“This isn't a victory. They are all kicking the can down the road. Again.
So what happens in January/February? Not only will we more than likely have to go through this again. But what happens when Federal employees are furloughed in the middle of winter? Will no one care because visiting parks will be less of an issue?
Every time a CR is set to expire, every time we reach the debt limit we go through this. When is it going to stop? When are we all going to be grown-ups, accept reality and stop playing games with people's lives?
We all lose over our elected officials ability to negotiate and pass a budget and stop playing one-up-manship with the debt limit.”
DeskJockey13 on Oct 16, 2013 at 12:43:54
“I wish they would just whip it out, get the tape measure, and get it over with.”
“"The proposed deal will do nothing to stop Obamacare’s massive new entitlements from taking root -- radically changing the nature of American health care," Heritage Action, the political arm of the Heritage Foundation, said in announcing it would score any vote for the plan against any member who cast it."
Now is it my imagination or did this nonelected group of people just dictate to our government how to vote. In the open. And how is NO ONE outraged by this??? We did not elect the Heritage Foundation or their attorneys to run our government. We elected our representatives.
This is what happens when corporations and big money are allowed to run rampant in our government - they ignore the wishes of the CITIZENS and tell our elected officials how to vote on legislation. This is INSANE!!!!
And yes, I'm yelling. I'm angry. I am really, really angry about this. It's bad enough we are going off this cliff, but for this foundation to come out in the open and tell the American people that they are telling our legislators how to vote - and NO ONE CARES, fries me.”
sheilafrees on Oct 15, 2013 at 22:02:38
“Irisheyes - listen I care as much as you do. When I read that the first thought that popped into my head was "Citizens United." Another absolutely damaging piece of legislation that has hurt this country tremendously. I said in a previous post about how the GOP completely abandoned their plan after the owners called and told them if they proceeded the money train was over. This is the end result of any group that can amass enough campaign contributions to be a force in the decision making process of the government. You cannot liken that to the opinion of one person.”
“I agree. By capitulating a precedent is being set that from this point forward the federal budget and the debt ceiling can be held hostage. Not a good precedent to set. It essentially stops the government from working. It destroys the countries credit.
And we lose what standing we have left with other countries.
I'm not sure we all realize the extent of the consequences yet. Even if they pass this bill, if it has concessions, in the long run the impact will be worse.
But all of this has been intentional. This has nothing to do with healthcare or the deficit, those are merely excuses for this. There is a longer term goal occurring that we will only realize after this is all over. And probably has a great deal to do with Norquist, Koch's and the other multi-billionaires who buy and pay for our "elected" representatives.”
“Is Kerry asking for immunity because we wouldn't have time to get everyone out of there by the deadline (wiggle room so that no one gets left behind and arrested for war crimes because of logistics) or so that we stay there? (serious question not facetious - I haven't heard anything about this).”
“Was it the dept of ed that began the problem? Or was it the beginning of the current corporate regime and their sway on education?
What else was going on at that time that led to where we are now? Was it that corporations realized that having an educated public was detrimental to their bottom line?
I'm not disagreeing that education is at an all time low, not even considering rankings with other countries. I just don't think that we can discount other factors or fact.”
kulak on Oct 12, 2013 at 14:13:35
“Facts are undisputable, if you want to make believe it is IBM's fault go at it.”
“Your response merely serves to highlight my point. What facts do you have that support your belief that local governments are any better or less corrupt than the federal government? What facts do you have that prove that removing the Department of education will improve education or promote an education comprised of more than promoting mediocrity?
We all have anecdotal evidence that supports our positions, but what is needed is facts, not supposition.
The biggest part of the problem is that none of us will ever agree. There are so many people with varying viewpoints that to meet in the middle is impossible. That's why we need to remove the emotional aspect and look at the facts.
Emotionally, you believe that the Dept. of Ed. should be eliminated and everything go to the states. I disagree. I think that there should be national standards of education and that the states, and their varying political viewpoints, should have no say so that they cannot inherently bias the educational process.
Textbooks should not be political, or approved by political bodies, they should be solely based on fact and approved by experts in those fields.
I also think that money should be taken out of media. Although that will never happen now - it's to profitable for the major media corporations to ever agree to this now. The worst mistake ever made was in not requiring the broadcast companies to”
kulak on Oct 12, 2013 at 13:10:13
“Thanks, you put some energy into it. But, look at cause and effect, the Federal dept. of education started in 1979. The education level of our students has declined ever since. No speculation call it anecdotal but you are wrong. What facts are there, our education levels have ALL declined since it's implementation.”
“We need to start thinking for ourselves again and not just letting ourselves be led by the politicians and media. Much of the ability of politicians to delude the public is based on lack of knowledge about economics, political science and history.
We have a school system that glosses over these things, if they teach them at all, leaving many of us with a bare minimum of knowledge on these subjects. This has allowed the media, politicians and pundits to slip in and promote their "truth", based on emotional pleas to what scares us most.
It will take more than voting out Congress to change what has taken decades to occur. It will take years of change, of education based on facts, to educate ourselves and our children.
It took us a long time to get here, it will not be a quick or easy route to take back our power. We need to educate ourselves on how the government process and how economics work. And not just leave it to the media to provide us snapshots of information that may or may not be accurate. Our biases should be tempered with facts so that when an emotional plea is given by a politician seeking favor we can question them and not just blindly listen.”
kulak on Oct 12, 2013 at 11:48:59
“Step one is to eliminate the Federal Dept. of education if you research it, ever since Carter started it in the late seventies, education in America has declined. We are now behind many third world countries. Local gov. are far more efficient than the corrupt fed. system.”
shwicksdad on Oct 12, 2013 at 11:42:56
“I am moving back north soon and the last thing I will do before I leave is vote Rick Snott out of office!”
“In the state I live in - they are not issuing unemployment to federal employees. Everyone I know who is a federal employee has been denied benefits. They are calling it a "glitch" in the system. Even with the appropriate paperwork. They told us all to still call and make our claims on our appointed dates/times and we would, probably, eventually get benefits.
“During the furlough I have -
made bread (cheaper than buying a loaf)
made cinnamon rolls (again, cheaper than buying the pre-made)
made a cake (daughters birthday, had to cancel the store bought)
made cookies (bakesale at daughters school)
cooked dinner every night (because I have time and energy!!)
cleaned my garage (which I have been avoiding all summer, and didn't have time)
volunteered at my daughters school
spent at least 3 hours every day on the phone with unemployment because they are not approving claims filed by federal employees in the state I live in.
spent another 2 hours a day on the phone with companies I owe money to (mortgage, car, car insurance, phone, student loans, life insurance, etc) to figure out ways to postpone or reduce bills
walk the dog every day (she started hiding from me a few days ago when I go to get her leash for her walk though - guess she's done with the walks).
cleaned every room and closet in my house
put together a donation to habitat for humanity from the stuff I cleaned out of the closets and garage
and yes, I've been watching Netflix in the evening. I had to cancel my cable because I couldn't pay the bill.
Another week of this and I'm going to run out of projects to keep me busy. Then I will be watching Netflix all day and not just in the evening.”
“We do have to pay back unemployment if we get back pay. And it's not double dipping - we aren't getting paid right now, we have no income and no way to pay our bills. That's what unemployment is for and why we get unemployment when this happens.
And just for the record - our employer, aka the federal government, pays into unemployment like everyone else. We aren't just "taking" unemployment without contributing.”
Earthskimmer on Oct 11, 2013 at 13:13:22
“RE: Government Shutdown: Are we missing a stunning opportunity? What if all 800,000+ federal employees (and their families) showed up at their workplaces and demanded their right to work? What if they all camped out at the Capitol to make this demand? What if those "reinstated" at the Pentagon (special treatment for the war machine) refused the special treatment until all their fellow federal workers were also reinstated? What if those who tend the gymnasiums for Reps and Senators walked right in and started doing the laundry? According to the Office of Personnel Management, there were 2,110,221 federal employees (Sept 2012, most recent data). Many have not been furloughed, obviously, but many of them could join their fellow workers in a massive display of solidarity protesting the childish tactics of their employers who put them out of a job. Ultimately, they will get their back pay, because the American public will demand it. My point simply is that these most obvious victims of an unnecessary shutdown have the most invested--and therefore the strongest voice. They could break all records in the USA for non-violent protest--and teach the Congress who is in charge. The ultimate irony is that federal employees help pay the salaries of their employers--who are now laying them off.”
katyland on Oct 11, 2013 at 13:07:57
“As I said Unemployment should be paid back, and agree you should get back pay , but you should not be able to keep both.”
“Fact: You cannot negotiate when one side is unwilling to compromise. That isn't negotiating.
Fact: The President and Democrats have said they would be more than happy to negotiate on a clean budget that doesn't include ignoring due process in removing a law from the books.
Fact: The Speaker has refused to allow a vote on a clean budget to occur.
Fact: you CANNOT remove a law by not funding the government. You can remove a law by:
1. Declaring it Unconstitutional. The Supreme Court than rules one way or the other on if the law is constitutional or not. In this case the law was deemed constitutional.
2. Congress can write and pass new legislation that supersedes it. They have voted to pass a bill that would strike down this law over 40 times, and have been unable to do so - there has been no majority to pass the bill.
3. The President can issue an Executive Order against it. That would be like an EO to ban Social Security or the Civil Rights Act. Technically only possible in a declared State of Emergency.
Saying that the President and the Democrats are unwilling to negotiate is untruthful at best. Spouting talking points with no basis in reality will not change the truth or the facts behind them.”
“The best you can come up with is a cost of living increase in 2009? That was 4 years ago.
And let's think about this a minute - while lower paid private sector workers were getting laid off and not getting raises - how many millions were the CEO's getting in bonuses again? But lets not focus on that part of it, how those companies made a conscious decision to NOT pay their employees so that they could keep their bonuses. Because obviously that is the fault of federal employees, so of course they should never get another raise again.”
“1) back-pay still hasn't been approved by senate.
2) unemployment has to be paid back IF back-pay is approved.
3) back-pay isn't instantaneous if approved, it will be at least a month before it is seen, maybe more.
4) federal employees are not working because of the shutdown - not because they want to not work. This isn't a paid vacation, it isn't even an unpaid vacation. Most of us would all rather be working.
5) the back-pay, if granted, may or may not show up before the unemployment has to be paid back.”
“Not only the loss of research, but scientists, engineers and others who may elect to not continue research with the government because of this insanity. The impact into the future could be significant, but won't be known for some time.”
zemogry on Oct 10, 2013 at 23:34:20
“Thats being overly dramatic where else would they go? If there were private opportunities that allowed the same freedoms they would already be employed in the private sector. Or are you saying that they will now take that private sector job anyway in which case the government doesnt really need to fund the research. I think research is something government should be involved in but please cut the sensationalism, it only undermines your argument.”