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Farmer Guy's Comments

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GMO Debate Heats Up: Critics Say Biotech Industry Manipulating Genes, And Science

GMO Debate Heats Up: Critics Say Biotech Industry Manipulating Genes, And Science

Commented Dec 5, 2013 at 10:48:40 in Green

“do you have a relevant point to make?”
GMO Debate Heats Up: Critics Say Biotech Industry Manipulating Genes, And Science

GMO Debate Heats Up: Critics Say Biotech Industry Manipulating Genes, And Science

Commented Dec 5, 2013 at 10:46:47 in Green

“Obviously we should believe you over the National Academy of Sciences, right? LOL

http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=12804
GMO Debate Heats Up: Critics Say Biotech Industry Manipulating Genes, And Science

GMO Debate Heats Up: Critics Say Biotech Industry Manipulating Genes, And Science

Commented Dec 5, 2013 at 10:45:46 in Green

“You should learn a little recent history:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007%E2%80%9308_world_food_price_crisis”
GMO Debate Heats Up: Critics Say Biotech Industry Manipulating Genes, And Science

GMO Debate Heats Up: Critics Say Biotech Industry Manipulating Genes, And Science

Commented Dec 5, 2013 at 10:43:20 in Green

“Umm, I dont need to prove anything. Scientific consensus speaks for itself

http://www.geneticliteracyproject.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Ge-crops-safety-pub-list-1.xls

Monsanto has nothing to do with it.”
Vandana Shiva On Seed Saving And The Fight For Biodiversity

Vandana Shiva On Seed Saving And The Fight For Biodiversity

Commented Dec 3, 2013 at 19:54:36 in Green

“LOL. Im not following the link to a "scientific report" created by non-scientists and anti-gmo bloggers. enjoy living in a fantasy world.”
Vandana Shiva On Seed Saving And The Fight For Biodiversity

Vandana Shiva On Seed Saving And The Fight For Biodiversity

Commented Dec 3, 2013 at 19:53:28 in Green

“and what is your point? those people can continue saving those seeds”
Vandana Shiva On Seed Saving And The Fight For Biodiversity

Vandana Shiva On Seed Saving And The Fight For Biodiversity

Commented Dec 2, 2013 at 12:13:55 in Green

“Its very telling that your "evidence" is from two renowned anti-gmo earth blogs. Do you have any non-biased, credible info to share today?
Also,still waiting on a description of this "fatally compromised" soil”

wiseoldsnail on Dec 3, 2013 at 15:19:25

“it's very telling that you think that, because of who published the data, the data is somehow unimportant or even not real . follow the links, oh ignorant tool, to the many original studies provided in the articles ... don't be afraid of the truth”
Vandana Shiva On Seed Saving And The Fight For Biodiversity

Vandana Shiva On Seed Saving And The Fight For Biodiversity

Commented Dec 2, 2013 at 12:10:51 in Green

“And you still dont seem to understand that the reason we dont save seeds is because theyre HYBRID. The GMO in them has nothing to do with it. Thanks for playing”

wiseoldsnail on Dec 3, 2013 at 15:20:10

“people all over the world do save seeds, so you and the several others stuck in your head should maybe get some help understanding reality”
Colbert On Washington GMO Labeling: 'Questioning What's On Your Plate Is Un-American' (VIDEO)

Colbert On Washington GMO Labeling: 'Questioning What's On Your Plate Is Un-American' (VIDEO)

Commented Nov 25, 2013 at 23:30:06 in Green

“Good luck trying to convince people that those findings don't point to a more sustainable technology, grace. God speed!”
Colbert On Washington GMO Labeling: 'Questioning What's On Your Plate Is Un-American' (VIDEO)

Colbert On Washington GMO Labeling: 'Questioning What's On Your Plate Is Un-American' (VIDEO)

Commented Nov 25, 2013 at 18:21:18 in Green

“"EVERYTHING you are objecting to is in YOUR LINK"

No, Im objecting to you trying to erroneously portray their "theories" when they are not theorizing anything. They portray scenarios in which the technology is not managed properly as precaution, which no one in agriculture would disagree with.

" written by people who you have decided support the daft idea that GMO is sustainable"

their finding (which I copy/pasted) speak for themselves, no? Whats your idea of "sustainable"? How are they wrong?

"Ever hear of an hypothesis?"

A hypothesis is not the same as you claiming they declared that the technology will be mismanaged and will fail. You cant be serious.

"Not because it is an error in that sense, but, because, when all is said and done, they have the same ridiculous world view you do."

The world view that accounts for data and fact-based evidence? lol, how ridiculous!

"They just have more objectivity than you do in some areas, assessing the problems, although I may be giving them too much credit"

I doubt the National Academy of Sciences cares how much credit you give them, Grace. They are an irrefutable, non-biased organization and you are a commenter on huffpo. Sorry.

" Try reading the whole thing and then if you have an argument with some of the points I have posted from your link"

Ive read it and none of the arguments you are making are in it. Try again.”

mothergrace on Nov 25, 2013 at 23:02:44

“You are completely hopeless. Every single thing I have posted is in this book.

Others will have to read it for themselves to judge, but I would like to include a statement from the summary.

"Therefore, to the extent that peer-reviewed literature is available, the report draws conclusions about the environmental, economic, and social effects, both favorable and unfavorable, associated with the use of GE crops for all farmers in the United States over the last 14 years." (published in 2010)

It is obvious from this statement that this is a nuanced discussion which you are obviously incapable of having.

For those who care to read for themselves.

http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=12804&page=R1

And thanks for the link. I will be using it extensively to refute others like yourself.”
Vandana Shiva On Seed Saving And The Fight For Biodiversity

Vandana Shiva On Seed Saving And The Fight For Biodiversity

Commented Nov 25, 2013 at 12:08:22 in Green

“Are you familiar with the famines and mass starvations before modern agriculture was introduced to the world? Please go find out who Norman Borlaug was and get back to us. Your ideology will feed nothing but your ego.”

TeeGeeRoo on Nov 26, 2013 at 09:53:45

“You keep thinking about the past, I'll keep thinking about the future. Hope I haven't bruised your ego.”
Vandana Shiva On Seed Saving And The Fight For Biodiversity

Vandana Shiva On Seed Saving And The Fight For Biodiversity

Commented Nov 25, 2013 at 11:47:25 in Green

“you still dont seem to understand that this conversation is not about vegetables do you? Its about US bulk grain for industrial uses. fruit and vegetable farming barely uses 1% of our ag land.”

TeeGeeRoo on Nov 25, 2013 at 11:59:35

“You are mistaken. I am very interested in small scale grains. Are you familiar with Fukuokan direct seeding non-cultivation natural farming?”
Vandana Shiva On Seed Saving And The Fight For Biodiversity

Vandana Shiva On Seed Saving And The Fight For Biodiversity

Commented Nov 25, 2013 at 11:27:28 in Green

“roundup is the most benign pesticide ever used in modern agriculture.

link to "fatally compromised" dirt? lol”

wiseoldsnail on Dec 1, 2013 at 21:56:16

“from http://stopogm.net/sites/stopogm.net/files/webfm/plataforma/KremerPreface2009.pdf

''Based on extensive field surveys and large-scale experiments, Fernandez et al. (2009) demonstrated that previous glyphosate applications (ranging from 18 to 36 months prior to planting) was the most important agronomic factor in development of diseases, primarily Fusarium head blight, in wheat and barley crops. Higher Fusarium colonization of wheat and barley roots was also associated with glyphosate burndown applications prior to planting (Fernandez et al., 2007). An unknown but interesting aspect of these observations is the apparent persistent effect of glyphosate on plant growth two or more years after application. Huber (Johal and Huber, 2009) reviewed various microbial interactions with glyphosate including those documented for toxicity toward beneficial microorganisms (i.e., rhizobia, Mn-reducers, mycorrhizae) and stimulation of detrimental microorganisms (Mn-oxidizers, pathogenic fungi). Through these interactions, glyphosate changes nutrient availability and alters pathogen virulence to plants. Some of the more notable diseases in which glyphosate might be implicated include Corynespora root rot in soybean, Marasmius root rot of sugarcane, citrus,variegated chlorosis (Xylella fastidiosa), and take-all (gaeumannomyces graminis) in cereal crops. Many of the pathogens causing these diseases are stimulated either by glyphosate exuded from roots, by the altered composition of root exudates caused by glyphosate treatment, or through a combination of both exudation processes."

note the dates on these studies . monsanto has known since the eighties that roundup is dangerous

monsanto gave us agent orange

monsanto motto : toxins for profit”

wiseoldsnail on Dec 1, 2013 at 21:48:26

http://www.scribd.com/doc/57277946/RoundupandBirthDefectsv5

http://stopogm.net/sites/stopogm.net/files/webfm/plataforma/KremerPreface2009.pdf

there's nothing benign about glyphosate . comparing it to other, more obviously drastic toxins as 'most benign' is like calling a dad who 'babysits' his kids once a month so their mama can do an extra weekend day at work a 'good dad' ... as compared to one who gets drunk and beats the kids

there's nothing good about either of these dads ... just one less horrible than the other

that's what your 'most benign' assessment is ... junk

i can go into describing the chemical reality that is occurring in dirt, or i can simplify with the phrase 'fatally compromised' ... because that's what's happening

if we allow continuous toxification of the soil, the soil will become (is becoming, in some areas) fatally compromised”
Vandana Shiva On Seed Saving And The Fight For Biodiversity

Vandana Shiva On Seed Saving And The Fight For Biodiversity

Commented Nov 25, 2013 at 11:25:56 in Green

“No, farmers do not save and replant hybrid seeds. You obviously dont have even an elementary understanding of botany or agriculture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_seed

wiseoldsnail on Dec 1, 2013 at 20:37:34

“i didn't say 'hybrid seeds' ... regardless, your ignorance has been entertaining

bye”
Colbert On Washington GMO Labeling: 'Questioning What's On Your Plate Is Un-American' (VIDEO)

Colbert On Washington GMO Labeling: 'Questioning What's On Your Plate Is Un-American' (VIDEO)

Commented Nov 25, 2013 at 11:02:23 in Green

“"This is THEIR conclusion, so I guess you should save your derision for them."

youre making things up again, grace. Scientists do not foretell the future. They wisely insert a cautionary note that the technology needs to be managed carefully. Everyone knows this. There are 3 new HRT varieties hitting the marketplace this year so we are moving away from RR.

"recommendation that biotech companies move into lessor crops with these types of relatives means they are recommending ignoring a problem they have pointed out."

LOL! then why dont you call up the NAS and point out this error! (you cannot be serious)

"Bt has not caused as much of a problem because of the governmental mandate of refuge areas but the resistance is for corn too"

Your very own link explains why the world isnt ending, chicken little:

{ the cat is not out of the bag. Resistance is a matter of frequency of resistant genes in the population, not a matter of their simple existence. If resistant rootworms are few and far between, they will not cause much damage. Problems begin when a population is comprised mostly of resistant insects. If appropriate resistance management procedures are followed, Bt corn is likely to last for years to come}\”

mothergrace on Nov 25, 2013 at 16:52:14

“Your link, your link, your link.

EVERYTHING you are objecting to is in YOUR LINK, written by people who you have decided support the daft idea that GMO is sustainable.

And, as a matter of fact, scientists DO "predict the future" in that they entertain possibilities of what is possible so they can then go forward and test. Ever hear of an hypothesis?

The authors, at one and the same time, point out that gene transfer is a problem and then recommend moving into crops that have wild relatives. Not because it is an error in that sense, but, because, when all is said and done, they have the same ridiculous world view you do. They just have more objectivity than you do in some areas, assessing the problems, although I may be giving them too much credit. They may just be pointing out the problems so as to figure out ways how to overcome future objections to these practices.

Yes, yes. Name calling is de rigueur with you people apparantly in lieu of actual discussion. As I said. This is your link. Try reading the whole thing and then if you have an argument with some of the points I have posted from your link, YOU take it up with NAS.

I hope Bt has not been ruined. It was in use for decades before Bt corn. But resistance appears to be growing.

http://agfax.com/2013/09/14/iowa-managing-corn-rootworm-resistance-bt-trait-failures/
Farm Bill Negotiations Begin In Congress

Farm Bill Negotiations Begin In Congress

Commented Nov 25, 2013 at 10:54:15 in Politics

“Edamame comes from non-GMO soybeans that are grown for people food. It is not made from feed soy. Again, please go read a book.”
Vandana Shiva On Seed Saving And The Fight For Biodiversity

Vandana Shiva On Seed Saving And The Fight For Biodiversity

Commented Nov 24, 2013 at 21:14:08 in Green

“If you got every person in the untied states to eat local, you will have effected barely 3% of the worlds population. go explain locavorism to a farmer in SE asia or laborer in sub-saharan africa”

TeeGeeRoo on Nov 25, 2013 at 11:38:31

“Farmers in SE Asia and sub-Saharan Africa are already largely locavores (by circumstance, not choice). Hopefully the people that shop at supermarkets will have more open markets available to them in the future.”
Colbert On Washington GMO Labeling: 'Questioning What's On Your Plate Is Un-American' (VIDEO)

Colbert On Washington GMO Labeling: 'Questioning What's On Your Plate Is Un-American' (VIDEO)

Commented Nov 24, 2013 at 21:09:44 in Green

“" environmental benefits will be reversed by the fact that glyphosate is now largely ineffective"

Link to any credible scientist describing exactly what will happen in the future? I guess all you ar eleft with is making stuff up at this point.

" You did not point out where this report said anything about sustainability"

My apologies!

{ Finding 1. When adopting GE herbicide-resistant (HR) crops, farmers mainly substituted the herbicide glyphosate for more toxic herbicides.
Finding 2. The adoption of HR crops complements conservation tillage practices, which reduce the adverse effects of tillage on soil and water quality.
Finding 3. Targeting specific plant insect pests with Bt corn and cotton has been successful, and the ability to target specific plant pests in corn and cotton continues to expand. Insecticide use has decreased with the adoption of insect-resistant (IR) crops. The emergence of insect resistance to Bt crops has been low so far and of little economic or agronomic consequence; two pest species have evolved resistance to Bt crops in the United States.
Finding 4. For the three major GE crops, gene flow to wild or weedy relatives has not been a concern to date because compatible relatives of corn and soybean do not exist in the United States and are only local for cotton
Finding 5. Farmers who have adopted GE crops have experienced lower costs of production and obtained higher yields in many cases because of more cost-effective weed control and reduced losses from insect pest.}”

mothergrace on Nov 24, 2013 at 23:23:00

“ALL of which YOUR link goes on to say are going to be reversed because glyphosate is becoming ineffective. All early environmental benefits are poised to be lost because of this. This is THEIR conclusion, so I guess you should save your derision for them.

Then do you agree that gene flow is a problem? Because their recommendation that biotech companies move into lessor crops with these types of relatives means they are recommending ignoring a problem they have pointed out.

Bt has not caused as much of a problem because of the governmental mandate of refuge areas but the resistance is for corn too, not just cotton.

http://farmindustrynews.com/corn-rootworm-traits/field-resistance-bt-corn-rootworm-trait-documented

Your own link also goes on to state that higher yield was a factor early on but not a continuing benefit, especially as resistance emerges and they absolutely state that depending on strategies adopted, the cost to the farmer will most certainly rise.”
Vandana Shiva On Seed Saving And The Fight For Biodiversity

Vandana Shiva On Seed Saving And The Fight For Biodiversity

Commented Nov 24, 2013 at 21:01:30 in Green

“No, I will neither agree or disagree about a fallacious argument. Farmers do not save hybrids. We stopped saving seeds decades ago. Farmers are not restricted to using certain seeds, thats a myth. You obviously wont believe me, how about npr? http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2012/10/18/163034053/top-five-myths-of-genetically-modified-seeds-busted

wiseoldsnail on Nov 25, 2013 at 11:21:08

“'we' ??? hilarious . people all over the world have been saving seeds for centuries . even monsanto and the u.s. government is still doing so

farmers save seeds . if you cannot begin with that as truth, nothing else you say will matter . the only farmers that don't use saved (or traded with other farmer) seeds are those under threat by corporate monsters for doing so”
Colbert On Washington GMO Labeling: 'Questioning What's On Your Plate Is Un-American' (VIDEO)

Colbert On Washington GMO Labeling: 'Questioning What's On Your Plate Is Un-American' (VIDEO)

Commented Nov 23, 2013 at 14:03:54 in Green

“"Your link does not demonstrate GMO is more sustainable."

less toxic pesticide
Less pesticide use
higher yield
less land, water, and fertilizer

LOL. ^why dont you tell us what your definition of "sustainable" is grace

"how the early environmental benefit will be undone as glysophate has lost its effectiveness and that crop rotation may be effective but proposing a reliance on a stew of herbicides is hardly an attractive nor sustainable proposition."

Yet, it is more sustainable than conventional farming, no matter how little you understand about either.

"They even acknowledge my point that non-GMO seed is being crowded out by GMO and farmers who want non-GMO have difficulty finding it."

Link to them saying farmers cannot find non-gmo seeds?

"Also that farmers may incur more expense and have fewer options regarding pest and weed control. Not very sustainable to me."

thats right, grace. Obviously we grow them because we lose money and our crops are more susceptible to pests. LOL, we are so dumb!”

mothergrace on Nov 23, 2013 at 18:27:18

“Your cherry picking a few remarks from your link are typical. Have you even read this material? All of the benefits listed are mentioned by your link but they go on to say the greater yields occurred very early on only and any environmental benefits will be reversed by the fact that glyphosate is now largely ineffective.

You gave a link. You did not point out where this report said anything about sustainability. I read the report. If you somehow think it is my job to point out chapter and verse as to where these statements are that I talk about, you are sadly mistaken.

Anyone who wants to read it can also read it. You can't even give a link that proves your argument but rather proves my argument. Here it is again for anyone who wants to actually read it and to read online, click on the link in the box to the left where the book is offered for sale.

https://download.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=12804

So that kind of does bring into question your choices about farming that you provide a link that proves your opponents case and yet still persist it proves your points.

You are not a scientist. You are not a good farmer either.”
Colbert On Washington GMO Labeling: 'Questioning What's On Your Plate Is Un-American' (VIDEO)

Colbert On Washington GMO Labeling: 'Questioning What's On Your Plate Is Un-American' (VIDEO)

Commented Nov 23, 2013 at 13:54:46 in Green

“"o bad, since I have been listening to you folks blather on about how safe glyphosate is, that you have ruined it."

Ruined what? There will be 300+ million acres of RR crops grown in the US in 2014. Obviously it still works if one simply recognize simple facts.

" genetic material can be transferred to non-GMO crops and wild relatives (if any) plus the fact that it is a crime to collect seed, it is most certainly possible this could happen in the future, especially if everyone sits around and allows it."

baseless hyperbole and fantasy. Its going to be a wondrous day when your movement can finally have a fact to lean on”
Vandana Shiva On Seed Saving And The Fight For Biodiversity

Vandana Shiva On Seed Saving And The Fight For Biodiversity

Commented Nov 22, 2013 at 19:19:12 in Green

“Its easy to spout off about things you dont understand, especially when you dont substantiate any of your bogus claims.....huh?”

jdjay on Nov 23, 2013 at 09:10:10

“I apologize for the common sense comment, it obviously fueled your animosity. That is not what I want to be about. Let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that. There are no doubt farmers that are requesting higher yield GMO seeds, I agree. But there is the other side of the picture. Farmers who are not allowed to use seeds that have been handed down from generation to generation and can't afford GMO seed. So ya, somewhere in the middle is the truth. For me to call you completely ignorant and for you to call me ignorant is just bad science, uncultured, stupidity.”
Vandana Shiva On Seed Saving And The Fight For Biodiversity

Vandana Shiva On Seed Saving And The Fight For Biodiversity

Commented Nov 22, 2013 at 19:17:53 in Green

“Monsanto sues people who steal technology. Please link a specific example.”
Vandana Shiva On Seed Saving And The Fight For Biodiversity

Vandana Shiva On Seed Saving And The Fight For Biodiversity

Commented Nov 21, 2013 at 15:04:05 in Green

“they dont own Bayer, Syngenta, Dow, DuPont, or Agriliant (4 of whom are bigger than Monsanto)

" since seeds have been patented, problems with food have been increasing"

Are you serious? You think food production has gone down since the 1930's? What on earth are you talking about?”

wiseoldsnail on Nov 25, 2013 at 11:18:47

“dirt everywhere has been fatally compromised . monsanto insures that more and more toxic roundup will be used on more and more dirt every year . that is, by definition, reducing the productivity of dirt

so, yes . undoubtedly serious”
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