The governing bodies of two of the largest mainline Protestant denominations in the country -- the Presbyterian Church and the Episcopal Church -- recently issued decisions that reflect the swiftly shifting landscape on same-sex marriage, gay rights and the white mainline Protestant community. The debates were driven not only by the need for clarity in internal church matters such as ordination, but also by the need to provide guidance to clergy who serve congregants in the growing number of states where gay and lesbian couples are allowed to marry legally.
At its biannual conference, the General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church (USA) debated for more than three hours before narrowly rejecting a bid to modify the definition of marriage in the church constitution as "a covenant between two people." As a result, Presbyterian clergy who officiate at gay weddings, even in states that allow gay couples to marry, continue to risk censure by the denomination. The composition of the vote, however, illustrated sharp generational divides that signal an impending shift away from an exclusively heterosexual definition of marriage. The overall vote was 338 to 308, with two abstentions. But notably, seminary students and young adult delegates (whose votes were strictly advisory) voted overwhelmingly in favor of modifying the definition of marriage to afford local pastors the option of including gay and lesbian couples (82 percent and 75 percent support respectively).
Meanwhile, at the Episcopal Church's triennial General Convention, the church's House of Deputies voted to change the church's "nondiscrimination canons" to include "gender identity and expression," a move that forbids discrimination against candidates for the priesthood who are transgender. The next day, the same body voted to approve a new liturgy for blessing same-sex unions, which the Episcopal Church already allows at the discretion of local priests.
The Presbyterian Church's narrow vote, and the Episcopal Church's two shifts in policy, herald a wider change among white mainline Protestants, who are increasingly in favor of expanded rights for gay and lesbian people, including same-sex marriage. Recent PRRI polling reveals that a majority (51 percent) of white mainline Protestants favor allowing gay and lesbian couples to marry legally, while 57 percent agree that gay and lesbian people should be eligible for ordination as clergy with no special requirements. Nearly three-quarters (73 percent) of white mainline Protestants say that if the place of worship they usually attend decided to allow blessings of gay and lesbian couples, they would continue to attend, while only one-quarter (23 percent) say they would look for another church. And 9-in-10 (90 percent) white mainline Protestants agree that transgender people deserve the same rights and protections as other Americans.
The generational divides in the Presbyterian vote also suggest that for churches who are interested in keeping younger members in the pews, strong opposition to equal rights for gay and lesbian Americans may an be increasingly difficult stance. Strong generational divides on same-sex marriage persist in the general population, with two-thirds (67 percent) of Millennials (age 18 to 29) supporting same-sex marriage, compared to about 1-in-3 (32 percent) seniors (age 65 and up). There is some awareness of the potential for more conservative stances on gay and lesbian issues to estrange young adults from churches: half (50 percent) of white mainline Protestants overall agree that religious groups are alienating young people by being too judgmental about gay and lesbian issues. The perception that Christianity itself is opposed to gay rights is also strongly felt among young adults: according to the 2012 Millennial Values Survey, 55 percent of white mainline Protestant younger Millennials (age 18 to 24) say that "anti-gay" describes present-day Christianity somewhat or very well.
White mainline Protestant denominations like the Presbyterian Church (USA) and the Episcopal Church continue to hold an influential place in America's religious landscape. Despite the Presbyterian Church's ultimate decision to maintain an exclusively heterosexual definition of marriage in its constitution, the strength of its younger members in demanding a broader definition of marriage signals that a shift may only be a matter of time. Meanwhile, the Episcopal Church continues at the vanguard of mainline Protestant denominations who are broadening their support for same-sex clergy and laity. Going forward, it will be instructive to see how these American religious bodies navigate the coming sea change on attitudes led by their younger American members toward more inclusive policies with regard to same-sex relationships, which often puts them in tension with older members and some segments of their international communion.
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Kevin Miller: You're a Christian, Right? No, I'm a Christian ... Left
People voting on those issues vote from conviction and not from whether or not they will fill the pews.
Secondly, there are very few churches that are prospering and growing in membership that accept gay relationships. The Metropolitan Church is extremely localized and its membership is stagnant.
Non-denominational churches that seem to be the most successful in attracting young members, single and married, are not hospitable places for the gay life style.
It appears that the divide between the churches and American society on the LGBT issue is growing and with the increasing obduracy on both sides of the chasm there doesn't appear to be any large chance of a shift in the near future.
Why is it people READILY accept standards they expect other people to follow and yet think they can twist God's standards? To be a doctor, lawyer, pilot, judge, CEO, whatever.. We expect people to meet certain qualifications. Why would God be any different?
Anyone who denies God's biblical standards and principles and yet calls themselves "christian", is just lying to themselves.
Finally, if you DONT to follow the scriptures, why not just start your own religion? It'll be EMPTY just like your form of "christianity" but at least it you can write it for yourself. Then you dont have to worry about the parts of the bible you dont like.
Jesus said, "Not everyone saying to me 'Lord, lord' will enter into the kingdom. But the one DOING THE WILL OF MY FATHER who is in the heavens WILL."
All Christians in every sect and denomination choose the parts of the Bible they don't want to follow. There is not a single denomination of Christians anywhere that follow the entire Bible and every single rule in it. And every denomination that exists today is the result of people who have just started their own religion, as you so quaintly put it. And do you imagine that they consider their religion "empty"? Of course not.
Part of the greatness of this country is that we have the freedom to decide which version of Christianity we will follow or even if we want to follow any version at all. But the sad thing is when you think that anyone who doesn't believe identically to you in every detail is "empty".
1. Man is imperfect2. There are wicked forces in opposition to God.
If these two factors did not exist, then ALL would follow Gods rule. But to ignore this simply explains all the denominations of christianity and all the other religions as well.
Obviously, the wicked spirit forces in opposition to God DO NOT want us to know the truth about him.
I already KNEW the answer to my question. I just wanted to see what others might say. And you answered just as I assumed.
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: {it is} the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast". (Ephesians 2:8-9)
It often seems that mainstream Christians are far more concerned about gay marriage and the threat (as they see it) of tolerating gay lifestyles, than they are about young children not receiving adequate health care or nutrition or 50% of straight marriages ending in divorce.
I suspect that, if mainstream Christianity adheres to these policies of intolerance and disrespect for others, it will be seen by more and more people as irrelevant to their lives.
It's quite telling that these liberal sects begin bleeding members as the pew sitters eventually figure out what's going on. It's the oldest con game in the world and not much different than old fashioned simony as practiced by Tetzel in the Middle ages.
I don't think that liberal Christianity can really work. Once people get too far out they generally just leave the church anyway.
Yes, it is only a matter of time until the younger generation favors same-sex marriage. We have been conditioning our young people to accept homosexuality and will continue to do so until they are the majority. But the majority is not always right. There were eight people in the Ark and the rest of the population was in the water in the story of Noah. Those in the water were perverse and the land was filed with violence as our land is. In the story of Lot there were not 10 righteous people in Sodom and Gomorrah. If those people could have voted to marry and ordain the gays they would vote yes. They were the majority.
Author of A Law from Eden
jordanriverpress.com
It is illogical to believe all those in the water were homosexual. It is illogical to believe all those in Sodom and Gomorrah were homosexuals. But all were given to unnatural sex, oral and anal sex. This type of sex is forbidden for all people including a man and his wife.
Col. 3:18, “Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, ® as it is fit in the Lord. The cross reference sends me to “® Eph 5:3: "But fornication, and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not be once named among you." The sex of Sodom and Gomorrah is called fornication. Jude 1:7, “Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them…giving themselves over to fornication…” Wives should not commit the sex of Sodom and Gomorrah with their husbands.
The Greek word for fornication is Porneia and it means: Illicit (forbidden) sexual intercourse, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals, and incest. This was the sin Adam and Eve committed. God forbids man to commit fornication --1Cor 6:13, “The body is not made for fornication, but for the Lord.”
Author of A Law from Eden
jordanriverpress.com
First put the first coming of Jesus in the last days where the Bible tells us he will be.
Then look at what he comes to do.
He comes to teach righteousness.
He comes to convince man of sin.
For some reason nankind will not believe that oral sex is sin and must be convinced.
He comes to bring heaven to earth. The end of sin will do that.
He comes with a law and that law will be for all those who fell for oral sex. The law will be for Sodom and Gomorrah which includes all people who commit oral sex.
Isa. 1:10, Hear the word of the Lord, Ye rulers of Sodom: Give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.”
The law is light for a world in darkness.
The law is life to give life to the spiritually dead.
The Law is a fire -- the only fire the wicked will be burned up by. It is not a literal fire.
God is good and will bring deliverance. He will put our sins in the sea of his forgetfulness.
When all return to the ways of God we will be saints.
“But fornication…let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints, Eph 5:3.” If you call yourself a Christian you cannot commit fornication even once.
In the last days there will be only a few left who are just and that is why so many churches are in favor of marrying and ordaining the gays. The Bible has much to say about both the just and the unjust. "The mouth of the just bringeth forth wisdom." "The path of the just is as a shining light, that shineth more and more to a perfect day." "The tongue of the just is as choice silver." "Who is wise?...the ways of the Lord are right and the just shall walk in them; but the transgressors shall fall therein".
The opposite is true of the unjust, those given to unnatural sex. The unjust will never speak wisdom until they return to the truth of God. They will never find the way to a perfect day unless they have help.
"Except the Lord of Hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom and we should have been like unto Gomorrah, Isa. 1:9." A remnant is left at the end. At the end of this age there will be only a few just people. If they were all gone truth would never be spoken on earth again and no one would know the way to a better day.
It shows us what the just are like. What Jesus is like for Jesus is just. The unjust are not like Jesus.
Characteristics of the just:
Pro. 10:20, "The tongue of the just is as choice silver"
Pro. 10:31, "The mouth of the just bringeth forth wisdom."
Pro. 4:18, “But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day
Pro. 9:9, “Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser: teach a just man, and he will increase in learning."
Hos. 14:9, “Who is wise…the ways of the Lord are right and the just shall walk in them: but the transgressors shall fall therein.
The opposite is true of the unjust.
They will never find a better day unless they get help.
They will never speak wisdom unless they return to the wisdom of the just.
There is no truth in them for they believed a lie.
The purpose of Jesus is to give them help, light, and to show them the way to a better day.
And the organized religions have time and again revealed their moral bankruptcy in their mistreatment of women, other religions, and LGBTs. In fact, mainstream Christianity and Islam's inability to adjust to the fact that homosexuality is both normal and natural is revealing just how destructive archaic faith traditions can be. The emperor had no clothes. The younger generations see this. That's a good thing. They are developing new ways of being "spiritual but not religious." They are able to feel connected to the vastness of the universe without all the nonsensical baggage that comes with the organized religions.
+David A, Alvarez, Bishop
Episcopal Diocese of Puerto Rico
only 16 votes out of about 600+ resulted in their not apporving a gay marriage ceremony. It took them 2 -3 conventions to pass the rules allowing gay ministers in relationships
Sure they will lose some people, but the lsit of those people will be valuable to those who sell funeral plots -its always the old geezers that are the rpoblem.
Vilification of the "other" is one of the oldest community-building tools. We define the community by defining the outsider; it is much easier to isolate and exclude than it is to integrate and adapt.
By oppression we also establish the social order. By identifying and exaggerating certain characteristics of the outsider, whether real or imagined (or invented), and establishing those characteristics as alien and therefore objectionable, we demonstrate leadership ability. Those most adept at generating antipathy toward the outsider rise most quickly through the social ranks, and attain the highest offices.
As a society, we must perpetuate bigotry in every form. To do otherwise is to engineer the collapse of civilization!
i guess i can semi-see where you're going with this, but overall i just have to disagree. oppressing people is not a good idea. Ever.
i get what you're saying about "the Other" --> how humans will always have some form of suspicion, lack of trust, or guardedness with regards to "the Other", whoever that "Other" happens to be at the moment.
BUT, we need BALANCE. the belligerent members of our communities need to be constrained & balanced with a sense of Compassion, Empathy, Justice, and Love.
LOVE, because all of us are trying to figure out this Life, this Human Experience. we all know what it is to suffer individually -- we know what suffering feels like, and that it doesn't feel good -- so we must have Compassion for All Beings.
your way of thinking will lead us down a path to global warfare & genocide. now that humans have discovered atomic bombs & other weapons of mass destruction, we can't live in the ultra-competitive & selfish way that you are promoting. biological Life on Earth as we know it will be destroyed if we go down your path!
we must choose the Path of Compassion, Forgiveness, Understanding, Acceptance, & LOVE!