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Sandy Goodman

Sandy Goodman

Posted April 27, 2009 | 02:23 AM (EST)

Torture Revelations Will Leave the Left Frustrated


Now that everybody else has had a say about Bush's torture policy and what to do about it here are a few thoughts from me.

I wonder why the world's once-most-secretive man, Cheney, who is now pleading to have the government declassify memos he says show how well torture works, didn't simply order their declassification or have them leaked when he was vice president. It isn't as though he couldn't have easily done so, or that the controversy is new: Abu Ghraib and all those damning pictures came to light five long years ago, and the arguments over torture have raged ever since.
Cheney had almost five years to declassify those documents but never did.

I, too, would like those memos released. That Cheney didn't do so when he could is powerful evidence that they don't prove his point. To date, I've seen no compelling evidence that torture prevented any attacks on the United States after Sept. 11, 2001. That doesn't mean I don't believe that torture sometimes works. Sen. John McCain and other American POWs in Vietnam, have admitted being broken by torture to make "confessions" and propaganda statements. I can't believe that some of them didn't also provide the enemy with useful information.

More to the point, I do believe statements by intelligence officials like former CIA chief Michael Hayden, who told Fox News that what he euphemistically called enhanced interrogation techniques have resulted in "specific, actionable intelligence as well as a general increase in the amount of intelligence regarding Al Qaeda and its affiliates." Current intelligence czar Dennis Blair says much the same thing.

But, again, one big unanswered question is whether torture prevented more attacks on U.S. soil. Release of more memos might strengthen the present, very thin evidence, but it would take a lot to convince me. Especially given such adverse comments as those by FBI director Robert Mueller that "I don't believe that has been the case;" and former FBI supervisory agent Ali Soufani, who questioned Abu Zubayda for four months using traditional methods, and wrote in the New York Times:

Under traditional interrogation methods, he provided us with important actionable intelligence. We discovered, for example, that Khalid Shaikh Mohammed was the mastermind of the 9/11 attacks,
something Bush administration officials claim came out only under "enhanced" interrogation
...There was no actionable intelligence gained from using enhanced interrogation techniques on Abu Zubaydah that wasn't, or couldn't have been, gained from regular tactics. In addition, I saw that using these alternative methods on other terrorists backfired on more than a few occasions -- all of which are still classified.

Any release of additional torture memos ought to include those about "backfired" cases. Even more important than whether torture prevented attacks is the question of whether it ought to have been used at all, even if it did. The international and U.S. laws against torture do not contain exceptions making it permissible after terrorist attacks. In its more than 200 years of existence, this country has fought a dozen wars and other conflicts but has rarely been accused of torturing prisoners -and on some rare occasions when it has, Americans have been punished for it. Way back in 1775, George Washington famously told his men that injuring a prisoner might bring them the death penalty "for by such conduct they bring shame, disgrace and ruin to themselves and their country."

Besides its being a war crime, the historic American abhorrence against torturing war prisoners is another reason Bush never called our terrorist suspects "prisoners," referring to them instead as "detainees," as if that would make torturing them permissible. We have fought wars in Afghanistan for eight years and in Iraq for six and, astonishingly, to my knowledge, we have done so without taking a single prisoner of war, with the exception of a relatively few Iraqi soldiers in the first month or so of that war. [I am happy to be corrected if I am wrong about that. But have you ever heard of any other Enemy POWs, a common term in past conflicts?].

Everybody (yes everybody) agrees that torture is illegal, immoral and just plain wrong. That includes Bush and Cheney and their cohorts, who, all the while they tortured, felt compelled to lie by insisting that "the United States doesn't torture," despite the judgment of the Red Cross, and irrefutable evidence from the newly released memos (and more older ones) and the testimony of dozens of victims and participants.

Not only is torture wrong but is has proved a major recruiting tool for Al Qaida and a major killer of American soldiers. As one veteran interrogator who goes by the pseudonym Matthew Alexander - wrote in The Daily Beast:

I listened time and time again to captured foreign fighters cite the torture and abuse at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo as their main reason for coming to Iraq to fight. Consider that 90 percent of the suicide bombers in Iraq are these foreign fighters and you can easily conclude that we have lost hundreds, if not thousands, of American lives because of our policy of torture and abuse.

And that doesn't include future U.S. casualties. Then there's the possibly irreversible damage torture has done to this country's reputation in the world. Whatever American exceptionalism existed regarding human rights is now a myth. Nor can we credibly complain about any foreign dictator torturing dissidents. And, as our military leaders have long feared, any complaints about American service members (or even civilians) being tortured abroad won't be taken seriously from now on. (Can you believe that a few days into the Iraq war, Bush and Rumsfeld complained that the Iraqis released tv pictures of American dead, wounded and POWs? "The Geneva Convention makes it illegal for prisoners of war to be shown and pictured and humiliated," Rumsfeld said, "it's something the United States does not do...we treat our prisoners well.")

So, what should Obama do about all this? And what he will do? Bush, Cheney and the other leading officials who ordered torture or issued legal opinions supporting it ought to be investigated and if found legally liable, indicted, tried, and, if convicted, punished. But clearly, that's not going to happen. Obama is not prepared to divide the country still further and take important time and energy away from the effort to end the Bush Depression and establish badly-needed health, energy and education policies, among others. (Maybe Obama should release or pardon the few small fry torturers now being punished since the big fish will get away)

Congress or somebody else may appoint a commission or two to investigate--but to no prosecutorial end. And, as I've written before, no way will Obama permit any Bush officials to be prosecuted abroad. Remember, even the lowliest U.S. private soldier serving abroad is protected by status of forces agreements from being punished by a host country for carrying out official duties. And, however illegal or immoral, torture was an official duty ordered by Bush.

The most likely outcome of this whole business will be that nobody will be punished (I don't even think the Senate will try for, much less accomplish, the simplest punitive step, a two-thirds vote to remove Judge Bybee from office). And the failure to punish those responsible for torture will become, for those of us on the left, the equivalent of right-wing complaints against abortion, stem cell research and gay marriage. There will continue to be much fuss, but no satisfaction. I hope I'm wrong.

Now that everybody else has had a say about Bush's torture policy and what to do about it here are a few thoughts from me. I wonder why the world's once-most-secretive man, Cheney, who is now plead...
Now that everybody else has had a say about Bush's torture policy and what to do about it here are a few thoughts from me. I wonder why the world's once-most-secretive man, Cheney, who is now plead...
 
 
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07:11 AM on 05/01/2009
Please enlighten me.

What exactly were the torture techniques employed at Guantanamo(and Abu Ghraib for that matter)?

Stripping people naked, making sleep difficult for them, pouring water down their noses and throwing bugs at them seems kind of weak. Some fraternity hazings are tougher. Are there any reports of getting medieval on them(i.e. pliers and blowtorches)? If not, cry me a river.
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05:55 PM on 04/27/2009
...then there's the International community.
02:18 PM on 04/27/2009
Sandy Goodman thinks nothing will happen to Bush, Cheney et al, since Barack Owimpa is to gutless to go after them. All the torturers must be held to account. A special prosecutor must be named to examine the past crimes - this would be indepenent of all the other Obama actions, and will not slow down Obama's work on the economy, the environment, or health care. In a more perfect world, Bush and Cheney would be waterboarded 183 times in a month and then thrown into prison for life.
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JakeMontero
Independent thinking
09:14 PM on 04/27/2009
so you are for torture... and in a sense you are just like them. :shameful:
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flossophy
the unfamous anti-establishment classical liberal
06:48 AM on 04/28/2009
Interesting point. I've been noticing this sentiment.
DocWylie
microbio with herbs..yumm
02:05 PM on 04/27/2009
It would dovetail nicely with the system of American justice if individuals were in fact held accountable for their actions, and it would go a long way toward deterrance of this sort of bad berhavior in the future if lives were politically and financially ruined and perhaps even freedom challanged.
Perhaps this might even damper much cynacism many citizens maintain about the state of accountability amongst say... Wall street bankers for instance.
But despite the denials, pathetic justifications, calls to move on etc. this issue is a CANCER in the Republican party, and no amount of snake medicine is going to cure it.
Without the support of Indy's and moderates, liberal Republicans and a few "blue dog" Democrats, the right wing becomes irrelevent, and thus the Republican party becomes to quote Macbeth:

...but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.
01:54 PM on 04/27/2009
I am leery of prosecutions and trials on this. It could turn into another Iran-contra debacle. A real media sideshow with no satisfying conclusions. The Republicans are desperate for an issue to rally around. Let's not hand them one on a silver platter.

http://www.raeoflyte.blogspot.com
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flossophy
the unfamous anti-establishment classical liberal
06:51 AM on 04/28/2009
Just the fact that this Congress wants to pursue predecessors on crimes, makes one worry about the Latin Americanization of our government.

Criminalizing politics is not a good precedent to make.

This is all being used as a political t00l to keep Bush in the headlines as Obama fumbles the next few weeks.
01:01 PM on 04/27/2009
Republicans are all about law and order, unless they're the culprits/perpetrators. Where's all the braying about "upholding the rule of law" now? And don't go on about whether it "worked" cause if I robbed a bank, and presented as my defense, that it worked because I got the money I needed to make me rich, I would rightly be laughed out of court.
12:56 PM on 04/27/2009
President Obama is attempting to follow a Lincolnesque script (remember he read Kearns Goodwin's "Team of Rivals") walking a middle road between fanatics on both sides of horribly complex political, legal and moral issues to lead the country slowly towards a "more perfect union." It ultimately did not go so well for Lincoln as he died a tragic martyr to his attempted moderate, yet ultimately revolutionary progressivism. And we took another 100 years to accomplish the legal civil rights due our African-American citizens and still struggle with true equality. Yet in spite of all the historical injustices and delays, we have made progress in race relations and hopefully will continue to do so.
Torture is wrong if anything is wrong - to paraphrase Lincoln, and horrible conflict can come from addressing institutional evil. I am agonizing over the right response to the revelations coming forth that we apparently tortured to extract confessions justifying our ill-conceived war in Iraq. I hope and pray that we will find the right way forward and that way is best guided by recourse to the process of Constitutional government. We have already accomplished an electoral repudiation of bush/cheneyism. Obama may just be the next Lincoln and would be even greater than Lincoln if he can help us move forward towards that "more perfect union" without Civil War and his own ultimate self sacrifice.
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rmax53
The GOP can't help itself.
11:33 AM on 04/27/2009
I guess we will have to be satisfied with the knowledge that Bush will forever be the Torture President. So much for his "legacy."
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ProfessorDuh
11:20 AM on 04/27/2009
In recent years, the Washington political dynamic has often resembled an abusive marriage, in which the bullying husband (the Republicans) slaps the wife and kids around, and the battered wife (the Democrats) makes excuses and hides the ugly bruises from outsiders to keep the family together.
So, when the Republicans are in a position of power, they throw their weight around, break the rules, and taunt: “Whaddya gonna do ‘bout it?”
Then, when the Republicans do the political equivalent of passing out on the couch, the Democrats use their time in control, tiptoeing around, tidying up the house and cringing at every angry grunt from the snoring figure on the couch.
— Robert Parry
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10:37 AM on 04/27/2009
yawn, sounds like a centrist, pragmatic argument rather than one based on liberal democratic principles...
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ProfessorDuh
09:57 AM on 04/27/2009
First, just let the truth come out. Then history and humanity can judge, and reality will have its way with the American torturers.
09:32 AM on 04/27/2009
Folks,

I hope youwill bear with me as I am so frustrated by how Lynndie England and the other Reservists' voices are not allowed to tell their COMPLETE story, without the military or government, or even classist spin on it. The only "crime" Lynndie was actually sentenced for was "being in photographs". Lynndie did not work at the hard site. She was not a guard at AG - she was a clerk, a young 20 year old, who was in love with Graner an MP/guard at the hard site. What was her downfall? Being young and stupid and visiting her then boyfriend, against orders, at the prison. If you look at the leash picture, she looks totally uninterested, because she wasn't. She simply stepped into that picture for Graner so that he could document what "Gus was doing. There was someone else in that photo, someone who Graner cropped out for a reason.

If you are interested in helping Lynndie (who can't even get job at a burger joint due to her felon status) please go out and buy her only authorized biography by Gary Winkler, Appalachian-genre writer, who grew up in the same area of WV that Lynndie did. The book will be released on June 1 and the title is "Tortured: Lynndie England, Abu Ghraib, and the Photographs that Shocked the World". It is being published by "Bad Apple Books". We will have our website up and running in a couple more weeks.
03:47 PM on 04/27/2009
I was thinking about her recently and hope that the conviction can be overturned. My heart goes out to her as well as to the people in those photos. She was the 'fall guy' and we all knew it. They threw a bone to us and saved themselves. Sickening. Bush and Cheney should be in jail.
09:05 AM on 04/27/2009
General Hayden , Porter Goss, and anyone else working in government should know better than to try and defend the indefensible. Torture is just that, those who engage in that behavior are not wrapped to tight in the mind, rather very demented and sick and should be locked away.
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ProfessorDuh
08:54 AM on 04/27/2009
Here are two quotations from the UN Convention on Torture, signed by President Ronald Reagan:
“Torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted” and “No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat or war, internal political instability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture.”
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ProfessorDuh
08:38 AM on 04/27/2009
There's a name for a political party that enthusiastically endorses torture, police state spying on Americans and the invasion and occupation of nations that never attacked or threatened the U.S.
Begins with an "F."
And if that big, ugly F isn't dealt with in America now, we're going to be seeing a lot more blood, suffering and horror in the not-too-distant future.