The Immigration Proxy Wars Continue

There are many good reasons to fix our broken immigration system this year. But there is one reason that may end up driving Congress to act this year more than any other: the growing weariness of lawmakers as the year moves on of battling over immigrants and immigration on issue after issue, something I call the immigration proxy wars.

Our broken immigration system is a national disgrace, yet another terrible vexing governing challenge left over from the disastrous Bush era. Legitimate workers have a hard time getting legal visas. Employers knowingly hire and exploit undocumented workers. Our immigrant justice system is a moral outrage. And of course, the scapegoating of the undocumented migrant has become the staple for right-wing politicians and media, giving them something to rail against as the rest of their agenda has collapsed all around them. It is long past time to fix this broken system and replace it with a 21st century immigration system consistent with traditional American values and the needs of our modern ideas-based economy.

This year we have seen how this national failure has infected debates about other vital national priorities. SCHIP was held up. The stimulus was loaded up with a provision to use our broken and dangerous worker verification system that would undoubtedly disrupt the orderly flow of money to the states. And now Judd Gregg withdraws in part over the coming battle over the Census next year, which we know will include an effort by the right to exclude undocumented workers from the every 10-year head count of those living in the United States. Any future legislative initiative at the federal or state level that confers benefits to a population could conceivably invoke a battle over immigrants: will states require schools receiving school construction money from the stimulus to validate that only legal kids are covered with it? Will families who want to weatherize their homes have to prove their legal status? Will kids getting a laptop in a demonstration project have to prove their legitimacy? And of course, moving on universal health care coverage will require the immigration system to be fixed first. Passing comprehensive immigration reform may very well be the key that unlocks progress on a wide variety of other domestic challenges.

State judicial and law enforcement systems across America are already overwhelmed by the murky problems of our broken and irrational system. Schools and health care providers are desperate to not become an arm of the immigration police. Mexico's drug problems are growing in severity, and will raise the importance of a comprehensive solution to removing any illegal activity from the border region. Next year, the Census is likely to become one long and huge fight about undocumenteds and immigrants if the system is not fixed this year, perhaps even causing years of future battles over the legitimacy of the count if it includes the undocumenteds (which it clearly should). And the proxy wars in Congress and in the states will continue. There is simply no way to duck this one, wish it away. Inaction is not an option any longer. By the fall, the pressure on lawmakers and the President to address a very visible national problem, and the fatigue of battling this out in proxy war after proxy war, will create a climate in which progress on this tough issue I think will be more than possible.

To talk more about this compelling national challenge, come join NDN next Thursday, February 19, for a forum, Making the Case: Why Congress Should Pass Immigration Reform This Year. For those not in DC, we will be Web casting it live and recording it for future review. Stay tuned to the NDN blog for more information about both.

Cross-posted at the NDN blog.

Comments

[randyjet]

The FACT is that most Mexican Americans do NOT want more illegals or more immigrants from Mexico. My neighbor in McAllen was a legal Mexican immigrant who went through all the process. He was a skilled auto mechanic who earned only $8/hr because there was NO E-verfiy system where he worked, and most of his co-workers were working illegally since they lived in Reynosa and were Mexican citizens.

I was in Laredo last year when they called for a demonstration against the border fence. The mayor supported it, there were leaflets all over town, it was on a weekend, and they got only 50 people. THAT is NOT big support folks. The ONLY people who hate the fence or crackdown on illegals are the EMPLOYERS. They are also the biggest political contributors as well. So guess how the Reps will vote? They don't care that the regular folks in their district get lousy wages because of all the commuter workers.

The FACT is that it is the less skilled brown, black, and white workers who get hit the hardest. It is NOT liberal to toss those folks onto the garbage heap and not give a damn about them. I am for the AMERICAN worker, black, brown, white who has the RIGHT to work here.

[papapj]

Let me show you some FACTS randy;

Fully 63 percent of Americans now support legalization of immigrants who have lived here for a certain number of years. This is from an actual opinion poll, randy - not something just dragged out of thin air.

FACT.

http://tinyurl.com/m7gfw

Your statement regarding Ellis Island is also false as the only requirement of the majority of EUROPEAN immigrants once getting off the boat was good health and proof of ability to pay their own way.

FACT.

http://tinyurl.com/aq8khr

That you have nothing to substantiate your argument other than the anecdotal rubbish regurgitated by most racists is reason enough to cast doubt on your specious rationale.

You would be better served by using facts instead of projecting your own odious racist dogma upon those who know better.

America is changing and the Eurocentric power structure is crumbling - get with it, or die off like all the other dinosaurs...

[randyjet]

Thank you for giving me laughs today. I read the article and for those who did NOT, it states that 84% of Americans are VERY concerned about the costs of illegal immigrants. It all depends on how you word questions as to the answers you get. From that little part of concern i can see that the question about length of time in being here had some funny parts to it. It gets even funnier when the article quotes LAWYERS as to the economic impacts. Also, since the last amnesty, there was MASSIVE fraud as to how long illegals had been here. If you want a REAL question, you should ask the American people, Should the US government take only the WORD of the illegal as to how long they have been in the US to determine if they are eligible? I KNOW you will get a FAR different answer!

You haven't even the wit to realize that you validated what I said about the FACT that all those who came via Ellis Island were LEGAL immigrants. They did not send that many back, but that STILL does NOT invalidate the FACT that the US ALLOWED them to come in. UNLIKE illegals who spit on our laws and the right of the American people to decide who may enter.

[papapj]

Fully 63 percent of Americans now support legalization of immigrants who have lived here for a certain number of years. This is from an actual opinion poll, randy - not something just dragged out of thin air.

FACT.

Your statement regarding Ellis Island is also false as the only requirement of the majority of EUROPEAN immigrants once getting off the boat was good health and proof of ability to pay their own way.

FACT.

That you have nothing to substantiate your argument other than the anecdotal rubbish regurgitated by most racists is reason enough to cast doubt on your specious rationale.

You would be better served by using facts instead of projecting your own odious racist dogma upon those who know better.

[Pippen]

The Immigration issue is going hard core liberal this term because it's a poltical football. Until the vast majority of Spanish speaking US Citizens start supporting US Laws about immigration enforcement, don't look for any improvement in keeping illegals out or off the free medical rolls or out of degraded jobs.

Political Correctness is a poisonous viral infection in this country and it's going to continue.

Everyone wants whats best for these families but we want it in context of the U.S. Constitution and the Federal Law as it's already been written. To completely ignore the law about immigration is the same as giving George Bush a free pass on Torture. We're either hypocrits without credibility or we're U.S. Citizens with devotion to our founding principles.

Even the GOP's are courting the Latino vote. And Latinos overwhelmingly vote for liberal non-imposing free immigration without documentation or consequence. They want the flood gates opened wide and flotation devices handed out to the entire country of Mexico.

[Henryk A. Kowalczyk - Huffpost Blogger]

Constitutionality of the current immigration law can be easily challenged
http://www.henrykkowalczyk.com/Smiths_vs_Joneses.htm

[randyjet]

I am a liberal Democrat and worked, gave money, and voted for Obama. Also, I am VERY much opposed to ANY amnesty for illegals and for STRONGER enforcement of our immigration laws. That includes deportations for all those who are caught. My postion is the SAME as that of Rep. Barbara Jordan who was the head of Clinton's panel on immigration reform. THAT is the liberal position on immigration. You will find that most liberals such as myself are the majority in this. So it is wrong to think that only the right wing and xenophobes are against illegals. It is the majority of the American people, and I can assure you, that Congress will be flooded with protests again if an amnesty is tried again. It will NOT pass Congress. Enforcement WILL pass. If it does NOT, Democrats will lose our majority.

[Henryk A. Kowalczyk - Huffpost Blogger]

Give me one reason why a foreigner who can find a job here should not be allowed to do it legally? Why we just do not issue this person a tax number and let him or her work here? Give me one reason for the law that created 12 million (or maybe even more) of illegal immigrants?

[scooperss]

I guess you've never heard of the United States of America. It's not the United States of Everyone Who Wants To Sneak Across The Border.

You need to be in these other countries advocating for these immigrants to have jobs in their homelands.
We can't afford the whole world when we have people here freezing/starving to death because there is no work or they have no money.

[papapj]

You only speak for yourself, randy and all White European Americans who fear yet more erosion of their dominant power structure. That you cannot answer the question posed several times on this thread by Henryk as to why you should object to anybody working productively in this country is telling, but not suprising as it is indicative of the true, more latent fear behind the rationale posed in your answer.

Intellectualism be damned. There's no baffling some of us with your boolsheeaat.

The real reasons amount to nothing more than a xenophobic fear of being drowned out by other cultures. This fear knows no political affiliation and is shared by left and right.and is a manifestation of the incipient demographic indicating the browning of America. There was no such brouhaha at the turn of the 20th century when European Americans arrived here in droves on Ellis Island and elsewhere - penniless and UNDOCUMENTED, yet were still incorporated into the American family, successfully. The only difference is now, some of us are quite willing to pull up the plank and deny the opportunity to others of darker hue..

You don't speak for liberals, randy - you speak for a petrified White America and Americans of color who are selfishly acting like crabs in a barrel.

[randyjet]

I DO speak for liberals and YOU speak for RACISTS who think that being Latino is a right to come to the US. I actually lived on the border for many years and most of the people there do NOT support illegals coming here. By the way,all my neighbors were Hispanic, and they really did NOT like the illegals since they drove their wages down. I will be retiring to the valley because I and my wife love the culture there. Since I support Rep. Jordans position, I guess that means that SHE was also a racist too?

The FACT is that all the immigrants who came via Ellis Island were LEGALLY admitted, and they turned LOTS of them away too. They put a number of them back on the boat. The FACT is that the US admits over 1 MILLION LEGAL immigrants/yr. That is hardly pulling up the plank. If you look at opinion polls, you will find that my position is the majority position in both parties. It is only the racists of your kind who think that being a US citizen means nothing and that WE as citizens have NO rights to say who may come here and that RACE is more important than citizenship. YOU do NOT see your fellow citizens as that, but ONLY on a RACE based loyalty. THAT is why YOU are a racist.

[scooperss]

So approximately every 25 years or so we're supposed to give legal status to anyone and everyone who manages to sneak across our borders?

Been there, done that and that's why we now have more illegal immigrants than EVER before in this country. The solution is NOT amnesty, if's enforcement of our laws.
Or in 25 more years, there will be 50+ million more illegal immigrants here EXPECTING amnesty.

And seriously do you expect all the employers of illegal immigrants to suddenly stop hiring them after the ones they have working for them now are given amnesty?
No, these people after amnesty was bestowed, would be replaced with new illegal workers who SURPRISE, work for less.

And the cycle begins anew.

[TerrapinCB]

Adjusted Gross Income $ 47,534.00
Federal | Taxable Income $ 34,793.00
Total Tax $ 5,038.00

My younger bro's tax info. He had about $9K of deductions (personal deduction and house loan interest and property tax) to decrease his taxable income to $34K. On that $34K he paid $5k in taxes to the IRS. No state income tax here in TX.

So please tell me where these non tax filing illegals pay their $5K in taxes to the federal govt. on their $34K of income. Please?

[TooManySecrets]

well, $34K averages out to be approx. $17/hr before taxes.

Let's take that $5K in taxes to the IRS and for argument sake, multiply that times how many illegals are here. Granted, not all of them make that, some make more, and some don't make any. But for sake of argument.

$5k x 20,000,000 illegals (just averaging) = $100,000,000,000

Gee that would sure help wouldn't it. Then do the math for the states that have income tax and what the taxes would be.........

[randyjet]

About half of the illegals work for cash and are off the books. So even if they become legal, they will STILL pay NO taxes, but they WILL be LEGAL for ALL the benefits of US citizens. This legalization will KILL any chance at health care reform too. It will also act as a magnet to draw MORE illegals into the US. We cannot provide jobs, health care and education for the ENTIRE WORLD.

Try and THINK for a change!

[TerrapinCB]

I meant if you AREN'T native American

[TerrapinCB]

Come here to Tejas (Texas to most of you) and if you are in the construction, painting, drywall, plumbing, etc. fields you ARE screwed. You will NOT be able to complete with the prices charged.

I lost my house in hurricane Ike, and I have friends from there who can't get work fixing that mess because of all of the illegals. It's not just the illegals, it's the damn companies that hire them. The have an instant leg up on legit companies. No health care, no legit wage, no taxes, etc. Sure undercuts your business.

Then, try to understand why (thank God there is no specific state income taxes) you taxes are paying the food, medical, law enforcement, etc. because of the illegals (not just mexicans) that are here. Yeah about paying taxes, we all pay sales tax, but screw that. Being paid under the table in cash sure eliminates FICA, Soc. Sec., and a host of other taxes a legit worker pays. I may have heritage from outside the US (which we all do if you are native American) but most of our fore fathers did get here legally. There WAS enforcement years ago.

This benefits only one thing, big business and it will not change until we get the cash out of our politics.

[TJCole]

Check out George Friedman and his book and video The Next Hundred Years it was recommended by Fareed Zakaria...

Very interesting and much of it focuses on conflict between Mexico and America and whether we shall preserve it as we have known it...

It also claims the American era has hardly begun...

[MARTYB]

Deport, period. Illegal aliens have no right to be here and that BIG LIE that they are doing the jobs
Americans won't do really needs to be retired. I go by construction sites here in California and not a word of English is being spoken, not a black or white face to be seen. Those jobs used to go to college students during the summer for tution and ex-cons who decided that prison was not the way to go. The wages were good enough to to put food on the table +, but now American workers are being undercut by "illegals", why pay a guy/gal $20.00 an hour when you can get an "illegal" to do it for $12.00 or less?

[papapj]

That's not gonna happen. Americans have shown that they're not willing to man abattiors, clean offices and houses, or do any of the other menial tasks assiciated with minimum wage. If the market place didn't need foreign workers, they'd not be here. Period. It's not a matter of undercutting anybody, it's what a market wage will sustain profiatbility - go ask any of those employers you cite wether they'd be willing to fork out $20 per hour for what they can now get for $12, they'd go bust in a hurry and thereby not be in any position to provide the goods and services demanded by we Americans at the relatively cheap prices we get them for.

[nee]

So I guess you are in favor of bring back slavery.

[Mares]

Show us where Americans have shown that, papapj? Let's see your proof!

Americans have not walked away from those jobs. In the midwest and south, American citizens, including black Americans worked in those jobs in chicken, beef and pork processing plants, and still would have, had their employers not fired them, so they could hire illegal aliens instead. Illegal aliens who were paid far less per hour. Citizens were paid 18 to 20 per hour for those jobs, ilegals 8 to 10 dollars per hour, and the cost of the food produced by that cheaper foreign labor hasn't been cheaper, in fact it's risen dramatically higher. It was an example of the wealthy getting fatter by stealing from citizen worker. Take their jobs away, their means of support and pocket more money by displacing citizens with illegal aliens.

Then, the illegal aliens and their lobbyists demand welfare and other services be used to supplement those cheaper wages. The wealthy and businesses now pay very little taxes, many get tax deals from cities and states, so they aren't burdened by the increases that fall on the backs of citizens. Our welfare, food stamp, housing subsidies programs are being used as a corporate welfare program, subsidizing the cheaper foreign labor, that allows businesses and the wealthy who violate our laws and harm our fellow citizens to get away with a cheap foreign labor force paid substandard wages.

[Henryk A. Kowalczyk - Huffpost Blogger]

Ironically, meticulous enforcement of our immigration laws can be very effective. If we would seriously chase and deport as many illegal immigrants as we can, we can reach that critical mass that the message would be blunt and clear, and within the next 6 months, half of all illegal immigrants could leave the country.

This would cause even deeper contraction of the economy, the unemployment would raise, so fearing persecution, employers would become more vigilant, and would be firing illegal immigrants still here, so even more of them would leave the country. Weakening of the U.S. economy would strengthen Asia so gradually the gravity of the world financial market would move to Shanghai or Mumbai, which would become the new Wall Street. The Silicon Valley would move to Malaysia or Singapore. To protect essential U.S. national interest, U.S. government would establish laws preventing scientists, experts, and industrialists from leaving the country. Agents, well trained in chasing and catching illegal immigrants, would be used to catch and forcefully retain Americans trying to escape the country illegally. The wall on the Mexican border, would become handy to catch professors and software engineers from escaping to Mexico. Am I fantasizing?

No, this is exactly what happened in the Soviet Union. Just after the revolution, they believed that they established the paradise on Earth and their first immigration law was to ban foreigners from coming. The real face of this way of thinking showed up later.

[Mares]

No, enforcing our immigration laws, rounding up, deporting would not cause a contraction in our economy. As it's been proven, when employers are caught with illegal employees, especially large amounts of them, the citizenry in the local area turn up en masse to apply for those jobs. The last two examples of this, the local media in the areas actually reported on that fact. Citizens, who happen to be black, brown and white applied for and got the jobs, and told the media that they had been applying for those jobs for years, but discriminated against because they were American citizens. It was the reason in one instance, when the feds walked illegal aliens out of a factory after a raid, the handful of citizens who still had those jobs, cheered, because they knew that their friends and families in the area desperately needed those jobs.

[brooklyncitizen]

This doomsday post makes absolutely no sense.

We have a HIGH unemployment rate- jobs vacated by illegals would be filled by people that need work. All sorts of people do all sorts of jobs for different reasons; having an education doesn't preclude one from taking a construction job, or working in a restaurant, especially if you are an artist/mus­ician/acto­r etc.Unemployed Americans simply cannot find anything to keep it going.

No one is talking about "banning foreigners". Legal immigration is great....I'm a legal immigrant now a citizen (though I had no choice in either instance).

There's also the exploitation of professional immigrants without permanent visa status.Companies exploit these workers (notably in Architecture/Design firms) while they undergo the onerous process of being sponsored for a visa/green card . They are often held hostage by the particular employer while they wait for the visa which takes a really long time.The Architecture profession is particularly abusive- most employed are foreigners and I've wondered where the African American or Latino American architects work- at the top design firms if there is a person of color he is typically a foreigner. Lastly Asians are especially susceptible since they are perceived as non-challenging and work the many long hours required to produce design under tight schedules.

Immigration is more than Mexicans taking low-paying jobs cooking food and picking strawberries.THe reason it is "broke" is that all companies have benefited in one way or another.

[NABNYC]

I'm with Marty B. Deport illegals except for very long-term residents who apply for and receive equitable relief. All the nonsensical claims about how "we" profit from illegal immigrants are similar to the claims about how "we" profit from Nafta. What we? Not me. Not most working people. Just like Marty said, 30 years ago construction workers were Americans, and earned $18-25/hour. Laborers were less trained, often black, and earned $10-12/hour. They've all been thrown out of work and replaced with illegal immigrants at $8/hour. The "savings" on labor goes into the pockets of the developers. My neighbors, former construction workers, now work in retail for $8/hour. In addition, illegal immigrants have sent back a minimum of $25 billion/year to Mexico for the past 10 years (I think $60 billion in 2008) which is money that, if the job was done by an American, would have been spent inside the U.S., but instead it's sent to Mexico.

The only people who profit from illegal immigrants are the business owners who really want to simply bring back slavery to the U.S. Of course they like it. Of course their economist friends can calculate the "benefits" to "us" of having cheap labor. But it's not us that's benefitting: it's just the rich folks. The rest of us are big losers.

[SonnyBono]

Pop quiz for all - Name (in order the three countries in the world with the highest population)

Answer - China, India, and (drum roll, please) the United States of America

Since we have such a high population - without counting the number of illegal aliens, why should we consider letting more people into this country - when we can't provide jobs for the people that are already here - when we don't provide health insurance for the Americans?

The immigration problem is caused in large measure by the misguided notion that the conditions that were in effect in the late 19th Century are still around and by the knee jerk response that illegal immigrants are doing jobs that Americans don't want to do - well, not at those wages.

Don't forget that the original inhabitants of this country were unable to control immigration into their lands - maybe we should ask them how that worked out for them?

[Henryk A. Kowalczyk - Huffpost Blogger]

Who is "we" in your statement: "we can't provide jobs for the people that are already here"?

Who provided jobs for immigrants for the first few hundred years, before the U.S became the world wealthiest country? Who provided jobs before Americans as you are decided that they do not need to roll up sleeves and create jobs for themselves, but expect it to be given to them on the gold plate, preferably?

[nee]

We're not talking about jobs for "immigrants". We're talking about ILLEGAL ALIENS taking jobs from American citizens and "legal immigrants".

[SonnyBono]

You are obviously blinded by your own preconceived ideas - providing jobs is not welfare - it is providing the opportunity to earn a living - businesses will not hire a legal resident when they can get the job done cheaper by an illegal - just look at the toxic effect of the undocumented labor pool along the US-Mexican border on wages in America. The main difference now is that the effect is spread out across the entire United States.

Not everyone has land that he can farm or the skill set necessary to start their own businesses - some of the rest of us have to sell our labor and skills to existing companies. No one is talking about being given anything except an opportunity - my main point is that things have changed from the way they were in the 19th and early 20th Centuries in this country. The low wages caused by illegal immigrants have a negative effect on all of us - well, except for those that take advantage of those people. For example, illegals who are working do not usually get medical insurance, when they have a medical emergency, they go to the local hospital emergency room and probably don't pay for the services - so the local tax payers are left holding the bag.

Maybe if you stopped to look at the big picture, you wouldn't be so quick to respond with your built in bias.

[mogran]

The immigration problem has been compounded by the fact that the Supreme Court rule that no matter your status in the United States we much educate these children. After the job invitation, this was the second invitation offered to break our laws. The third is all children born on U.S. soil is a citizen. What incentive do they have to stay or return home. Our very own legal system is working aganist us. We are giving away to many freebies.

[Henryk A. Kowalczyk - Huffpost Blogger]

Mr. Rosenberg is right reminding us that us that our immigration system "is a national disgrace". However, it is not "another terrible vexing governing challenge left over from the disastrous Bush era." It is possible that history will judge Bush’s presidency as disastrous; however, on the immigration issue he a least tried to do the right thing.

Immigration mess reaches back to the restrictive immigration law of 1925. It carries the nonsense of the family reunion concept, introduced in 1965. It passes to us not finished reform of 1986, when Reagan could not lift immigration limits, and settled for laws punishing employers of illegal immigrants, knowing that these kind of laws never could be effectively enforced in the U.S., as they are Soviet in their nature.

I agree with Mr. Rosenberg that "Passing comprehensive immigration reform may very well be the key that unlocks progress on a wide variety of other domestic challenges."

What troubles me is that he asks for a "21st century immigration system" but does not tell us what it should be.

I have a challenge for the NDN Forum next Thursday, February 19; please prove me that the Freedom of Migration Act
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/henryk-a-kowalczyk/the-freedom-of-migration_b_164505.html
is not the right solution. Or, present an alternative solution, that could be evenly concise, precise, and logically coherent.

[mogran]

the only reason the system is broken is because our government want enforce the laws already on the books. If our officials stop looking at their next best chance at re-election and start enforcing the law, the system would no longer be broken.

[NCRDIBULL]

e-VERIFY would be a great tool.... Our immigration law enforcement is disgracefull...

[Henryk A. Kowalczyk - Huffpost Blogger]

We have ridiculous immigration laws, as much good and as much respected as the Prohibition was. The government could not enforce them, so bureaucrats invented E-Verify that boils down to turning every employer into a not paid government agent. E-Verify means the government attempt to force citizens to police the laws that at least half of the citizenry wants to change. (Not mentioning that when it comes to cutting our grass, most of us do not respect these laws.) E-Verify it is a small step in the direction of creating a police state.

[Mares]

No, e-verify is not the implementation of a step in aid of a police state. Every American citizen who is hired, is required to show ID and a social security number. Those citizens status have in the past, we are told been verified. The lack of enforcement has lead to an eradication of such verification, and lead to citizens ID and ss#'s being stolen, or others being faked, at tremendous cost to those whose identity has been stolen.

E-verify is virtually 100% accurate, it's not a national ID system either. It's free and quick to use. It cuts out the middle man, where the employer submits a prospective employee's information into a government database, and confirms their legitimacy as a legal worker in the US. It has had very few mistaken readings. Nor is it difficult for a citizen or legal immigrant any difficulty in proving their legitimacy. Citizens have ID's, birth records, school records, etc.. legal immigrants have a huge backlog of paper work to document their legitimacy. They are provided with ID and other documentation that they know to take with them at all times, as well as folders worth of paper work at home. No citizen, or legal immigrant could get work, cash any check, rent an apartment, buy a house, have utility services or very much of anything else without such ID, so claims to the contrary are patently false and misleading.

[absolutelyInsane]

E-Verify is a start. The only thing wrong with our immigration laws now is, illegal immigrants and employers who hire them don't like it.

[nee]

Those who hire ILLEGAL ALIENS should get jail time and be heavily fined. All ILLEGAL ALIENS should be deported. We spend BILLIONS to provide health care and education to people who don't belong here. It's time we use that money on our own citizens.

[devadasi]

As a progressive democrat, this is one area where I am in total agreement with you NEE. Enough is enough! I'm paying for my own health insurance and the cost is killing me.

[papapj]

As a so-called 'progressive' you should realize that immigrants pay all of the taxes you do without representation, in effect subsidising those medical costs with tacit government complicity. The IRS don't report taxes coming from the bogus SS numbers they provide and certainly don't let on to the INS about them for fear of losing the revenue they gain from them.

The fears you share with a nee are much like those guiding the thoughts of all recidivist xenophobes unable to see beyond their misplaced dread of cultural oblivion. Though your 'progressive' tag implies a longing for social change, you are not willing to acknowledge the resultant changes in the make up of the power structure that are necessary to accomodate the meritocracy this country purports to be.