iPhone app iPad app Android phone app Android tablet app More

Featuring fresh takes and real-time analysis from HuffPost's signature lineup of contributors
Barbara & Shannon Kelley

GET UPDATES FROM Barbara & Shannon Kelley
 

Ambition Gap and the Two Words Behind It

Posted: 03/16/2012 6:42 pm

We've been hearing a lot about the ambition gap lately: the fact that, as Sheryl Sandberg notes, only a paltry 15 to 18 percent of women occupy the top spots. But there's a dirty little secret that impacts the number of women who ultimately become leaders, or who hope to ascend to leadership positions, and it's this: many women believe -- or, sadly, find out the hard way -- that ultimately, they will have to choose between family and career.

I see this all the time in my current and former students. I have been told, a number of times, by talented young women, that they see me as something as a role model: I stayed home with my kids when they were young while I pursued a career as a freelance journalist and, when said kids fled the nest, began teaching at a university. What I want to tell them is that they're nuts. It wasn't easy and it didn't work nearly as well as it looks. And in fact, full disclosure here, I am one of those ambition gap stats.

The sad truth is that whether your dreams are to be a swashbuckling journalist or a high-rent CEO, your dreams -- at least in the way the workplace is currently structured -- are flat out incompatible with parenthood. And when that sharp reality slaps these talented women in the face, a lot of this incredible double-X talent backs off. Sometimes before they even have kids. Or even a marriage. They think that ultimately, they will have to choose. And how many are brave enough to face that choice?

Don't judge them, don't blame them. Because the question we haven't addressed is this: Why should women have to view their dreams as an either/or proposition? Men don't. Seems to me, if we want to narrow the ambition gap, what we need to do is talk about changing a culture that assigns women the bulk of the second shift as well as the need to reconfigure the workplace structure to one that is compatible with, well, life outside of work -- whether or not you have kids. Or as Gloria Steinem once so brilliantly said: "Don't think about making women fit the world -- think about making the world fit women."

And speaking of Steinem, she participated in a panel at the recent Women in the World conference in New York with Sandberg. And according to Business Insider, when Sandberg mentioned the lopsided numbers of women at the top of the game and asked: "Is this a stalled revolution?" Steinem replied:

We're at a critical mass stage so we're getting more resistance ... [And the U.S.] is the worst in the world at making it possible for parents to have a life outside the home.

Bravo. (There's also the fact that when men and women are deciding whose career gets precedence, it's often a matter of money. Men make more. But I digress.) And so, what I wonder is why the disconnect between work and life isn't the main issue when we talk about the ambition gap. All of which reminds me of a conversation we had with psychologist Barry Schwartz, the author of "The Paradox of Choice: Why Less Is More" and pretty much the guru of the psychology of choice, when we were writing our book. One of the things he told us was this:


It's worse in many ways for women than it is for men because of the great lie of the feminist revolution, which is not simply that women can do anything, but that women can do everything. There's a sense that men can think that too, but society hasn't changed enough for men to have the same kind of investment in their nurturing role as parents that women do. To have a high-powered career as a woman, every day is torture."

Schwartz told us that back when he and his wife were raising their kids, he took pains to tell his students that his family life was an anomaly:


I said, 'Listen, I have a job two blocks from my house, and I only have to be in the office six hours a week--the rest of the week, no matter how hard I work, I get to choose where and I get to choose when. You can't do this if one of you is a lawyer, the other is a doctor. So don't kid yourself. We got lucky. The world is not set up for this. You will discover it.'

And discover it, we do. And that should be the conversation. Speaking of which, we just got back from speaking at the Women's Leadership Conference at the Cunningham Center in Columbus, Georgia. We rode back to the airport with one of the other speakers, the transcendent Karen Walron , who had just written a post on this very issue. Check it out, especially the comments.


And then, join our conversation. Either/or? Or constructive change. You be the judge.

 
 
 

Follow Barbara & Shannon Kelley on Twitter: www.twitter.com/@undecidedbook

 
 
  • Comments
  • 84
  • Pending Comments
  • 0
  • View FAQ
Comments are closed for this entry
View All
Favorites
Recency  | 
Popularity
11:33 AM on 03/21/2012
If you and your spouse are going to have children, someone DOES need to make sacrifices. Yes, you could hire a nanny and you and your spouse could both work 60 hour weeks but that, to me, is selfish. Once you have children, your life changes and your priorities should change as well. One parent, and it can be either, does need to put the children first and be home with them as much as possible. Not every family can have a stay at home mom but I don't think a family can or should have two parents whose main focus is their careers.
07:48 PM on 03/20/2012
I was unemployed for three months, as a single father of two. My girlfriend didn't live with me, and her mom (who had been a stay-at-home mother all her life) asked me when I would get off my butt and get a job.

When a woman raises children, she's 'sacrificing' something, and it's noble. When a man stays home and takes care of his children, he's considered lazy. I asker her if she didn't believe in equal rights, or if she'd just been a lazy slacker for the last 30 years of her life.

Your 'ambition gap' works both ways.
07:37 PM on 03/20/2012
Make up your minds....what do you want? I'm glad to work while you get your 12 weeks of maternity leave only to return at the same place you left.....and then you expect a raise or promotion....nuts.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Newly Minted
03:13 PM on 03/20/2012
There wasn't an ambition gap with myself or the other women I know. We found out that it doesn't matter how hard you try or what you can achieve--despite the odds--when you work in a male-dominated field, you aren't going to get the monetary rewards or recognition that a man does for doing the same or lesser work. Until management sees women as equal workers (and pays them equally) in the first place, that's the way it's going to be.

The best thing for women to do is start their own business. At least you'll have a better chance to get paid what you are worth.
03:10 PM on 03/20/2012
"The sad truth is that whether your dreams are to be a swashbuckling journalist or a high-rent CEO, your dreams -- at least in the way the workplace is currently structured -- are flat out incompatible with parenthood. And when that sharp reality slaps these talented women in the face, a lot of this incredible double-X talent backs off. Sometimes before they even have kids. Or even a marriage. They think that ultimately, they will have to choose. And how many are brave enough to face that choice?"

Take out that word "women" and replace it with "men" or "people" and it's still true.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Minnesota Black
09:59 AM on 03/20/2012
If we want to change the expectations put upon women in society, I think we need to change the expectations put on the male role, as well. The other side of the female role being burdened with the expectation of being nurturer and homemaker is that men are pretty generally expected to do something, anything, else. This is to say, very few people (male or female) tend to be completely accepting and noncritical of a man who leaves the workforce to raise the kids.

In the end however, I don't even think it's societal pressure from the outside that bars most men from choosing to prioritize taking care of the home above anything else. The biggest problem would be that an ambitious and hardworking woman will likely find it difficult to accept or respect a man who shares little of her ambition. A man who was willing from the start to put any personal career aspirations on the backburner, to take care of his wife and kids ... in theory, that may sound quite good. But in practice?

I guess I mean, it seems that in general the male role still comes to some degree with the expectation of breadwinner. I think if we want to make it okay for women to prioritize being in the workforce, it will require the balancing change of allowing men to leave the workforce to become a homemaker, without social stigma.
photo
curtrice
VP-Research at Univ. of Tromsø
01:08 PM on 03/18/2012
Nice post. Coming from academia, I of course see this all the time, i.e. the belief of women doing PhDs that careers in academia require excessive sacrifice. And to a certain extent, there's something to that, but only in practice, not in principle. Excellence and the fast track are possible with balance, too. But we have a culture of over-working that makes long hours a status symbol, even when they don't lead to greater results. Changing this requires heavy lifting, building new cultures, convincing everyone that balance can make science better.
I write on these issues a lot at http://curt-rice.com
Recent posts of interest include:
Spanish professors are sexist: http://bit.ly/xG2WUl
Sometimes you just need a woman: http://bit.ly/xG2WUl
and many more.
keep up the great work!
09:59 AM on 03/18/2012
Just stay in illusion liberal media outlets.The ground realities might be different
09:06 AM on 03/18/2012
Men make that choice too. It is a little tiring, all these "articles" about womens "issues", that describe the same issues men face. What is the difference?
02:04 PM on 03/19/2012
Men don't have to face interviews where there's an assumption that in 3 to 5 years you'll be out of commission due to pregnancy, or just the need to be maternal.

Men don't have to face office cultures that make any physical limitations due to pregnancy difficult to overcome, so that you have to quit your job.

When a "critical mass" is reached of men who are doing the child-rearing and working is reached, we'll start hearing the same complaints from them, but right now, we're still basically at the status quo in a lot of industries because women are still the primary caretakers.
05:28 PM on 03/17/2012
Everyone has to make a choice. Maybe men don't even realize they are making it or they marry women who are willing to cater their careers. Yes women think it through, and I imagine men are beginning to. As more and more women refuse to stay at home (who would if he can leave you with no job skills and a work history that for the last ten years revolved around being a mom/housewife and now he doesn't have to pay any support), men will have to start making choices in a more deliberate way. I don't doubt it will make divorce more common than it is now. Now when one spouse is offered a transfer, why would the other agree to go? Women will be less and less likely to throw their careers away. It is a choice I won't ever make again. It is wonderful to put your family first, but since women can work, they are expected to do it all. It isn't worth the risk not to get tough. As women choose, so will men.
01:52 PM on 03/17/2012
The day I see only women working in the sewers, as garbage collectors, road crew, construction, doing all forms of manual labor. And of course dying 7 years earlier from being worked into an early grave while financially supporting men to stay at home, is the day I'll believe the plight of womens victimhood for being a stay at home parent.

Surely you must know that 999 out of 1000 men exist as manual laborers, laboring under extremely dirty and dangerous conditions. The world runs on the sweat, toil and blood of the men at the bottom. There are legions of men who are homeless, unemployed, subsisting on barely enough to survive. Why aren't all the women with careers snapping up all those men who would be extatic to escape crushing poverty to stay at home as a parent?

Further, I have off today, which is my homelife, the best part of my life. Virtually everyone looks forward to weekends because homelife is so much more pleasant and enjoyable. And if virtually everyone wishes to win a lottery so they can stay home all the time. How can homelife be considered an oppression?
04:08 PM on 03/17/2012
it is a long time ago that I last saw a man cleaning toilets at my workplace or in restaurant. #justsayin....
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
MissTake1989
Equal means equal, hypocrites.
08:52 PM on 03/17/2012
Too busy in the coal mines, maybe?
photo
Semprini
Stamp out and abolish redundancy
07:49 PM on 03/18/2012
How about school janitors? Cleaning services I've seen are split between male and female. How about addressing the rest of his post?
07:04 PM on 03/18/2012
That's funny because there are many men who work at office jobs.
01:41 PM on 03/20/2012
That's not the point he was making. The point is that all the dirtiest and most dangerous jobs are still occupied by mostly men. And he's upset at hearing how women complain about being forced to stay at home instead of working, when they wouldn't really want to take some of these jobs men have. They want to work but only in the nice safe jobs where they can make tons of money, not making minimum wage hauling somebody's smelly trash into a truck in the middle of summer.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
nix28
Ignorance stirs my inner demon...Sorry.
11:01 PM on 03/16/2012
"It's worse in many ways for women than it is for men because of the great lie of the feminist revolution, which is not simply that women can do anything, but that women can do everything."

I think that quote sums up the dilemma perfectly. As much as we women want to believe otherwise, we cannot do everything. And as much as many men want to believe, women can't do everything. It's just not possible to be the best worker, the best wife, the best mother, the best chef, the best housekeeper, the best teacher/tutor, the best friend, the best sister/cousin/daughter/etc simultaneously, and I think it's this mindtrap that gets women caught up. We confuse the ability to do anything with the ability to do everything.

Sure, it's possible for women to do a great many things, but how many of these things are we doing well and to the best of our ability? What is being sacrificed so that we maintain our careers or become the best mothers and wives and raise great kids? There aren't many professions that allow for both to be done well, not without immeasurable strain to the women juggling them. And when women aren't giving 100%, the immeasurable guilt follows, and women question themselves or are judged.

The only way to combat this problem is to reform society.
12:20 AM on 03/17/2012
amen.
03:51 AM on 03/17/2012
You can't reform society to make the most competitive roles less challenging. The very nature of a highly competitive role in a free market society is one of open competition. You can't put limits on how many hours every high level executive works in every company. If the higher ups in your competitor work harder and beat you in the market place they just might drive you out of business. Who would choose people who are less willing to work for the top jobs?

This is a impractical goal. Better to accept that women are freely choosing their families over high status jobs. We should be proud of them, instead of being disappointed they did not climb higher. There is more to life than being promoted in a fortune 500 and we should be happy they see that.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
TheLastLuddite
09:46 PM on 03/17/2012
Funny how so few GUYS choose their families over their high status jobs....

If it's such an admirable trait to do so, and it has no negative consequences, shouldn't we be shaming men for being so selfish as to want to rush to the top, rather than to stay home and flip pancakes like good decent parents/spouses do?
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
giftsthatpurr
zestful life
01:44 AM on 03/18/2012
Spoken from a person who does not freely choose staying home with the unpaid jobs and kids and hasn't a clue about what it is like to be female - just likes to disparage them.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
MissTake1989
Equal means equal, hypocrites.
08:34 PM on 03/16/2012
Or as Gloria Steinem once so brilliantly said: "Don't think about making women fit the world -- think about making the world fit women."

Why is that brilliant?

Would it be brilliant if a man called for the world to fit to them? (Actually, I'm pretty sure that the problem in the first place, remember?) Patriarchy? Oppression? Etc.

But the reverse is "brilliant".

What about "think about making the world fit everyone"?
03:46 AM on 03/17/2012
Men never made the world to fit them. The world was made to fit those on top who owned it. The rest were allowed to sustain themselves and their family by providing the ruling class with wealth and power through their labor. Growth through strong productive families benefited rulers and was encouraged. This system is still in place.

We focus more on growing the wealth of a few than we do the welfare of the many. We focus more on CEO jobs for women than we do with the general welfare of women. The measure of women in the workforce is how much more money the company will make. The feminist measure of a women is how much money and power she can attain.

For feminist the children are a after thought (like male desires), only brought to the front because real women choose children over money and power.

Why aren't feminist asking themselves why they are encouraging women to choose money and power over their families, instead of chasing the impractical goal of making the most competitive roles easier for women with families.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
MissTake1989
Equal means equal, hypocrites.
06:25 AM on 03/17/2012
Yep.

Feminists don't care about men, so they make no effort to distinguish the men at the top 1% of history from those who were ground under their heels.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
giftsthatpurr
zestful life
01:48 AM on 03/18/2012
Read the article - its about following your dream (which may not be about money, power and status, but STILL might not be about being the household drudge either.) Anti- woman people have a model they think women should follow and keep on trying to get them to follow it. Why not take a look at themselves and see how they can improve, grow, change and follow their dreams instead of expecting women to go backwards and sacrifice themselves for others all the time.