the FBI, Mr Perlstein!

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 01:43 AM on 03/09/2008

Who knew that there are so many "Timothy McVeigh" types supporting Obama?
You certainly can't tell by all the "hopeful" and "uplifting" comments the Disciples of Hope leave all over the Internet.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 12:04 AM on 03/08/2008


Thanks for getting rid of that hidiously awful "automatic refresh" -- that's the reason I quit visiting the first time. But now you have medium blue on a grey background for comments -- who thought that was a good idea? Old folks, people with astigmatism or poor vision can't read it very well.

Also, there is no way to enlarge the font. With a larger font the color scheme might be okay. Yes, my prescription is less then a year old.

Bye.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 03:45 AM on 03/08/2008

All of this is assuming that being the Democratic nominee is the only way to go. But as someone noted, this is about a major shift, major change in how we operate in the world, how we "hold ourselves," how we move ahead and evolve.
So...I'd be absolutely delighted if, in the event the party takes the "low road" in Denver...those who desire to support this New Vision...encourage Barack and Michelle to go the way of a Third Party.
(Personally, I think the country is sooooo ready for it. And I truly believe...he cound win.)
Why do things "the old way" re: threats, intimidation, etc.? That's not what his candidacy is about, anyway. How about channeling this incredible wave of "connection" across ages, genders, orientations, geographic locales, vocations, incomes...into something glorious and grand?
Besides, "fighting against" something only creates more of the same. "Flowing with" something...creates a stream of greatness that cannot be stopped.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 10:40 PM on 03/07/2008

Oh I see. So we're being threatened with violence if the voters continute speak out for Hillary? Is that how it goes? We're supposed to be afraid of thugs now? Get off your high horses and stop deluding yourself into believeing that this is the freakin' American Revoltion. It's not. It's a bunch of people raised on video game and movie violence, who just registered to vote, and think they know what America needs.

Your candidate is a fraud. Plain and simple. You're all willing to go to jail or die for a guy that gets his words from a middle-aged white media consultant. Yeah, that's really revolutionary. These nutjob comments that are featured here are not the only ones out there.. they're multiplying all over the internet. I'm sorry, but I have a hard time thinking these people are so devoted to democracy as to threaten violence to get their weak candidate in office.

Movement? Yeah, right. It's be so impressive to hear these 'give me obama or give me death' types if he actually stood for something. Which he does not. I think that the Obama supporters that were caught on tape screaming at people during the caucuses, and the threats by these thugs, are only going to guarantee that NO ONE will vote for him even if you manage to strongarm the nomination. He can't win the General Election with a handful of his little army (or whatever the hell you call yourselves now.) You can kiss even the slightest bit moderate voter behind.

We will not be intimidated. You're underestimating the Super Delegates and the voters, and America. Obama needs to rein his supporters in, pronto.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 04:36 PM on 03/07/2008

So this is the "New Politics?" The result of the "Unity" campaign? Democrats threatening other Democrats when the most divisive force in this country has been George Bush? It sounds as if the majority of posters here need a refresher course in the US Constitution.

For the Iraq War vets, maybe you should take a look at the Samantha Powers video where she says Obama has no intention off standing by his comments regarding withdrawal of American troops from Iraq. Given the past week's events, it seems entirely likely that the Obama campaign will have imploded by the time Denver rolls around. ..and does anyone believe that threats will benefit Obama? I would imagine most Americans will not be coerced by these tactics.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 03:57 PM on 03/07/2008

I really hope the FBI is monitoring the threats of domestic terrorism on this site and that the whole lot of you get put in time out because you are acting like a bunch on tired toddlers in need of a spanking. Grow up, get a life, work for peace by being peaceful!

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 03:03 PM on 03/07/2008

The british troops also weren't negotiated or, mediated out during the War for the US-Independence. If something really gets nasty, one has to be prepared for it. If the Clinton-Campaign should REALLY try to secure the nomination for Hillary against the majority of the democratic electorate - represented by Obama's mayority of pledged delegates - the DNC will get what they deserve: The Denver-Tea-Party.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 12:27 PM on 03/07/2008

So if these spoiled brats don't get their way they're going to beat us? Latte liberals acting like skinheads. I always objected when centrists said that the far left is as bad as the far right. I stand corrected.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 11:49 AM on 03/07/2008

What makes you assume this guy is a "far leftist"?

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 02:22 PM on 03/08/2008

What's not to understand? This is life and death for these young people, and for the Iraq war vets. They see a political shill (Clinton) that was willing to put them in Iraq in first place with her politically expedient war vote. Now they see that same woman trying destroying the candidate that is most likely to end their tours in Iraq.

This is life and death.

As for the first quote... I'm telling you, this current generation does NOT believe in non-violent civil disobedience. And they are ready to explode. And trust me, they know about the 60's peace movement. They know how little flower loving tree hugging hippies actually accomplished.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 11:04 AM on 03/07/2008

Yeah the peace movement sure did a lot for America in the 1960s with their anti-violence focus.

The only way the left is EVER going to get ahead in this country is if the wealthy fear for their lives.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 10:57 AM on 03/07/2008

Oh please. If you must go to Denver, please study MLK and learn about civil disobedience. Be disciplined and non-violent. Not simply angry. I hope it doesn't come to this for several reasons: 1) it will resolve nothing. 2) democrats will lose in November. 3) democrats will have squandered all of this energy and enthusiasm for their party.

But in fact, I fear the machine is corrupt. The party elders are the only ones with the power right now to resolve all of this-- it's time for super delegates to commit their votes-- we already know Clinton can't catch Obama on voter delegates. At best she won 5-10 in her BIG victory Tuesday. The longer this drags on the more divisive and angry voters will become. And it's a shame folks. The anarchy is within the system, not outside with a bunch of yahoos.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 09:32 AM on 03/07/2008

A cogent comment.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 11:50 PM on 03/07/2008

Not sure about the "riot in the streets" scenario, but rest assured the Democratic Party will implode and a significant percentage of the 13 million who have voted for Obama will abandon ship. The end result? A nomination for Hillary Clinton that will be as useless as the scorched earth she's leaving in her wake.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 06:53 PM on 03/06/2008

This is not called a "movement" for nothing. This is very real.

We all know that going to Washington with torches and pitchforks is fun to imagine but unrealistic. Not so with Denver. We're looking at the 40th anniversary of 68, we are at war, we are really pissed off already and we are not going to accept an outcome that appears to go against the will of the people.

This argument about Michigan and Florida is another example of an underhanded tactic (I am in FL myself). Rules are rules, everyone agreed, the vote that did occur was known by everyone, in advance, as futile, but now they want to change the rules that would unfailry skew the numbers. Bullshit! They can pillory the DNC for a lot of things, but Dean's right on this one. I want my vote to count but I want it counted fairly. The Florida primary was not fair.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 12:01 PM on 03/06/2008

I'd rather have violence in the convention center in Denver -- hell, I'd rather have Armageddon -- than a bunch of corrupt pols overturning the will of the voters and handing the nomination to a candidate whose comeback has rested solely on negative ads and ugly politicking.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 11:22 AM on 03/06/2008

ding! ding! ding!!

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 10:58 AM on 03/07/2008

It's interesting that the people most upset with the Democratic Party are Democrats. Given the inaction of the Democratic Congress on issues they ran on in the 2006 election, however, it shouldn't be surprising. The common theme between that wasted election and what is shaping up to be another, is the frustration of voters with the perfidy of officials within their own party, elected or not.

Just how many lies are voters expected to swallow? And make no mistake about it, discarding the will of voters is a lie, probably the most profound lie a politician can attempt.

Can the Democratic Party survive two wasted elections, two examples in a row of hijacking voter sentiment to serve the leadership's own private purposes? Time, as they say, will tell.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 10:20 AM on 03/06/2008

I agree.

After 2000 when Gore's victory was STOLEN by the Supreme Court, true Democrats will not abide by another stolen election.

Superdelegates beware.

DNC beware.

You could lose the entire African American community and under 30 contigent.

I am sure Hillary would destroy the party for her own ego and greed. But why on earth woudl the DNC play along and let her destroy them?????

She practically endorsed McCain the other day!

She is committing fratricide against the likely nominee wih her fear and smear tactics.

I am increasingly angry with a DNC whih is enabling this.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 11:03 AM on 03/06/2008

Neither one of these candidates has enough delegates to secure the nomination yet, so threatening anyone with violence (and yes, this is a threat) is akin to holding the nomination process hostage.

I have no idea what you are trying to accomplish, except maybe to inform us that your friends are idiots, by posting drivel like this, but I can tell you what the result might be. I have voted a straight Democratic ticket for 25 years. I have worked hard to campaign for Democratic candidates. And I have never thought I would ever vote anything but a straight Democratic ticket. I am done.

Let me tell all you passionate warriors out there: There is no difference between them worth fighting over, and even if there were, it is at least four years too late. The days when it might have made a difference are gone. If a dyed-in-the-wool Democrat like me is starting to see the certifiable nut John McCain as the voice of reason in this campaign season then we are in serious trouble.

Remember this: The Democratic Party, and that includes BOTH Clinton and Obama, let the Bush train wreck happen. They have betrayed their base and their country with their politics of appeasement. Are you really willing to go to jail for them? Let them crash and burn on their own. Maybe something respectable will rise from their ashes.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 08:49 AM on 03/06/2008

My friend, there are differences. Clinton accepts money from PACs and lobbyists. Obama does not. Clinton voted for war in Iraq. Clinton served on the board of Walmart which does not pay its workers fairly, and buys all of its merchandise from third world countries that employ child labor and treat workers like slaves. Obama was an inner city organizer. This is a referendum on twenty years of bad politics that go back to the Clinton. Two very distinct choices here: business as usual, return to the past, or create a new future. Young people are not idiots. They see all of the debt, and destruction that has been left to them--

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 09:16 AM on 03/07/2008

Bill Clinton has taken lots of money from the Dubai government, but he is still an American, as far as I know.

Bill Clinton lobbied to put our U.S. ports in the hands of the United Arab Emirates, but he is not a traitor, as far as I know.

The $5 million Hillary and Bill loaned her campaign was certainly money from Arabs, but it wasn't from Osama Bin Laden, as far as I know.

Hillary endorsed McCain over Obama, but she is still a Democrat, as far as I know.

Hillary is fighting to destroy the Democratic Party and ensure a Republican victory in the fall, but she is a good person, as far as I know.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 06:05 AM on 03/06/2008

Crap, this is getting uglier and uglier. Everyone please calm down.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 03:42 AM on 03/06/2008

That sounds like what the media told us in Florida in 2000.

Look where graciousness and calming down got us!

NO MORE STOLEN ELECTIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 11:03 AM on 03/06/2008

No more selections.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 11:23 AM on 03/07/2008

Apocalypse now (or this summer)? Let's say Hillary wins. Think for a bit about all those Obama voters - sure, a majority will accept Hillary as the nominee, especially the vast majority of us that really don't think that much about politics (otherwise, how 8 years of GWB? huh?).

What will very seriously die, for a while, is the first positive political ideality that has emerged in the United States since John Kennedy. The narrative that dies is this: A bright, inspired "young" politician, whose ideality is centered around re-integrating American society, is trying for an end to the cultural war we've been fighting nationally since 1967. Maybe he'll succeed in making this a more peaceful world.

So great, we opt for Hillary, a familiarity, a known force, very intelligent and very angry at a lot of people. Is it time for this American president to take on all those Special Interests, when she was on Wallmart's board for so very long....and voted for Iraq? What, frankly, is up with that, in and as the next President of the United States, seriously? If she' a Clinton, though, and, well, that's a quality brand, right? It has been.

Sure the Right hates her, and now she's got all these odd - pure or druggie - lefties like me who now fundamentally disrespect her. If nut-jobs or a righteous popular mob make the Convention complicated, so be it. What's she's really lost is the American counterculture, which still exists in a very dynamic, energized, state, however socially atomized it appears, as a voting bloc.

That's the price, Bill & Hillary, for doing a dirty, negative, aberrant, campaign. You've run on the princilple that Hope must be Doubted. So whatever whirlwind opens, it's your baby. You knew better than to have done this - if it happens, that is.

Maybe, even probably, Obama will get it, after all. So.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 12:23 AM on 03/06/2008

As one who lived through 68', I saw those with the same Bush/Cheney mindset "quell" the rioters, who only tore up our neighborhoods, colleges, veterans who objected to Vietnam-treated as traitors, losers of a war they didn't ask for. If you want to riot, do it against the people voted in office, make them accountable for votes/actions. MAKE them prosecute the agitators(Cheney/Rove/Rumsfeld/Ashcroft/Powell, then Rice, and Gonzales), for treason against reason, using war for personal gain. A former jarhead, and hoodrat by choice - don't mind a good scrap, and turn my cheek for no man. But, you guys that served know that nothing good comes from aimless fire, and sometimes words and non-violent action strike deeper than physical outbursts. Why would you sully your honor over some slimy office pogues mechanizations? I've been "ready" for almost 50yrs.,bros., if Barack is, he is......hold the line, keep your silhouette low - and CHILL!!

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 12:15 AM on 03/06/2008

Listen up kiddies, there's a grown-up talkin' to ya' here.
Excellent comment...........I'd venture to say.....outSTANDing! Regards..................................tm

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 07:04 AM on 03/06/2008

This is not a good image. Attempting to achieve the nomination through intimidation and threats of violence. That's a sterotype that is not attractive to bring out.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 11:09 PM on 03/05/2008

It would help if Hillary and Obama would show us how well they can attack Brain Dead McCain instead of each other.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 11:00 PM on 03/05/2008

And what will Obama do if violence breaks out in an attempt to force his nomination? We know what Hillary would do - lock down. Will Obama ask his followers to stay calm and accept whatever the outcome of the convention is? Here's an idea - they both offer to step down and call for a nomination of Gore.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 09:38 PM on 03/05/2008

Here here,

and if they truely had the best interest of the party, they would do it now as they are both incapable of uniting the party at this point.

they have become liabilities more than anything else

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 09:41 PM on 03/05/2008

That would be "Hear, hear". "Truly".

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 10:43 AM on 03/06/2008

And Hillary is the fearmongerer? If she is, she pales in comparison.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 09:36 PM on 03/05/2008