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Shahid Buttar

Shahid Buttar

Posted January 5, 2009 | 11:27 AM (EST)

Could Gitmo Get Worse? The Policy Implications of Executive Accountability


As Congress and the Obama Administration start to clean the mess left by Bush, Cheney, and their respective minions, Washington's highest priorities will include restoring the Rule of Law. A fundamental bedrock of modern democracy, it has withered under a multi-faceted assault by the White House entailing executive secrecy, self-aggrandizement, cronyism, corruption, and violations of various statutory, constitutional, and international legal obligations.

To repudiate the Bush legacy and restore fundamental American values, few steps would cover as much ground as ending surveillance, detention and torture. Obama's impending inauguration offers hope for progress on all three fronts, but observers have overlooked how enforcing executive accountability would support these concrete policy changes. Leaving former officials unaccountable could lead to even worse problems taking their place.

In the face of Washington's reluctance to deepen partisan divisions, or implicate leaders of both parties who ultimately share responsibility for the Administration's worst abuses, a rising chorus -- including Glenn Greenwald, Jonathan Turley, the New York Times, and now even conservative voices like that of former Nixon staffer John Dean -- has demanded that senior Bush Administration officials face prosecution for torture-related war crimes. Demands for executive accountability have grown bolder in the wake of recent revelations that Cheney, Rumsfeld, and their top aides personally approved the use of torture.

Prosecuting the officials responsible for failed, illegal and unconstitutional policies of torture, detention and surveillance would not simply vent partisan rage, or distract from Congress' pressing forward-looking work. To the contrary, executive accountability is crucial to enable a meaningful response to (rather than mere compromises on) our nation's most urgent needs.

Surveillance: Up in the Air

The first of the Bush Administration's secret domestic spying programs was exposed in 2005 by the New York Times. Dubbed the "Terrorist Surveillance Program" (TSP) to help placate a rightly skeptical public, it was ruled unconstitutional by one federal judge and nearly instigated a mass exodus from the White House by officials concerned with the program's systematic violation of fundamental rights.

After years of heated controversy over the TSP, congressional moderates caved to the Bush Administration's demands this summer and passed a new FISA bill, which retroactively authorized the TSP and re-wrote prior laws to accommodate the program's violations. Moderates cited unsupported national security concerns as a reason to disregard the Constitution, accepted continued executive secrecy even in the context of blatant executive lawlessness, and subsidized corporate criminals through blanket legal immunity.

President-Elect Obama bears some responsibility for the FISA fiasco of 2008. As a Senator, he promised to filibuster the bill, but ultimately voted for it during the presidential campaign. As a leading presidential candidate at the time, he enjoyed a unique opportunity to reframe the debate over the program, which he (understandably) resigned to avoid inviting criticism for appearing "weak" on national security.

Even so, Obama's inauguration offers hope: while he failed to defend civil liberties as a Senator, he might yet do so as a President. Like prosecutors wielding discretion over whether to file criminal charges in any given case, the President holds the authority to unilaterally curtail the TSP, as well as Bush & Cheney's other secret surveillance programs.

What sets surveillance apart from torture and detention is the sheer breadth of its assault on the American people: whereas illegal detention has affected hundreds of individuals, and torture some unknown (probably smaller) number, surveillance offends the rights of hundreds of millions of Americans -- including even U.S. service members spied upon in their most private moments.

If we can't attain a national consensus against secret surveillance trampling the rights of literally every American, what hope exists of a progressive consensus emerging on torture or detention?

Detention: A consensus against Gitmo...but for what, exactly?

Unlike surveillance, the detention debate has witnessed a fundamental shift in the center. Corporate law firms across the country stepped in to defend detainees in federal courts and the Bush Administration's puppet tribunals: military commissions initially rejected by the Supreme Court, before Congress again later ratified the Administration's excesses through the Military Commissions Act of 2006. Enduring smears by the Pentagon, lawyers representing detainees even found support from their corporate clients, which recognized the fundamental values at stake and firmly supported their work. Obama's victory in November further reflects a national consensus to close Guantanamo Bay and restore habeas corpus.

But what comes in Gitmo's wake? How to close the facility could prove even more important than whether to close it: Gitmo was a gulag for less than 800 people at its peak, whereas proposals for alternatives, such as so-called "national security courts" within the U.S., would eviscerate the rights of millions.

First and foremost, federal courts created under Article III of the Constitution are fully equipped to adjudicate criminal cases against defendants previously held as enemy combatants. In Article III courts, well-trained judges apply established rules of procedure within a constitutional framework lending legitimacy to their judgments.

In sharp contrast, creating specialized "courts" for detainees would further undermine the Rule of Law along several dimensions. By deviating from the system of rules previously established by Article III, they would violate law (which relies on the consistent application across contexts of transparent rules known in advance) by definition.

In addition, accepting the Bushian premise that Article III courts are inadequate would place the Obama Administration in the position of cementing a noxious precedent. If preventive detention becomes the "new normal," what manner of abuse will Obama's eventual successor concoct? And in the meantime, what norms would we set -- and what kind of change would Obama signal -- to the onlooking international community?

One of the main reasons their detractors say Article III courts are inadequate to hear cases involving enemy combatants is because so much of the evidence against detainees was coerced through torture. Unlike military commissions, which allow torture-induced evidence, Article III courts are bound by the Constitution, including the 5th and 8th Amendments, and (at least theoretically) international agreements such as the Geneva Conventions -- all of which prohibit torture. According to conservative apologists, these constraints render Article III courts ill-equipped to adjudicate the cases of military detainees.

But why, exactly, is their respect for rights a reason to doubt Article III courts? Torture-induced evidence will be inadmissible, but it should be -- that's why we banned it in the first place. Our nation chose long ago not to follow the Spanish Inquisition's example.

In addition, Article III courts could adequately consider any further potential evidence (including classified information) that prosecutors might offer to support the detention of a particular individual. Of course, the Administration calls the two hundred or so detainees who remain "hardcore" terrorists. But Donald Rumsfeld claimed six years ago that Gitmo housed the "worst of the worst," which we now know to be patently false.

Torture: The crux of the debate

As with detention, moderates have routed neo-conservatives and won the national "debate" about torture. Obama has vowed to end torture, and the controversy has shifted from whether to allow "enhanced interrogation techniques" to whether those responsible for them will ever face justice.

But while the neo-conservative torture policy has been decisively rejected, its proponents have not yet been held accountable, nor even fully debriefed by investigators or Congress. Attorney General Mukasey won confirmation last year to the nation's highest law enforcement position despite refusing to repudiate torture. And even after gaining a majority in the House and Senate in 2006, and witnessing public opinion polls favoring impeachment of Bush and Cheney, Democrats neglected executive accountability and instead left those responsible for torture in office.

It would be bad enough to circumvent the Constitution by creating some lesser, contrived "judicial" process for detainees. Trying to justify such contortions as necessary to accommodate the excesses of torturers adds insult to injury. Rather than presuming detainees to be guilty on the basis of torture, we should allow them a chance to defend themselves -- and we should prosecute their torturers, as well as their elected civilian commanders.

That commitment to the Rule of Law would not only restore legitimacy to America's struggle against violent extremism, but also drastically shift the discussion of related policies. Put simply, whether Guantanamo Bay is replaced by an even worse alternative could turn on whether torturers, or detainees, face justice first.

Cheney & his minions

Vice President Cheney, in particular, should face criminal liability imposed not only through a judicial process, but also through legislative impeachment by the next session of Congress. His charges should include not only the war crime of ordering torture, but also outright treason.

At the very least, Cheney recently disclosed a decision to personally authorize torture, and the Senate recently exposed Rumsfeld's crucial role. Both officials clearly violated the Constitution and the 8th Amendment, as well as longstanding international human rights norms that our country was once proud to have pioneered.

Among those norms was the principle -- which we advocated and secured at the Nuremburg trials 60 years ago -- that liability for human rights abuses and war crimes stretches up and down the chain of command. Accordingly, enablers such as David Addington (who reportedly drafted the February 2002 memo declaring the Geneva Conventions inapplicable to enemy combatants) and William Haynes (who stopped a review by the Joint Chiefs of Staff sought by the Navy) should also face charges for crimes that they helped their bosses commit.

And because the Vice President wields influence only under the President's auspices, President Bush should face many of the same charges. Prosecuting the President grows even more imperative should he attempt (as he did with "Scooter" Libby) to pardon his subordinates for offenses they committed together. Pardons that impede justice and accountability are bad enough; self-serving pardons preclude transparency by closing lines of investigative inquiry and inflict further public harm beyond the underlying offense.

Treason

Approving torture is not merely a war crime; it (and a host of other public high crimes by Cheney and his junta) may also have constituted outright treason.

Strong policy arguments counsel against torture. For instance, the treatment of U.S. soldiers and contractors turns on how others expect us to handle those we capture on the battlefield. Four years ago, the gruesome execution of four Blackwater mercenaries in Falluja instigated one of the conflict's bloodiest episodes, when U.S. forces essentially demolished an entire civilian city. Within a month, the now-infamous photos emerged from Abu Ghraib, confirming previous suspicions of abuse by U.S. forces.

From this perspective, U.S. torture and arbitrary detention policies helped terrorists by driving recruits into their arms, undermining U.S. national security and threatening the lives of American soldiers.

Beyond personally authorizing torture, Cheney, in particular, also betrayed the public trust and the integrity of his office. First, the Vice President has never directly answered accusations that he contrived public policies to enrich his former colleagues. For instance, Cheney's Energy Task Force brazenly sacrificed our country's interests to the whims of oil, gas and coal executives. Cheney's meetings with industry leaders also offended transparency and represented an early step toward his longstanding agenda to centralize power in the White House.

Cheney's personal relationship with Justice Antonin Scalia, who helped hide the scheme from public scrutiny in a ruling supporting his friend, further mocked the Rule of Law. And the energy policy ermerging from Cheney's Task Force ultimately played a key role in the disastrous decision to invade Iraq (as well as this summer's spike in energy prices).

Separately, the agenda to "downsize the military" that Cheney and Rumsfeld shared was code for granting massive public subsidies to contractors like Halliburton, often through no-bid contracts for performing traditionally military functions. Patronage for an official's former business appears especially galling in the context of war - especially an unnecessary won consuming $3 trillion, and the lives of over 4,000 U.S. soldiers, and anywhere between 90,000 and over half a million civilians. While scamming taxpayers, contractors like those rewarded by Cheney's largesse also enjoyed immunity from prosecution for abuses ranging from fraud to murder & rape.

Cheney has already faced criminal investigation for exposing an undercover CIA agent in retaliation for her husband's criticism of Cheney's lies encouraging war. Cheney's Chief of Staff was criminally convicted of lying and obstructing that investigation. In the midst of that investigation, Cheney pressured the Attorney General to authorize the TSP despite fierce internal objections from within the Justice Department over its legality. Later, he blacklisted conscientious officials who opposed his agenda, and shut down another investigation by denying security clearances to investigators probing the role of White House lawyers in approving torture.

Knowing what we do about the Vice President, his unapologetic maintenance of secrecy surrounding his public acts, his abuses of office, and the sheer audacity of his agenda, why has he not faced further questions whose answers remain mysterious?

Cheney was present every time the President was questioned by the 9-11 Commission, whose explanation of that tragic day's events has never convinced millions of Americans committed to what they call the "9-11 Truth" movement. If 9-11 remains clouded by lingering conspiracy theories (however attenuated), why not examine Dick Cheney's potential links to them?

We know that Cheney supported an analysis that longstanding conservative aims, like those embedded in the PATRIOT Act, would require a tragedy along the lines of Pearl Harbor in order to become politically viable. Countless garden-variety prosecutions have started from more attenuated observations of a suspect's circumstantial motive.

And what of Paul Wellstone? Does the bizarre and untimely death of the Senate's most outspoken liberal on the eve of an illegal and globally controversial war not suggest some scrutiny of that war's principal architect? Few potential criminal suspects have clearer motives or means, and while the extent of Cheney's potential "opportunity" remains opaque, it would be a fitting subject for closer investigation.

Gitmo (again)

On the one hand, executive accountability for torture (or potential involvement in a national tragedy) holds no formal link to policies on either detention or surveillance. But as Congress and the Obama Administration evaluate their respective alternatives going forward, the political climate surrounding their inquiry would shift dramatically were Bush Administration officials to confront criminal charges.

If Cheney and others face justice for their roles in approving torture, or treason charges for their various assaults on the Rule of Law (and possibly the people of New York), their brutish allies in Congress will lose credibility on related issues going forward. Potential measures expanding domestic spying, for instance, would encounter deep skepticism at the outset, rather than the cowed intimidation of politicians unwilling to risk appearing "weak" on national security. Similarly, detainee policy in the wake of Guantanamo's closure would be driven by human rights norms, rather than exigencies concocted by supporters of dictatorial Executive power.

In contrast, failing to prosecute would leave untouched the underlying policy baseline, and also set a dangerous precedent. Torture, detention and surveillance practices will likely shift somehow under the Obama Administration, in any case. But until Cheney and his minions stand trial, their allies will seek compromises both from within the bureaucracy and on the Hill.

The specter of the Vice President in deserved chains would not only drive neo-conservative hawks & brutes onto their political heels, but would also reaffirm the nation's commitment to the Rule of Law. In contrast, letting Rumsfeld, Cheney, Addington and Haynes enjoy their remaining lives with the respect due merely disgraced former public servants -- rather than the disdain reserved for traitors and war criminals -- sends a message that officials may violate even the most fundamental constitutional rights with impunity. That, in turn, will accelerate the race to the bottom in international standards and further erode human rights principles we once pioneered.

We could either presume that victims of torture are guilty, and contrive lawless tribunals to lend a veneer of legitimacy to a fundamentally rigged process -- or we could sincerely revisit the designation of enemy combatants by committing ourselves to legitimate and unbiased trials before qualified, experienced judges. Criminally prosecuting departing officials responsible for torture would strongly shift Washington's political winds in the latter direction.

Similarly, Congress and the next Attorney General will either bow to torturers and continue to shape policies around their most egregious crimes long after they leave office, or instead recover the Republic from their ongoing grip by forcing them to answer hard questions they have stonewalled long enough.

Only Congress or the incoming Administration can hold accountable senior Bush officials, and they will do so only in response to an overwhelming popular mandate. Americans committed to the Rule of Law should reject illegitimate policies as the starting point for 2009, and press our representatives to repudiate the Bush-Cheney legacy by enforcing laws violated by departing White House officials and supporting their criminal prosecution.

As Congress and the Obama Administration start to clean the mess left by Bush, Cheney, and their respective minions, Washington's highest priorities will include restoring the Rule of Law. A fundamen...
As Congress and the Obama Administration start to clean the mess left by Bush, Cheney, and their respective minions, Washington's highest priorities will include restoring the Rule of Law. A fundamen...
 
 
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01:33 PM on 01/13/2009
Given his voting record and the centrist choices for his cabinet (not to mention the undeniable Democratic mantra of condemn then concede), and including the retention of Bush's man Gates high on the hierarchy of conducting the long war, on what would you base your assertion that Obama now elected might suddenly act counter to his history and protect civil liberties?
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Shahid Buttar
Civil rights lawyer, grassroots organizer, electro
12:02 AM on 01/16/2009
Obama did at least oppose the immunity provisions when signing the FISA bill, which he said also needed further protections for law-abiding Americans. That seems to indicate some reservations with the TSP, even though he voted to authorize the program and preserve Executive authority (in which he has an independent interest, which may ultimately explain his vote).

Further, it's always difficult in a legislative context to introduce and enact fine-toothed limits on broad grants of authority, whereas he'll be more institutionally poised as the President to impose whatever limits he might desire.

Finally, the sheer point in time matters here since the FISA vote occurred in the context of a heated campaign defined largely (at the time) in terms of the so-called War on Terror. Now, over six months later, surveillance has attained a deservedly pejorative reputation and the political winds blow in a very different direction. As a result, the Administration may perceive political "cover" now that didn't exist a year ago.

Having said all that, this is me hoping for the best. What to expect is anyone's guess, though I will say that I've been encouraged by the incoming Administration's reported plans to close Gitmo quickly and refusal to consider domestic national security courts. Both are promising indications of Obama's intentions.
01:05 PM on 01/07/2009
Well said, Shahid. What concerns me most is the role Democrat & Republican Senators and Representatives played. While every fact you mentioned regarding Bush and Cheney is unassailable, we know very little about how the Congress went along with all of this. I may be a conspiracy theorist, however, it is clear that the Congress rubber stamped many things. The excuses of "heat of the battlefield" have always fallen short for me; there is no carnage in Washington and that metaphor just doesn't come close to any kind of reality. Sitting in a leather High Backed chair, pontificating on allowing torture, allowing grossly flawed court systems to undermine Rules of Law, allowing Cheney and His Minions to run free is hardly a "heat of the moment" decision. While there has been 8 years to review and modify decisions that were supposedly "made in the heat of battle", they have actively NOT done it - instead, they have actively worked to codify these deranged pieces of tortured logic.

Perhaps the only place we need a new Court is for Impeachment: I believe those Democrats currently sitting are too compromised to be any kind of Jury. You may as well find 14 people that conspired on a murder, put one of them on trial, make another the Judge and have the other 12 be the Jury.

Anything short of an earthquake throughout our Government (including possibly going back to the drawing board) does nothing to make me feel better.
08:56 PM on 01/06/2009
Both Cheney and Bush have a lot to answer for. History will not judge them kindly
08:42 AM on 01/06/2009
Well, if anything, prosecutions would lead to an interesting exploration of the extent of executive privilege. Unfortunately, given the composition of the federal courts, prosecutions would likely further entrench in precedent Bush's expansive read to executive privilege even as the Obama administration will hopefully prove in policy to be more forthcoming.

On a totally random aside, when will spell check be updated to reflect Obama as a correct word? They already have recognized fictional characters like Darth Vader? God I need my coffee.
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Shahid Buttar
Civil rights lawyer, grassroots organizer, electro
04:30 PM on 01/06/2009
To the extent pursuit of war crimes or treason charges proceeds through an impeachment mechanism, Article III courts (which I agree have been co-opted and politicized) could be entirely shut out of the process: impeachment entails the House voting whether to charge, and then the Senate serving as a jury with the Chief Justice presiding in essentially a trial judge's role (which does offer some opportunities to skew the outcome, but fewer than in case resulting in a bench verdict).

And as for the Obama Administration's view of executive power, the appointment of Dawn Johnsen (whom I respect a great deal) bodes well -- as does the transition team's commitment to public disclosure of recommendations they've received from advocacy groups.

Finally, as for the spell check, I'm more surprised that Darth Vader is recognized than that Obama is not. I wonder what the threshold would be for inclusion? Better yet: what would it take for a random new fictional character to find her / his / its way into the leixcon...?
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MrBadger
01:28 AM on 01/06/2009
It seems like it might be a good idea to do a kind of "truth and reconciliation" process like the did in South Africa and elsewhere. Let everyone tell exactly what they did and didn't do, and then ROAST anyone who doesn't come clean.
11:16 PM on 01/05/2009
My legal education included asking ‘What keeps a ship on course on the high seas in dark night when strong winds churn it round and round? Answer was ‘Compass’. Professor remarked that “Jurisprudence is the compass without which ship of law may lose direction, go off course and sink if strayed in shallow waters and hit by a reef.

Keith Obherman’s ‘charge-sheets’ broadcast internationally listed dozens of flagrant violations of law and constitution, repeatedly boasted by perpetrators on TV. This administration in 8 years threw away that compass in disregard of law, constitution and human rights - of Americans and foreigners.

Human Rights Commission reports on third-world countries report a common practice. People know the formula to violate law and escape consequences is to become big, ‘VERY BIG’. Have we imported that formula?

During practicing that formula, demands for impeachments for constitutional misdemeanors or academia cries for justice for war crimes, human rights violations or Nierenberg principles mean nothing. Judges cowed or ploughed down by Executive guarantees violators going free. Judging requires competent prosecutorial indictment based upon a complaint, investigation and evidence. Speeding offence entails fine if speedster is caught and ticketed. Repeat-offenders get enhanced sentence if prior convictions are proved. Sentencing guidelines mandate minimum sentences if judicial trials culminate in convictions. But is that normal prosecution process in progress?

Democrats love fighting loosing battles like constitutionally baseless tussle to oust Burris while Americans abroad remain unwanted and unsafe and those at home deplaned despite prepaid air passages.
schatsie
Wall Street is Worse than Vegas
08:10 PM on 01/05/2009
You know after 9/11 when Bush was invited to testify to Congress... he had to go hand in hand with Cheney and neither of them would go under oath and only for 1 hour....I knew then that these men are rotton thru and thru.... The rape of California for 60 billion dollars has never been explained and there never were any financial consequences....It was a rape, they took plants off line, 30% of them to decrease the supply and increase their profits and this was with the good people of California reducing their energy consumption by 50%...

There is so much they need to be held accountable, if they are not, they will not learn the RULE OF LAW... actually matters... They have established a dictatorship/DeCIDER temporarily and the next time it will be permanent...
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05:45 PM on 01/05/2009
Expecting Obama "to reframe the debate over the (illegal wiretap) program" while "a leading presidential candidate at the time" was unrealistic, although at the time I have to admit I was also disappointed in Senator Obama.
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As a leading presidential candidate at the time, he enjoyed a unique opportunity to reframe the debate over the program, which he (understandably) resigned to avoid inviting criticism for appearing "weak" on national security.
]
But looking back at the campaign, including the primaries, and considering what worked and what did not, the idea of re-framing a debate on any topic brings Ron Paul to mind. He correctly predicted the current meltdown and offered a plan for the future that is more consistent with Republicans' *stated* small-government core values than any other candidate for President in decades, but because he brought a new frame of reference to the subject, all the other GOP candidates and most of the press responded to the unfamiliar in essentially the same way: with ridicule, not substantive rebuttal. The voters in most states apparently assumed the majority of GOP candidates and pundints (sic) know what they are talking about.

A candidate can hold a differing opinion on any of the current subjects of most intense debate, but attempting to re-frame any such debate is, in practice, just an advance concession speech.
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Shahid Buttar
Civil rights lawyer, grassroots organizer, electro
07:55 PM on 01/05/2009
Your point's well taken, but I think it disregards how much influence candidates actually have over the political discourse. Ron Paul was indeed greeted with occasional ridicule on even prescient positions, but he was also relatively marginal as compared to Obama -- who was the leading Democrat in the race.

On the one hand, had Obama maintained a constitutional approach to surveillance, he would have risked being outflanked by the Clinton campaign, which could have supported the FISA bill and claimed the allegiance of some moderates unattached to civil liberties. On the other hand, a strong position opposing FISA would have mobilized the progressive base -- which reacted quite critically to Obama's switch -- and he would have hardly risked ridicule, in any case.

More broadly, candidates & politicians are rarely willing to actually lead. Polling and focus groups are illustrative: candidates would rather (and in fact must, to some extent) assess what voters want, and then contrive positions to match those preferences. The problem is that popular social attitudes thus get constructed by mainstream media, which is hardly a paragon of insight or ideological breadth.

There is plenty of space for principled politicians to assertively champion issues important to the American people even in the face of opposition by the conventional wisdom. Those stands aren't necessarily political suicide, either, since political discourse reflects the Heisenberg uncertainty principle (i.e., whatever we might do to monitor the prevailing climate ultimately shifts it).
05:37 PM on 01/05/2009
I sincerley hope Obama will not stand in the way of prosecuting criminal violations of the law by the Bush regime-- although truly I doubt he will do so. It is impossible, in my humble opinion, to claim that we are a society based on the rule of law when our leaders are not held accountable. Great article. I hope more people read it and DO something about it.
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06:20 PM on 01/05/2009
I hope you find the following interesting, and encouraging. It seems that Eric Holder had little to do with the pardon of Marc Rich other than signing his name on something he probably wishes he had scrutinized more carefully; and that his career history suggests he is the best possible appointment for prosecution of Bush, Inc. for high war crimes.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/12/17/12044/511/350/673939
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Shahid Buttar
Civil rights lawyer, grassroots organizer, electro
09:14 PM on 01/05/2009
Holder's history in DOJ's Public Integrity section is indeed a positive indication of what may come to pass. Here's some further commentary quoting his remarks from a speech he gave last year at an event organized by my old employer: http://www.juancole.com/2008/12/obama-and-holder-must-return-to.html.

The ultimate question is how tactically aggressive the incoming Administration proves itself to be. With so much attention on the economy, it may find itself besieged by crises and unable to focus on restoring the Rule of Law -- but there's no reason that, sufficiently empowered, Holder couldn't appoint a special prosecutor to launch an investigation while others in the Administration focus elsewhere.

The biggest risk I see potentially inhibiting that willingness is the possibility of a torture investigation implicating Democrats in Congress who may also have (at least tacitly) supported the Bush Administration's abuses. If investigating torture would buy the new Administration a host of enemies among otherwise presumable allies, it might end up walking on eggshells.

There's also the issue of subordinates implementing torture, all of whom are equally liable under the principles established at Nuremberg -- but whom Obama & Holder may be wary of charging en masse.
05:12 PM on 01/05/2009
Shahid Buttar is another dilusional goof-ball that distorts everything and doesn't live in reality. First of all, the bill of rights are for American citizens only, not for terrorists from other countries caught up in a war, they don't even fall under the Geneva accords. The patriot act and others like it are perfectly constitutional, read the fourth amendment , you will see the word unreasonalble tucked in there for good reason. Do you really think the people of this nation don' t want the govt. looking into people who want to kill us? Believe me, they couldn't careless about your everyday conversations. Mr. Buttar must not know what torture is. Waterboarding is a safe way to gain info without damage to the individual. Torture is taking out someones eye with a fork( from al-qaeda manual). Bottom line, you weak, anti-American fools out there better screw your head on straight, because the problems of this world are going to get worse, and it won't be the fault of men like Cheney or Bush. It will be our failure to act before it's to late.........
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Shahid Buttar
Civil rights lawyer, grassroots organizer, electro
05:47 PM on 01/05/2009
You might learn a lot from a high school civics course. Defending the principles that have long defined our nation (which you seem so willing to trade for a vague and ephemeral assurance of "security") is hardly anti-American.

In contrast, I can think of a few actions that are certainly anti-American -- like shredding the Constitution, undermining our nation's respect & standing in the international community, and encouraging militants to take up arms by authorizing human rights violations.

There are a host of further issues we could explore (e.g., the unreliability of torture-induced evidence, the circularity and confusion of suggestions to base our definition of torture on the practices of militants whom we fight largely because of their profound disrespect for human rights, and how a blind foreign policy disregarding human rights has somehow masqueraded as "strong" -- as opposed to simply stupid -- for so long already). But I'll leave that for whomever teaches that civics course that I hope you take.

There is, unfortunately, one thing on which we agree: "the problems of this world are going to get worse...." The question is whether we are strong enough as a nation to face those problems and address them -- without sacrificing the principles that once defined the U.S. and helped inspire the rest of humanity to also seek freedom, justice, and peace. A "victory" at the cost of these principles would represent a loss far worse than anything we could suffer at the hands of militants.
11:13 AM on 01/08/2009
Mr. Buttar, you might learn alot about what it truly means to be an American by taking a class on the founding fathers and one on history. How has the constitution been shredded? If the international communty is wrong, do you really care about their respect? Militants don't need any encouragement- they are militants. Finally- How can others seek freedom, justice and peace if they are oppressed?
05:00 PM on 01/05/2009
Hopefully others will read this article.....including Obama, and do the right thing.... restore the rule of law, and promote "good" manners and accountability in the "new" administration.
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lgillooly
02:41 PM on 01/05/2009
I totally agree. Not because of Partisanship,but becuase it is the only way to heal this Country and restore our Integrity with the International community.
President Clinton made the mistake of not investigaing crimes by Bush 41 in hopes that the Republicans would be appreciative and work in a bipartisan manner. They saw it as a weakness and the repub media (talk radio and Fox) attacked him for 8 yrs.
I hope Obama realizes they will go after him for anything and everything so please do the right thing and investigate,prosecute so the healing can begin.
05:25 PM on 01/05/2009
Lgilly, I'm sure you are not a partisan. Let me help you out a little. The democrats don't investigate, or prosecute because they know that there isn't much to find. If they did , the actions of clinton would come to light. Why do you think Sandy Burgler was stuffing documents down his pants? Besides, the dems would be knee-deep in the failures as well. Bush 41 didn't commit any crimes, and Clinton wouldn't dare make a mountain out of a mole hill, because what goes around, comes around. You must ask yourselves why the dems, which hate Bush so much, don't go after these so-called criminals? Because they are nice?????? Not on your life..
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02:32 PM on 01/05/2009
I seem to remember a little something called the "Nuremberg Principles," which were codified during the famous Trials by that name.

I also seem to remember that Japanese military officers were treated a little more abruptly: they were found guilty of torture (specifically, waterboarding...) and summarily shot in the head. Bang bang.

"Trial by torture" should have gone the way of the Salem Witch Trials, but when you are a fundamentally evil man and you have the power of a nation at your command (by virtue of being "any civil officer" of that nation's Government), you might consider yourself justified in committing War Crimes.

The Nuremberg Principles, however, clearly say that you are not. And I have utterly no doubt that the American People (as well as the people of the world at large) are unanimous in saying also that you are not.

Certainly, the world will look at this leadership and silently ask, "will you uphold Justice?" If the answer is "no," then a great many backs will be turned against the United States.

There are many things in this world that, if you lose them or forsake them, you can never get them back. "Trust" is one.
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MrBadger
02:05 PM on 01/05/2009
It would seem that the elephant in the room is that the use of torture has hopelessly compromised our ability to deal with these people under the law. Whether we like it or not, if we are to remain a country under law, we're going to have to acknowledge the error and... (yetch) release them. We should hold accountable those who made the decisions that lead to this disaster.
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Shahid Buttar
Civil rights lawyer, grassroots organizer, electro
05:31 PM on 01/05/2009
One implication of your comment is that torture undermined U.S. national security -- not only by (a) eroding our international reputation as the "good guys"; and (b) supporting terrorist recruitment by driving disaffected young people into the arms of militants; but also by (c) compromising the opportunity to secure legitimate convictions of some people who might conceivably present a security threat.

Ultimately, the question is whether we aim to defend a set of principles that define us as a nation (in which case torture and preventive detention entail a victory for militants far beyond what they could hope to achieve through force and intimidation), or whether we aim to project a vision of unapologetic power predicated on the principle that "might makes right." If our grand strategy as a nation entails representing a principled alternative to radical militancy (rather than simply a more militarily powerful one), we have no choice but to release people against whom we can not secure convictions.

Consider that yet another reason to prosecute Cheny et al. as traitors, rather than only as war criminals.
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MrBadger
07:16 PM on 01/05/2009
Yes, by all means. Our abandonment of our fundamental principles has compromised our national security and the very soul of our nation. The radical terrorists believe that we are a decadent and corrupt people and that all that is necessary is to give us a little shove and we will topple. Our response has been to go a long way toward confirming their opinions. As you say, they don't have to destroy our way of life, they just have to threaten us and we'll do their work for them. I pray that the next administration makes it a high priority to back away from the path we have started down.
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cckrueger
is a Presbyterian (USA) pastor in Texas.
12:17 PM on 01/05/2009
We should question those in leadership over us. I hope that policy of skepticism will continue as the new administration comes into office. Honestly, overall, I am more concerned about the USA and our rights here than I am about the rights of others, many of whom seem to want our destruction. I know some will call that short-sighted or even un-Christian thinking for a pastor. Sorry, but I am more concerned about the safety of my wife and children, including two USMC sons, than I am about the safety of others. We do need a long term solution with teeth. We will see what comes out of Washington in the months ahead.

Craig C. Krueger
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MrBadger
02:10 PM on 01/05/2009
It is certainly un-Christlike to be more concerned for your own well being than for those who may even be seeking your destruction. Look to the cross for an example.