“Let's see, according to ABC News http://abcnews.go.com/Business/illegal-immigrants-cost-us-100-billion-year-group/story?id=10699317#.TsLx6WFKMSE
Alabama and similar states will lose illegal workers yet would that not be a boon for those who need employment? I am currently out of work yet I've been on & off again with different jobs just trying to maintain life. I would move to where there was a job.
Random note: Also, with the hopeful return of our military, the economy will have a place to work for any veteran who need but ask. Granted it might not be the most glamorous but there is no shame in picking vegetables for a living.”
“You’re right that the only thing equal to marriage is marriage. Love is love. If gay citizens cannot have gay marriage, a civil union is so very close & it doesn't change the essence. Please explain why the civil union argument is false.
“Why should gay citizens hire an attorney?” Why does anyone hire an attorney? No one wants to hire a specialist for a job they can do yet to get them the best benefits (tax specialists) for them because the laws are complex & involved. Same answer to your "tiered amount" - we have a tiered tax system. Taxes are not in the Constitution but part of Administrative Law & it carries with it, the force of the Law.
In regards to “hundreds of rights denied”, are you speaking of years + individuals? Life is unfair. Trying to change everyone’s belief is not a battle to be won by the government. It's a societal belief battle. The term of marriage has been trampled. When people live together without marriage, want the respectability attached to marriage without paying the price.
The U.S. has separation of church & state for the simple reason that there are different beliefs in this nation that we all hold sacred and the state should not interfere. We agree to equality yet we hold different values and that is freedom and equality. It is possible to respect one another. I appreciate your point of view.
Only referencing the U.S. since we have the DOMA debate.”
“I believe that gay citizens have the right to marry, it’s called Civil Unions.
The debate is the terminology: Civil Union vs. Gay Marriage. And society, our civilization has an issue with the terminology, not the law. What I don’t understand is: Why if gay citizens are allowed to marry in Civil Unions, why are the tensions so wrapped around terminology?
There have been gay citizens throughout history, so stopping it isn’t really an issue. And I’m not saying that same-sex marriage prevents/stops the perpetuation of the species though it does hinder it.
My question rephrased, is: If you were the Ruler of your own Nation, how might you keep your civilization going?
I think it has affected the population growth in the U.S. The U.S. Caucasian populace has gone down. Yes, I know we have a population explosion right now, largely due to the efforts of the Hispanic community (I think, a big defender of DOMA). And yes, mixed marriages are more common so statistics are harder to track.
My only worry/question for Civil Unions is that hospitals do not acknowledge the Life Partner as a spouse. I would hope hospitals would acknowledge them. All other matters can be dealt with through a legal device such as: a will or power of attorney. Thank you for a thoughtful response. :)”
oafishcad on Mar 1, 2011 at 13:13:02
“The Constitution guarantees that all citizens will be treated equally under the law.”
oafishcad on Feb 28, 2011 at 19:49:44
“The debate isn't terminology. The word equal has a meaning. Having a separate water fountain is not the same as everyone drinking from the same one. The only thing equal to marriage is marriage. Besides the "civil union" argument is false. Most states allow neither. Gay mariage does not "hinder" reproduction, though we should have something that would, considering how overpopulated the planet is. And if it did, it would affect all groups, not just Caucasians, because gay citizens exist in equal proportion in all groups. There are literally hundreds of laws that are automatically given with marriage, so gay citizens are denied hundrteds of rights, not just hospital visitation. And why should gay citizens have to hire an attorney to have what others get automatically? This is America, citizens do not, should not, have tiered amounts of rights depending on the prejudices of the majority.”
“Taking your question seriously, I can think of one logical, factual and secular reason oafishcad: perpetuation of the species.
I am no hater and am just hoping for intelligent conversation. To my knowledge many states offer Civil Unions. If I understand you correctly, you are specifically asking as to why we/society do not allow Gay Marriage & in that I see the difference.
Society, not law, seems to be where the issue lies in finding Gay Marriage unacceptable. DOMA believes in a marriage between a man & woman.
Turning the question around: If you were in charge of a society, wouldn’t you want the society to continue on? There is no malice intended in my response, just piqued debate please.
I can cite the Spartan civilization, though not perhaps the best example was one where it was the duty to have a wife & child for a strong future and they still had their amorous liaisons with their battle buddy. Yes, I believe in adoption for all, just in case you might think that I was against that.”
Bob Kellerman on Mar 1, 2011 at 14:38:26
“Sounds like the typical mormon stuff -- then you corner them with truth, and they
lose the veneer of niceness pretty fast.
"BACK OF THE BUS'' is not OK,”
gloredon on Feb 28, 2011 at 18:27:37
“Your argument falls flat however, in that allowing same-sex couples in no way prevents the continuation of the species. Only disallowing opposite-sexed couples from marrying can do that. The belief that allowing same sex couples marriage rights in some way makes parenthood and procreation less likely is ludicrous, and rooted in the belief that homosexuality is a disease and contagious.
We heterosexual, procreating, humans are no more threatened by a percentage of the population opting out of the procreation business by marrying a member of the same sex than we are by men who marry women who cannot produce children, or by women who marry men who have a zero sperm count. The human race is in no danger of not producing enough offspring. None whatsoever. The current trend towards ZPG or even negative population growth (in the EU, especially) is helpful in many regards, as we do happen to live on a limited-resource ball of elements. And until we invent direct conversion of elements to any other element, and virtually free energy sources, population growth (or lack of it) should not be a concern.”
oafishcad on Feb 28, 2011 at 18:05:15
“I don't understand your question. Do you think if we allow gay citizens the right to marry that straight people will stop? The birth rate and straight marriage will continue as it always has. Gay marriage will have no effect whatsoever on reproduction or perpetuation the species. Allowing marriage between members of the same sex in no way lessens the respect or validity of marriage between a man and a woman.”