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Scott Atran

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Good Guys Kill Better, or How to Outwit the Bad Beast of Our Nature

Posted: 03/17/2012 5:00 pm

"Good guy" -- the description of Staff Sgt. Robert Bales by neighbors that is headlining in the American media -- is pretty much the way ordinary Germans saw other Germans who brutalized people in extermination camps in WW2 (See Daniel Goldhagen's Hitler's Executioners: Ordinary Germans and the Holocaust). "Good guy" is how most family, friends and neighbors in the USA described John Demjanjuk, the Ukranian-born Nazi extermination camp guard who was deported to Germany for war crimes and who died Saturday, convicted of his crimes but living free in a German nursing home. And "good guy" is how family, friends and neighbors described Ander Behring Breivik, judged by his countrymen to be "mentally unfit" when he massacred dozens of young people in Norway because his government tolerated Muslim immigrants.

Imagine an Afghan who came to the USA and murdered 16 people, mostly women and children, and burned their bodies. Then the Afghan government whisked the guy away and said, "Trust us, we'll take care of the matter," and the Afghan press was full of reports saying that neighbors in Afghanistan liked the guy. An American president who allowed this to happen would likely be impeached. And would Americans really care if some foreign terrorist who had just shot or blown up a bunch of kids sitting at a family diner had done it because he had snapped, or was drinking, or was under stress, or for any of a dozen possible motives our press has proffered for Bales' actions?

I'm not against factoring in such motivations in passing final judgment, but only if consistently applied. The problem is that Americans, just like most other nations and cultural groups, believe that most of what they do is motivated by a morality based on Golden Rule principles of fairness and do no harm (unless first done to you), and that heinous acts committed by one's own kind occur because the actor has a screw loose or was suffering unbearable social or economic pressure. In fact, recent work in evolutionary psychology indicates the Golden Rule principles operate fairly in all cultures, most of the time, but not between cultures. People in other cultures are generally thought to commit terrible acts for calculated reasons, underscored by some perverse morality that can be readily discounted, so that only the consequences of their actions should be judged, whereas for one's own group motivation is, and what ought to, mostly count.

What goes for individuals, goes for whole nations: When our country kills and shreds the flesh of others, whether flatly described in technospeak as "collateral damage" involving a few dead individual bystanders or "strategic bombing" that annihilates tens of thousands of civilians, it's almost always for fine moral reasons and because we want to save lives in the end; but if others do similar things with similar consequences, it's almost always because they are calculating evildoers. This asymmetric mindset has been with us since our species emerged from the caves, and is a continuing cause of much misunderstanding and distrust between groups in the organized anarchy of our ever-violent world. In this regard, America is unexceptional in its reaction to a massacre perpetuated by any of its own against others.

Now, factor this mindset into to the mundane workings of the extraordinary technocratic bureaucracy behind today's war-making industries, which has more destructive potential than all of the world's previous wars combined. Its managers are often the "best and the brightest," with a lot of nice guys whose team spirit differs little from that found in an advertising firm, cabin crew or Internet company. The flat language of technology and bureaucracy, and the ordinary career trappings of promotions and perks and Christmas parties, only mask (and so make possible the psychologically impossible brutality) of this awesome killing machine.

Steve Pinker, in The Better Angels of Our Nature, documents how everyday violence between people has declined markedly since the Stone Age. But this underplays another well-documented trend (known as a "power law distribution") that big wars (as well as large terrorist attacks) over the last couple of centuries, though increasingly infrequent, are very many times more murderous and catastrophic than those preceding. Each bigger event generates more world-shaking consequences than the last: politically, economically and socially. Lacking the will and means to consistently impose a universal moral code across all peoples (and the human evolution and history of intergroup rivalry says "Don't hold your breath" on this score), perhaps the only way to ultimately outwit the bad beast of our nature from doing all in all of us in the Space Age is to ignore how nice or not are the guys who prepare the killing, or how good or not may be the guys who do it, and focus mainly on treating the consequences of killing.

 
"Good guy" -- the description of Staff Sgt. Robert Bales by neighbors that is headlining in the American media -- is pretty much the way ordinary Germans saw other Germans who brutalized people in ext...
"Good guy" -- the description of Staff Sgt. Robert Bales by neighbors that is headlining in the American media -- is pretty much the way ordinary Germans saw other Germans who brutalized people in ext...
 
 
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07:47 PM on 03/19/2012
I smile every time I see a successful drone strike or another assasinated terrorist. They picked a fight with the wrong country.

Support our soldiers, and support this war. The reality of war is gruesome, but don't allow these terrorists with a stone-age mentality to get you to feel sorry for doing what is necessary.

"We did not ask for this mission, but we will fulfill it" - President George W. Bush
01:04 AM on 03/20/2012
We are ruining our country financially, and weakening our position in the world militarily by continuing this decade long war. We aren't fighting terrorists in Afghanistan, we're fighting the locals. We have worn out our welcome there. I have been to Iraq and Afghanistan. All of the people I fought, with a few exceptions, were locals, not international terrorists.
01:14 AM on 03/20/2012
Many villagers such as these did not pick a fight with anyone, before or after 9/11, before or after the Koran burnings.
01:49 PM on 03/21/2012
No, they didn't. But the day before Srg. Bales went on his spree one of his crew was very badly injured by an IED planted near that village. who do you think put it there? Srg Bales may have concluded it was one of the villagers he was trying to work with. sad but true.
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shadyladymiami
06:23 PM on 03/19/2012
Exactly.. and when Afghans react badly to our presence in their country.. or Iraqis? The right wingers rant about how 'ungrateful' they are. Lord save us! IF we were being occupied and were perfectly happy living our lives until the Soviets.. and then the United States... invaded.. and our families were being killed by bombs and trigger happy soldiers, and we were stopped all the time and questions.. and our houses' doors were kicked open and searched.. and our religion scoffed at and disrespected.. Can you but imagine how we would be reacting? Are we surprised that our men with their guns and tanks and bombs and airplanes and drones flying overhead are hated? The only saving grace is that Afghans are not armed as the Iraqis were, BUT they are also a totally different culture, much more tribal and the country is so hard to maneuver in...
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KingKrub
03:31 PM on 03/19/2012
None of this human behavior will disappear until the human race departs... sounds harsh but we can't seem to learn from our past mistakes and we sure do seem to love repeating them.
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WashingtonDCsucks
DC... Give them rope & they will try to hang you.
01:20 PM on 03/20/2012
Man will not be free until the last lawyer is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. (D.Diderot)

Once free then mankind can hit the play button on evolution and head to the stars.
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KingKrub
07:15 PM on 03/20/2012
Nice thought, well played.
02:40 PM on 03/19/2012
If you can't understand why a good soldier might be inspired to wreak bloody indiscriminate vengeance upon Afghans in the wake of this month's series of bloody attacks on American personnel, then you might need to get your skull checked for leaks.

What started this? We burned some books. For the record, the appropriate way to dispose of a Quran that's too old? Burn it. But leaving that one alone, even if what we did was inappropriate, I think the response is to take a stack of Bibles and a blow torch and put on a show. Not murder a bunch of people, then behave all outraged when you've successfully pissed a soldier off enough that he retaliates in kind.

I don't condone Sergeant Bales' actions, but I certainly understand them. When the hawks come to Congress demanding war, THIS is what they're signing up for. Not glory, victory and conquest, but madness, hatred and death.
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shadyladymiami
06:27 PM on 03/19/2012
A good soldier? Or an insane man!? The latter is more likely I would think. Either way, cold blooded slaughter of women and children will save him a very special place in HELL! I can just hear you screaming... if a school boy that was bullied all his life cracked and it was YOUR entire family murdered.. Yeah, I can hear you now. "He is a GOOD boy, just pushed to the edge..".. yeah, you hypocritical concrete for brains person! It makes me cringe to hear an American talk like that.
11:23 PM on 03/20/2012
I knew Afghanistan before the Soviets came in. The Afghans have suffered more than 30 years of constant war. With more Afghan civilians killed every year than all Americans who have died in all the years there. Yet, no one is making excuses for any Afghan "snapping" who indiscriminately kills.
01:32 PM on 03/19/2012
Amen to that. This man is the worst sort of murderer. KNX news L.A. reported yesterday that a call went out soliciting funds for a good lawyer to represent him. Outrageous. Assign a public defender, life imprisonment, and grant psychiatric treatment and therapy. Media would leap on this crime if perpetrated against citizens on U.S. soil, with pictures and video of the offender and photos of victims and crime site, TV psychologists discussing and interviews with people involved. But the murderer is an American soldier and the victims Afghans, so reporters handle it with kid gloves. It's offensive and provoking.

"Eye for an eye"--unnecessary war, drone strikes, death penalty etc.--strengthens "the bad beast of our nature"...violence is a force that feeds on itself. Violence causes societal regression, like partying in the streets when the enemy is assassinated, torturing detainees and spitting on the dead. The answer is diplomacy, humane policy, rendering enemy leaders powerless without full-scale attack on the country, peacefully when possible, and locking them up (in decent conditions) so they can't hurt anyone.
03:22 PM on 03/19/2012
I'd submit that all of this support for the killer and all of these excuses and mitigating factors would be nowhere in sight if the sergeant was a black (or hispanic, or Muslim) American soldier. It seems that the media only drums up compassion for whites--whether they are vicitms or perpetrators. Look at the Trayvon Martin case--there seems to be more compassion for Zimmerman (the murderer) than an innocent black victim.
04:56 PM on 03/19/2012
I have to agree. It's a sad and backward condition for our country in the new millennium. Hopefully media's understating the tragedy will prompt Americans to address this problem.
01:55 PM on 03/21/2012
I;d submit that as a news junkie I haven't seen any people of color or hispanic in this kind of trouble as a result of a lack of judgement at best and a complete breakdown at worst. but if I had, if would be understandable. Why does everything have to be observed through the lens of race. I am a caucasian women btw and I find the Trayvon Martin incident equally appalling. Justice will be served in both cases.
12:56 PM on 03/19/2012
Let me start from far away
Industrial Revolution gave people an opportunity to move from the lower social group to a higher one.
Elites didn't like it, therefore Marxism appeared (also, in mid 18th Century) to put the masses under another type of control: social elite to replace old royal blood based one.
Back in USA today: young people, who grew up anywhere between San Francisco and Manhattan (or geographically between Berkley and Harvard), sign for Service to make money, learn the trade, get through the college and move up from their social group to a higher one. And elites don't like it. This is a main reason for all the contempt for people in a uniform. The soft belly liberals are scared of anyone with a firearm and just hate our soldiers (otherwise, how could anyone compare an American Soldier with Nazi war criminal)
02:14 PM on 03/21/2012
wrong wronger and wrongest. You really have it in for us ev.il libs, don't you. Sad. We are not as you paint us with the very broad brush. Some of us are progressive in our views and still respect our people in the armed forces. You speak of hate. Please look in the mirror and see what is there. I Do.
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11:56 AM on 03/19/2012
"Apparently deranged", "probably deranged", journalists announced, a soldier who "might have suffered some kind of breakdown" (The Guardian), a "rogue US soldier" (Financial Times) whose "rampage" (The New York Times) was "doubtless [sic] perpetrated in an act of madness" (Le Figaro). Really? Are we supposed to believe this stuff? Surely, if he was entirely deranged, our staff sergeant would have killed 16 of his fellow Americans. He would have slaughtered his mates and then set fire to their bodies. But, no, he didn't kill Americans. He chose to kill Afghans. There was a choice involved. So why did he kill Afghans? We learned yesterday that the soldier had recently seen one of his mates with his legs blown off. But so what?
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-madness-is-not-the-reason-for-this-massacre-7575737.html
02:15 PM on 03/21/2012
hard to know, isn't it. so what should these publications have said.
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11:18 AM on 03/22/2012
"Here’s a summary of the Western media discussion of what motivated U.S. Staff Sgt. Robert Bales to allegedly kill 16 Afghans, including 9 children: he was drunk, he was experiencing financial stress, he was passed over for a promotion, he had a traumatic brain injury, he had marital problems, he suffered from the stresses of four tours of duty, he “saw his buddy’s leg blown off the day before the massacre,” etc.
Here’s a summary of the Western media discussion of what motivates Muslims to kill Americans: they are primitive, fanatically religious, hateful Terrorists. Even when Muslims who engage in such acts toward Americans clearly and repeatedly explain that they did it in response to American acts of domination, aggression, violence and civilian-killing in their countries, and even when the violence is confined to soldiers who are part of a foreign army that has invaded and occupied their country, the only cognizable motive is one of primitive, hateful evil. It is an act of Evil Terrorism, and that is all there is to say about it."
10:47 AM on 03/19/2012
John Kennedy's reading of book, and his recommendation that his cabinet and genrals read it, arguably helped to save the world in October 1962. No more influential book may have ever been written.
11:39 AM on 03/19/2012
The book you are referring to is "The Guns of August" by Barbara Tuchman. In it she chronicles how Europe stumbled and bumbled into World War I - a war NO ONE wanted, and cost at least 25 million lives.

And then they let their rulers do it again....

Europe almost self-destructed. Any wonder they look at our clueless war-mongering with astonishment.
02:18 PM on 03/21/2012
Not really surprising considering that American soil was not touched to any significant degree during either of those horrible conflicts. No, we will end up fighting amongst ourselves. Horrible thought. but possible.
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WashingtonDCsucks
DC... Give them rope & they will try to hang you.
01:24 PM on 03/20/2012
That would imply that someone somewhere in Washington DC possessed enough intelligence to be able to read.

Sorry but all recent evidence points unanimously to the contrary.
10:12 AM on 03/19/2012
In my earlier post I use the phrase "our freak out reaction to 9-11". I suppose I was projecting my feelings, because I certainly freaked out. I also thought that Afghanistan should be the focus of our military action. Of course, Bush, Cheney, Rice and Rumsfeld destroyed all credibility for any justification in the appalling detour into Iraq.

I recommend Barbara Tuchman's book "The March of Folly" if anyone is interested in gaining some historical perspective, not just on Afghanistan but on governmental and political foolishness in general.
QuantProgrammer
Cap welfare benefits at two kids.
10:03 AM on 03/19/2012
The reason we can get away with this is that we have the strongest military on the planet. If we don't want Afghanistan invading the US and pulling stuff like this, we need to increase military spending.
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RoboSmash11
10:36 AM on 03/19/2012
Might makes right, not morality- got it.
I guess those Germans had every right to do what they did then.
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JJR60616
The Plan is...there is no plan!
01:27 PM on 03/19/2012
Well, I would not be throwing that weight around much longer if it was up to me...

All signs point to the Chinese having some weight of their own to throw around soon.

What I find ironic about all this is that all through history, this happens...yet mankind never seems to learn from it.

The parallels between our time now and our time before WW2 are almost scary..yet this time we may actually be on the other side of the fence, morality-wise. Sigh
02:22 PM on 03/21/2012
Ironically, its primarily the re.ligio.us right that's pushing for hawkish stuff.
09:38 AM on 03/19/2012
Not being satisfied with having wasted so many lives and so much money in Iraq and Afghanistan we are now locked into threatening Iran telling them what weapons they cannot have on behalf of a nuclear armed and expansionist Israel. We should be demanding that both Iran and Israel renounce nuclear weapons but of course we will never embrace such an even handed policy because the Israeli lobby owns our foreign policy and we will follow their lead even when it makes no sense at all. We need an independent foreign policy that puts the interests of the United States first and foremost.
10:59 AM on 03/19/2012
Until we divorce our foreign policy from Israel we will always be bogged down in conflict in the region. But of course that suits the weapons makers and traders just fine. Congress takes kick bakes from the MIC and the lives of service men and women mean nothing at all. But that's just business, nothing personal.
02:27 PM on 03/21/2012
Yep. just like the Roman Empire. and look what happened to them. due
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jeanrenoir
09:21 AM on 03/19/2012
Atran is far too rational to have any influence on our crazy right-wing white mob, the ones FORCING Obama to "whisk" this mass murderer away. Fox, Rush, and the Koch Bros.' Ministry of Propaganda and Big Lies is now so effective with its tens of millions of moronic dittohead followers that EVERY national leader has to calculate how ANYTHING will play with the mob once the Goebbels crowd gets through playing around with it for political advantage. This is horrible and tragic, but it's the price we pay for having such a debased, hate-filled, ignorant, irrational, and just plain stupid right-wing white electorate. Obviously, I totally agree with Atran, but mere reason, ethics, and decency are powerless against our Goebbels Memorial Ministry of Propaganda. IF Obama somehow wins next fall, secures the Democratic Senate, and wins back at least a chunk of seats for Dems in the House, there may be some hope for us against Goebbels' American progeny. But if a Republican wins the White House, gives the Republicans the Senate, and actually STRENGTHENS the Republican hold on the House, America is truly finished.
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Act out
Make love not war.
09:40 AM on 03/19/2012
Hi Jean, I totally agree with both of you. Very well said. You deserve a fan for that.
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rutroGeorge
Silence is Golden, unless I have something to bark
09:10 AM on 03/19/2012
To .firstgame72 who my keyboard wouldn't allow me to reply to for some reason so I am doing so here. Yes, those outside invaders would be allowed in and we would be asked to be complacent about it, because just like the Karzai regime millions and millions of dollars would accompany them, but into the hands of the country's leaders, not its citizens.
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Carl Caroli
I just don't understand people
08:57 AM on 03/19/2012
The things we do for god and country. Unquestioned faith leads to self righteousness often with disastrous consequences.
02:29 PM on 03/21/2012
Indeed.
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alewis14151
Spiritual grump
08:42 AM on 03/19/2012
"Imagine an Afghan who came to the USA and murdered 16 people, mostly women and children, and burned their bodies. Then the Afghan government whisked the guy away and said, "Trust us, we'll take care of the matter ..."

Hey! That's exactly the comment I made yesterday! I'd like to apply for a job with HuffPost now.