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Sara Whitman

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Wake Up, Boy Scouts -- Hate Costs Money

Posted: 10/22/07 05:09 PM ET

In Philadelphia, the city got serious about what they will and will not support. The Boy Scouts of America, always getting a free ride for their program, will now have to pay going rates for the space.

The organization's Cradle of Liberty Council, which currently pays $1 a year in rent, must pay the increased amount to remain in its downtown building past May 31, Fairmount Park Commission president Robert N.C. Nix said Wednesday.

City officials say they cannot legally rent taxpayer-owned property for a nominal sum to a private organization that discriminates.

Mark that increase from $1 to $200,000.

On one hand, it's almost archaic to think of an organization that bans certain members of our society. Makes you think of fat-necked relics like Hootie Johnson of August National Golf Club, boasting his right to exclude blacks, Jews and women.

And of course, the queers. In fact, I don't think that's even on the charter. Why bother saying what goes without question?

You can't do that in Philadelphia anymore. No free rides from the city and a written, directed policy to ban gays.

And while the organization can cry the children will suffer, claiming the additional dollars "would have to come from programs. That's 30 new Cub Scout packs, or 800 needy kids going to our summer camp," it seems to me there is a very quick way to deal with the situation that won't cost a penny.

Change the policy of banning gay scouts.

It's time to take on the national organization's decision to ban gays. Here in Massachusetts, I've been approached about having my sons join the scouts. With a wink and a promise, I'm told that no one around here would ever entertain banning a gay scout.

Yet, technically, as a lesbian mom, I would not be allowed to participate in any of the activities. Sorry, the boys' dads are gay, too. And none of us are too keen on having our kids join a group that has fought legally for the right to exclude their parents.

Not to mention I find the oath a little creepy -- obey the Scout Law? On my honor? Duty to country? Sounds like a military recruitment poster. I do like the part of the Scout law that requires being clean. After cutting my son Jake's nails last night, I think clean is a good thing to have emphasized from every direction.

A word of advice to the Boy Scouts of America -- laws are changing. Your history is of a group grown from the roots of a progressive movement of the early 1900s, concerned with the social welfare of boys.

Pointing to the poor children who will be denied services is a poorly thought out choice. Instead of welcoming all boys, you will punish needy members. The irony is you have thousands of gay scouts participating right now. Local groups ignore the policy left and right, not just in Massachusetts but also all over the country.

Wake up, Boy Scouts -- hate costs money.

 
 
 
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02:06 PM on 10/24/2007
This is a great article however it leaves the public with the impression that the issue of discrimination in the BSA will be resolved once the ban on gays is lifted. It entirely ignores the fact that atheists and agnostics are also excluded from the BSA. This discrimination is just as hateful considering that there is no religion in the BSA and therefore no reason to exclude members on the basis of religious beliefs.

While there are many gays who are religious and thus less interested in religious discrimination in the BSA, the gay community must realize that by pushing this issue under the carpet, they are doing the same thing to atheists as others are doing to gays. That is, allowing a double standard to exist that permits discrimination against some while not permitting it against others.

We're stronger fighting this issue together and we will ultimately all sink or swim together.
02:54 AM on 10/24/2007
The truth is that any parent who let their child get involved with BSA knew it was a bigoted group. "I only got involved with the bigots to benefit the children" is not a valid excuse. These children would not be suffering now if the parents had initially chosen an all inclusive group.
02:56 PM on 10/23/2007
As a parent of a boy who's a member of Cradle of Liberty, I do feel it pertinent to point out a couple of things that have been left out and which I do think need to be discussed here:

Cradle of Liberty independently adopted a non-discrimination policy which was for some time posted on their website. They took the steps necessary to be in compliance, and it was that way when my son joined. (I checked, it was one of my biggest worries about him joining.) However, since then, 'national' has told them that they can't have that policy -- national said, in essence, get rid of it or you're not Boy Scouts anymore.

I can tell you now that a lot of us are pretty frustrated (and not quietly so) with 'national,' who is making problems for us without offering any solutions. No one from national has come down from on high with $200K (not that I've heard) to finance those programs that the kids will be missing out on now as a result of the fact that national mandated that Cradle of Liberty remove their independently-adopted non-discrimination policy.

Say what you want about BSA as a whole, and I might even agree with you, but sneering (as some commenters have) at the people who are stuck in the middle, trying to do the right thing by both the truth -- by putting in that policy that got struck down -- and the kids and not get kicked out of national is just wrong and doesn't help the discourse at all. The truth is, that money DOES have to come from somewhere, and the Scouts at a local level are not just rolling in cash. I don't know anything about the money in TX one way or the other.
02:51 PM on 10/23/2007
So, let's see if I understand your position. A private group that is recognized throughout the world as creating young men of character, resourcefulness and self sufficiency has raised the ire of the city - and you approve. All over it's membership policy. Isn't that a little shallow?

Do you really think that by forcing the scouts to spend more resources is in the best interests of the city? So now a kid from south Philly has to spend $50 instead of $10 to join the scouts - isn't that productive?

What is it about progressives that cause them to loose all perspective?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
thehuff
05:58 AM on 10/23/2007
The Girl Scouts is a pretty openly gay organization. I wonder when the Boy Scouts will catch on?
11:12 PM on 10/22/2007
"a very quick way to deal...change the policy of banning gay scouts". Unfortunately, we are talking about a local troop being punished for a national organization's policy. I was a boy scout in the early seventies -I quit because I objected to its military flavor in that antiwar era.But the fact is that I learned more about the planet we live on and self sufficiency and service to others than I did in any other single place in my life. My son is currently a scout 3/4 of the way to Eagle Scout. I still object to the military aspect, and certainly to the discrimanatory policies, but find the service and environmental experiences stronger than ever. The fact is that, unlike our jock dominated highschools, scouting is a place where a geek can be a geek or a gay boy can be himself-regardless of what the national charter says. Last I heard, the Catholic church still discriminates against divorced people and most major religions still (officially) discriminate against gays; is the city of Philadelphia allowing them to keep their property tax exemptions?
07:22 AM on 10/23/2007
Personally? I'd take the Catholic Church's tax exemptions away, too.

That the boy scouts is a haven for such kids is what makes the national policy so painful. And that most chapters simply ignore, rather than challenge, the policy is wrong.

Dante said, the worst part of hell is reserved for those who did nothing in the face of wrong.
03:00 PM on 10/23/2007
Again, not to beat this thing, but it really offends me because this is local and in my face, this council (not 'chapter') DID challenge that policy. They HAD a non-discrimination policy in effect. I don't know what the status of fighting over it is right now, but it was there.
11:57 PM on 10/23/2007
SaraWhitman - Point taken, I can't argue it because you're right. But I will reiterate that the victims in this partiular case are the boys in that troop- and they shouldn't have to pay the price for a policy they had nothing to do with. I wonder if the city first contacted the national council to warn them of the city's intentions and at least give them the oppurtunity to change their policy. By the way, I checked the BSA website thoroughly and could find nothing about prohibiting gay participation. I had intended to e-mail them my objection to this (apparent) discriminatory policy, in response to your post. Thanks for it.
05:57 PM on 10/22/2007
While I certainly support the ideal of Boy Scouts being for all boys who want to participate I can't help but recall my two years in the Cub Scouts. It was the most dismally boring waste of time. And on occation they (the adults in charge) thought up ways to humiliate us. They seemed to think it good practice for our futures in "The Real World" like the Army and factory jobs if we survived the Army. Oh yeah; you gotta pay dues. I never could figure out what they did with the money since if we ever did anything we had to pay for it. The troop leader was a guy who used to beat his own kid black and blue. Disipline was a big thing with those guys. Hey it was the fifties. By the age of ten I had the good sense to quit the whole sorry pile of crap. It was like living through a sick National Lampoon parody. My dues money went to important things like comic books. The pocket knife was pretty good though.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Stagmom
05:56 PM on 10/22/2007
Wow! Bet the Boy Scouts, er, tossed their cookies. As long as my gay brother is persona non grata with the Scouts I am "cookie non buyer" whether it's for the boy or girl scouts. City of brotherly love, pretty good irony, doncha think, Sara?

Best,

Kim
Fellow Huffpo Blogger
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
STORMATSEA
01:01 PM on 10/23/2007
girl scouts welcome everybody
02:58 PM on 10/23/2007
Boy Scouts sell popcorn.
Girl Scouts sell cookies.

Girl Scouts do not have an anti-gay policy.

And as for the City of Brotherly Love, as stated below, Cradle of Liberty DID adopt a non-discrimination policy of its own accord but national struck it down.
05:17 PM on 10/22/2007
"Don't ask and don't tell." If it works for the United States Armed Forces, why not the Boy Scouts of America.

One's sexuality is deeply personal and no one's business. Please don't make it mine.

Different strokes for different folks. I don't hate. I'm just not interested.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
speakyourmind
Really?
05:59 PM on 10/22/2007
Here's the thing, though: it doesn't "work" for the armed forces.
07:30 PM on 10/22/2007
So if you're married, was the ceremony private? If you date, do you hold hands in public? Kiss your boyfriend where others can see it? IF so, you're displaying your sexuality where anyone can see it. If you're so well-behaved in public that nobody can tell who you're dating or married to, you are living up to your own words. Otherwise, you're being hypocritical.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
cckrueger
is a Presbyterian (USA) pastor in Texas.
05:10 PM on 10/22/2007
I have to raise a question here. Why is it that when an institution such as the Boy Scouts is beaten into line through financial and/or political threats it is called progress and many claim a societal victory. However, when a more liberal organization faces a challenge of a similar nature it is called oppressive and backward, ignorant and "unlightened."

If the city of Philadelphia were going to do a total review of all tenants in the building and "adjust" the rent of each one based on uniform criteria, I would be 100% in favor of that. The building in question seems to be Wigard Ave. House, hardly worth a rental of $200,000 per year. I am not a resident of Philadelphia, so I may not have a good grasp on property values in the park system. However, with rent in that range for a building like that, I would strongly encourage the scouts to "let the city have it" and find more hospitable accommodations elsewhere.

I think it would be quite interesting to see the complete list of tenants and rental fees. Then we could find out if the Fairmount Park Commission is really being Fair, or simply engaging in a little political pressure through landlord influence.

c. krueger
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Quaoar
08:15 PM on 10/22/2007
There's absolutely nothing stopping the Boy Scouts from renting space from their local Elk's Club, Catholic Church, or other private entity. That way they could discriminate to their heart's content.
09:10 PM on 10/22/2007
This is fat, ugly, murderous Philly, sir. Kicking out the Boy Scouts while simultaneously calling on 10,000 men to patrol the streets... How ironic. This reflects badly on Philadelphia, not the Scouts.
04:58 PM on 10/22/2007
If only it cost more.
04:38 PM on 10/22/2007
Unless they've changed their policy recently, they ban atheists as well.
04:29 PM on 10/22/2007
Good for the city of Philadelphia. If only more localities would stand up to such hate and bigotry.