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Sharon Van Epps

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An Ugly Conversation

Posted: 06/08/2012 3:27 pm

Two weeks ago, my son, Gobez, adopted from Ethiopia, turned 10. His birthday happened to fall on an early release day from school, so we went out for a special lunch, just the two of us. We opted for our favorite Thai restaurant, mostly because of its proximity to the fabulous gelato shop where we planned to indulge in giant scoops of Oreogasmic afterward. Quality time like that is rare in our busy family of five, and, I have to admit, I was feeling pretty good about making it happen.

Inside the bustling restaurant, the hostess seated us at the only available table for two, located just a foot away from a middle-aged white couple. I didn't want to be so close to another party -- what if Gobez chewed with his mouth open or cracked a fart joke? And then there was the odd way that the woman looked at us as we sat down. She didn't seem hostile, exactly, but she'd noticed us, and her look made me feel on notice. We had no other seating options, so I tried to brush away my discomfort.

We placed our order: Pad Thai for Gobez, Spicy Chicken with Eggplant for me. Meanwhile, our neighbors chatted about work. We were so close, it was impossible not to overhear. I needed to use the restroom, so I handed Gobez my phone so that he could play a quick game of Pocket God while I was gone.

"Turn off the sound," I reminded him. "You don't want to disturb other people."

When I returned a few minutes later, my son appeared deep in an online game stupor. I sipped my water and tried not to listen to the next table's conversation, but there was no escaping it.

"He had gashes on the back of his head. He was bleeding," I heard the woman say.

"The 911 operator told him to stand down," said the man.

"What's he supposed to do if he's attacked?"

"If you start a bar fight, you know you're gonna get punched."

It took me a few seconds to process the exchange, but then it hit me: They're talking about Trayvon Martin. I'd seen the latest news photos of a bleeding George Zimmerman, the man accused of shooting Martin, an unarmed black teenager. Zimmerman's lawyers claim these injuries prove their client acted in self-defense after the teen attacked him, but to my mind, the boy had clearly been minding his own business until Zimmerman started trailing him out of suspicion through a suburban Florida neighborhood.

"Sounds like the kid threw the first punch." The tone of the woman's voice told me that she blamed Trayvon Martin for his own death.

I felt sick. Why were they talking about this with my son right here? Had the mere sight of my big-for-his-age African child sparked the ugly conversation?

I looked at Gobez, still seemingly engrossed in his game. Had he heard? Did he understand?

Although I talk to my kids about how to deal with racism, they're still young enough that I try to shield them from violent and sensational stories in the media. We don't watch TV news at home, though Gobez did catch one CNN report on a pizzeria TV when the case first broke. As far as I knew, that story had been his only exposure to the details of the tragedy, but who knows what he might have heard at school or at a friend's house? And so I faced a dilemma: Should I probe my son about what he might have understood about the restaurant conversation, souring his birthday, or convince myself that he hadn't heard a thing?

The waitress delivered our food. Inexplicably, she patted Gobez affectionately on the back as she left, almost as if she'd heard something awful, too, and wanted to comfort him. We began to eat, and I felt a rush of relief as the conversation next to us turned to fishing.

"Mom," Gobez said after awhile, "Can I get a fish for my birthday?"

I took a deep breath. Just because he's listening now doesn't mean he was listening earlier. My mind whirred with the insanity of the situation, even as the usual "No, you can't have a fish/parrot/lizard/pit-bull" speech came out of my mouth. I wondered if the couple next door was now eavesdropping on us. I silently screamed for them to GET OUT of the restaurant, but they took their time.

After our lunch plates had been cleared, Gobez declared himself too full for ice cream. I can count on one hand the number of times my son has been too full for anything but broccoli -- he typically eats enough for two grown men -- and I worried that he'd lost his appetite because of our neighbors' conversation. Then again, I consoled myself, he'd certainly cleaned up the Pad Thai.

At home, we rolled into our afternoon routine of homework and chores, and in the evening, more celebrating and lots of gifts. My son seemed happy. Normal.

I never said anything to Gobez about what happened in the restaurant. I couldn't even bring myself to tell my husband for several days; the shock and pain felt too deep. Even now, as I write this, I don't know how to put my pain into words. I know some will read this and think I overreacted, saying that couple's conversation had nothing to do with us. But I know better. Sometimes I wish I didn't.

 

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Two weeks ago, my son, Gobez, adopted from Ethiopia, turned 10. His birthday happened to fall on an early release day from school, so we went out for a special lunch, just the two of us. We opted for ...
Two weeks ago, my son, Gobez, adopted from Ethiopia, turned 10. His birthday happened to fall on an early release day from school, so we went out for a special lunch, just the two of us. We opted for ...
 
 
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12:51 AM on 07/27/2012
I have to ask this question. If it were a black couple having a discussion about this would it have been
that bad. Gosh, There are many people out there that are discussing this. Most I hope know how wrong it was. Was it bad because they were white? And you were waiting for them to leave the restaurant?
If it was so offensive I would have either said something to them or left with my child.
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stillstandingkickingbutt
Please, I have the floor
10:57 AM on 07/26/2012
Here yea Here YEA all of you who subtley drop racial comments cloaked in B words and N* words which get by? I will back you info a corner and read the comics to you? Why? There is nothing more rabid and uncouth as a coward who cannot say what he/she thinks without the N word or the B word Don't let me catch you with your drwas down?
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stillstandingkickingbutt
Please, I have the floor
10:35 AM on 07/26/2012
I have a son adopted from Kenya so? Now lets get real TRUTH sends falsehood running in cheap sneakers
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freshsquash
10:33 AM on 07/02/2012
Ok. You didn't even tell your husband for a few days the shock and pain was too deep? As a mother of a black child you owe him to be able to deal. Racism has surprised you. I suggest you begin to really try to understand what HE IS GOING TO BE UP AGAINST and already has had to deal with in subtle way at school and evberywhere. You volunteered for the job and YOU ARE EDUCATED. You can talk to different black community leaders (like Charles Blow) and friends and above all TALK TO YOUR SON. He needs your support. I am not yelling at you But, you must be strong for him. He deserves it and he needs you to know what he goes through, what he is facing and that you will try as hard as you can to understand and back him up no matter what. Understanding his situation is too important to remain in denial and that is why you wrote this article to get our advise. So that is mine. I have raised 5 mixed race children and racism is insideous. It infiltrates like dust. You must remain AWARE, for your son and your family. If you do, you will be able to navigate your way to help him navigate his way in life. Be brave and remain aware and do not let shock and pain silence you.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
OhMyGoodness
01:28 PM on 06/29/2012
Sharon, as an African American mother, I want to advise you not to attempt to shield your son from the racism that he will most certainly face at some point in his life. No matter what area you live in or what color his friends or parents are; one day it will find him. If he doesn't bring it up then I suggest you let it go. Did you overreact? No one can make that call but you. However, I caution you to resist the urge to shelter him from the harsh reality of racism in this country.
02:59 PM on 06/27/2012
Just wondering... if it had been a black elderly couple discussing the same topic, however they conversation would have been how Zimmerman should be linched for shooting that "poor child", would Ms Epps have been just as concerned over her son overhearing the conversation?

Remember: Racism is all around us, and its not just from the whites...
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freshsquash
10:40 AM on 07/02/2012
Good point but because her child is black he will be facing racism from whites. Make sense? Also, You seem to have some preconceived (and silly) notions about what black folks think and will say. Are you a racist?
I have faced racism from black people and take it with a grain of salt; it is too be expected because of the incredible horrors that black Americans have had to deal with for the past 400 years that just keeps on happening. You'd probably be pretty angry if you had to put up with that on a daily basis for a lifetime. Subjugation destroys lives. If your kid's life was ruine dbecause he was black and did everything right and yet was still lynched wouldn't you be angry? Perhaps you would teach your children to be suspicious of all whites? And then whe some bad things happened to them don't you think they would teach their children the same? Balck people have a reason. Whites do not.
04:41 PM on 07/02/2012
So black people being racists towards white people is justified because of the years of oppression, that happen quite a while back? Check your history book: Slavery - abolished. Segregation - abolished. Equal opportunity - granted.

I see many black men and woman in politics, professional sports, musicians, and still, all is mentioned about is what has occurred in the past, despite these talents being recognized for their gifts, not color.. I admire "anyone" who has excelled and not used "the past" as a crutch to defend their excuses in their everyday lives...

Yes, I a white, and I am raising both of my children to not have preconceived notions about ANYONE, regardless of their race.

Whites are not as racist as you might think... what is racist, however, from my standpoint, is the "black only" racism that exist today. Racism has been replaced with a double standard:

Black Entertainment Television
Miss Black America
blackpeoplemeet.com

Could the racist whites get away with this? I think not.
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Tail-Kinker
mod-con g33k, outdoors-gal, NRA member & patriot
07:49 AM on 06/26/2012
it's a shame that the writer has her mind made up about what happened. their conversation, to me, was just about recent events...how the woman sounded when she said anything, can always be miscontrued if you aren't used to the way some people talk or behave. maybe she had sand in her panties that day, and nothing was gonna make her look good at all...maybe she is racist...maybe she is the most decent and understanding person in the world. hearing parts of their conversation, tonal inflection, whatever, all of that aside, if your son brings it up, then by all means discuss it openly and honestly. it's more than likely that because, as you said, you don't allow news to be watched - your son probably does not even know about the martin/zimmerman incident...
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freshsquash
10:43 AM on 07/02/2012
If he is 10 years old he has already heard about it at school and probably heard the point of veiw that zimmerman was the hero. Sad but true.
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Tail-Kinker
mod-con g33k, outdoors-gal, NRA member & patriot
04:02 PM on 07/02/2012
yes, sad - but i don't think either Zimmerman or Martin were heroes...that should be the focus - Zimmerman should not have done what he did in the first place...i place blame fully on him...and, depending on the circumstances, because i don't know what happened for sure (only witness accounts) - both men could have walked away - and chose not to...
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freshsquash
10:47 AM on 07/02/2012
It was talked about at my son's school that way and we live in a supposedly "tolerant" area. My son set the kids who said anything to him about GZ being a "hero" straight, right away with some discussion he had run by me the days after we knew it would blow up at school. If anything my son is stronger for being able to talk about the rascism as it occurs time and time again in his young life.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Tail-Kinker
mod-con g33k, outdoors-gal, NRA member & patriot
03:25 PM on 07/02/2012
"that" way?  my original point is that there is no way to know what the lady meant...yes, she could have been a racist-tramp...she might not have been...just because someone sides with Zimmerman doesn't make them racist - uninformed, naive, perhaps - but not necessarily racist. 
01:12 PM on 06/25/2012
Mrs. Epps, please ignore the comments of those who say you overreacted. You are a mother, and as such, you will worry about your child and how he is affected by the world around him no matter what.
Regardless of whether or not their conversation was prompted by the sight of Gobez, your concern for how the Trayvon Martin case will affect him is in the forefront of your mind.
It's probably best that you did not bring it up on his birthday, but it is a conversation you will eventually need to have with him. It does not serve your son to try to shield him from the harsh realities of the world forever. Your son regardless of how he was raised or by whom, is a black man,. And whether society chooses to acknowledge it or not, there is still, for lack of a better term, a certain stigma that comes along with that. Even though the world has changed quickly since the days of Jim Crow laws & despite having a black president in office, their are still people who will clutch their purses when a he passes, officers who will still pull him over while driving a nice car, and overzealous neighborhood watchmen who will follow him home because they suspect he is up to no-good. These are the realities of the society in which we live. Gobez will discover them with or without your loving guidance; with your guidance will be much easier.
09:43 PM on 06/26/2012
Thanks for taking time to read and comment. I appreciate that so many readers like you have tried to encourage me to talk to my son about important issues around race -- and I do. Since this piece was published several weeks ago, we've even spoken about the Trayvon Martin case when it has come up in other contexts. With more time to reflect on what happened that day in the restaurant, I still feel uncomfortable about the conversation I was forced to hear, but I don't think my son tuned in to what the conversation was about, or felt any discomfort. You are absolutely right that we can't shield our kids forever, and have to support and empower them.
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warmonkey
11:00 AM on 06/25/2012
" I know some will read this and think I overreacted, saying that couple's conversation had nothing to do with us."
Well, you probably have overreacted , and the conversation most likely had nothing to do with you.
You are not gonna have to wait very long to answer questions about racist people- it is nothing that you can shield a child from- my white children had questions .
He is only 10- may I make a suggestion? When he is confused and upset by racist comments/actions/ people- you will know it. Just be matter-of -fact when they are little.
I said to my sons, " Yes, there are some people who are like that. They were probably raised like that, and they know no better. We know better, and we are not like that."
Of course- they already will know that by how you live your life
xirger
"MY MICRO-BIO IS EMPTY!!!??"
01:28 PM on 06/18/2012
Maybe Ms. Epps should have brought the subject up with her son when they left the restaurant. She could have asked him if he overheard them. If he had, she could have further asked what he knew about The Trayvon Martin case. She may have been enlighted by his comments.
If he had overheard the exchange: Ms. Epps could have told her son that those two people at the next table were a good example of how two people who are obviously friends/associates, can go out ,enjoy lunch with each other; yet still have two entirely different opinions on an incredibly volatile subject; All the while remaining calm about it and not getting hot-headed, nasty and without the use of vulgarities. Despite the difference of opinion of the two neighboring diners; It almost seemed like a lesson in Civility. If she thinks this conversation was something that was traumatic for him, Ms. Epps has a rough road ahead of her. A kid can find it a lot tougher if they have to first untwine apron-strings before they learn to walk.
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freshsquash
10:57 AM on 07/02/2012
Ummm "apron strings"? I think Sharon Van Epps is a really good mom who just didn't know what to do because she was caught by surprise. Luckily she is able to write about this stuff and get tons of advice. It seems she has made some progress on the situation and learned from it and everyone's advise and comments. Her kid will be just fine and "apron strings" will be the least of his problems.
xirger
"MY MICRO-BIO IS EMPTY!!!??"
04:40 PM on 07/03/2012
With all due respect; I think you missed the 'apron string' metaphor. I think Ms. Van Epps is a good mom too; but no mother should be over-protective. I have met several children who have had such and almost all are somewhat 'screwed up' adults as a result. Just my opine. All the best.
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Jasel
Nurse
12:48 PM on 06/18/2012
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the majority of naysayers to Ms. Epps articles are White and have no idea what it's like raising a Black, especially Black male child, in this country.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
royofan
Obama sez-"If u c something suspicious, speak up"
05:19 PM on 06/18/2012
How about you educate us white folks on how that is so we learn?

You could start with what's appropriate to talk about when there may be a black child somewhere in the vicinity with a mother overhearing our conversation.

And if you have any insight on it, let us know what's appropriate to talk about when any other child who is not black is around.
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Jasel
Nurse
08:21 PM on 06/19/2012
IMO you can't educate people who seem to believe they know everything anyway. It's not a matter of educating individuals so much as not writing off someone's opinion or perspective when you not only can't imagine yourself in their or someone else's shoes, you don't even bother trying.

Disagreement is one thing. The typical knee jerk defensiveness absent of any critical thought, which was clearly on display among many of these comments, is something else entirely. And is a large part of the problem when it comes to discussions regarding racial matters in this country and is one of the reasons race relations remain stagnant/regressive instead of moving forward.
01:32 AM on 07/11/2012
Why not educate yourself? Do you need to worry about how others will perceive your child simply because their skin color is darker? My guess is that you do not.
10:23 AM on 06/21/2012
The dangers for black male children in this culture do not come from overhearing white people discussing the news in Thai restaurants. Of all the many, serious problems black males face, I cannot believe this minutia is what gets written about/discussed with indignation.
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freshsquash
11:10 AM on 07/02/2012
She has to deal with the "minutia" just like anyother mother of a black child will have too so, that is why she is writing about it. When he gets "stop and frisk" ed, then we will hear about that I am sure. What shoudl be a point of discussion is that she seems unaware fo these issues and is not coming out of denial enough to actually advocate effectively for her son.
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Anti-Politics
Having only two parties is the problem
12:54 PM on 06/17/2012
Maybe you just should not go out in public if you are so concerned about what people are talking about.The discussion you were able to hear sounded like a normal discussion about an event.There are probably more unhealthy things on TV for children than were in the discussion you overheard. Part of life is being able to handle things that are unpleasant.
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Alex0393
Are you people for real?
12:18 PM on 06/17/2012
You'll have to forgive me but it seems to me that the preassumed feelings here do not belong to the couple behind you but rather to you. I see nothing wrong here, instead I see someone doing their best to victimize themselves and their children over nothing. As I read the story I kept waiting for the part where they made a bad comment to you or your son but it never came to that. It may be best if you stayed home
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Eldridge Woods
03:59 PM on 06/16/2012
There's nothing wrong with the couple having the discussion. They seemed to be having a civil discussion. At least no one was assasinating TM's character with the "T" word amongst other things.
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Judy75201
Ms. "No Limit" Knicker
10:03 AM on 06/16/2012
Seeing how the murder of Trayvon Martin is so ever-present and important, I doubt that your son was the reason it was being discussed.