“Sex is NOT always a choice! And did you not get that many , many young people (as well as lots of adults) are very ignorant on the facts of life? And how well aware is a person who is under the influence of drugs or alcohol?
And you may preach caution and precaution but if one of your daughters should become pregnant are you first going to remind her it was her "choice to get pregnant" . And I am very glad you preach caution and precaution but are you even able to fathom how many parents do not?? And NOW of this has a thing to do with imprisoning pregnant women for drug usage.”
GeniusInTheory on May 12, 2014 at 11:59:08
“I already clarified many posts ago. When sex is not a choice it's called rape.
We already came to agreement as well. I get the reasoning on the law but concur prison or threat of prison isn't the answer. I'm still waiting for ideas on what will achieve the ultimate objective of clean and sober addict-mothers during and after pregnancy.
I hope you had a wonderful Mother's Day, Margaret!”
“Tyler Drumheller and Paul Pillar. Arthur , if you didn't get all your info from Fox news you might know something. Pretty much well known the CIA warned the Bush administration they were dealing with false information (they did not want to hear that ) www.space.war.com/reports/CIA-Warned_Bush_Of_No_WMD_In_Iraq.htm. Plenty more sources IF one is willing to accept reality!”
“The stock market is booming, Obamacare is a success, a poll shows that Americans want the Democrats to continue to control the Senate, the economy has recovered from the recession , unemployment is dropping, THE ONLY thing the GOP can do is yell , "BENGHAZI". Of course, the majority of Fox news viewers have no idea where Benghazi might be.”
fran x on May 7, 2014 at 10:53:47
“Please let us know where we can find that poll because all the polls I see indicate the opposite”
“As soon as the Republicans explain the deaths of 54 Americans in our embassies under Bush and why they ignored the intel about Osama bin Laden that led to the deaths of thousands. When can we expect that??”
“The Bush administration was well aware that "intel" was faulty. They were warned by experts in the CIA. They did not care. The neocons in the White House needed a war. Speaking of the British perhaps you should view "The Power of Nightmares" by the BBC which covers how we got into Iraq in the first place. And IF you recall it was Cheney who connected 9/11 to Saddam Hussein (which of course, he knew was not true).”
“Then you apparently did not hear John above! And will Greta bring up the Marine barracks in Lebanon under Reagan's watch or the 54 members of our embassies who died under George W. Bush's watch and the fact that the Bush administration ignored the intel about Osama bin Laden. How many of our people died from that one? ALL I hear from the right is CRICKETS!”
“You said "making babies is a choice" not that "sex is a choice" and for millions of women and girls sex is not a choice (and that includes married women).
And you seem to miss that women on drugs are not making rational decisions. It would be great if everyone in the world never make a mistake or did anything foolish,but I realize people are not always perfect and sometimes only ONE mistake can cost them. I am always amused that so many conservatives (like these legislators) seem to think they speak for Jesus but ignore his commandment to not judge lest you be judged. You might be perfect, but the rest of us are not. And you do realize that not all children have parents like you, right? Including a lot of women on drugs.
Now let us get back to the real issue. This is bad, punitive law that will have little or no effect on drug usage by women in this country. We already have the highest infant mortality rate in the developed world due to lack of prenatal care. Pushing women into NOT getting medical care because they fear jail time will not help. Remember the story in Jezebel.
I am sure you have your daughters back, it is your demand of no mistakes that I find disturbing.”
GeniusInTheory on May 7, 2014 at 11:33:05
“sex is a choice. sex can get ya pregnant. Therefore choose sex choose risk.
I allow my kids to make mistakes. They are harder on themselves than I could ever be. We don't preach abstinence, we preach caution and precaution. Poor kids.
I think we came to agreement re risk of pushing women from prenatal care.”
“I am sorry but I feel sorry for your daughters. Every pregnancy is a hardly a "choice to become pregnant". Over half the women seeking an abortion were using birth control in the month in which they became pregnant. Sex is a part of life like eating and sleeping. Some can deny themselves but most of us are just human. Scott, you sound EXACTLY like the men who voted for this hideous law. How dare women have sex!! Your attitude toward your son may seem to you very enlightened but what you just stated is completely sexist. Making babies is NOT always a choice. I stand by that statement. You forget the same people passing laws like this in Tennessee are denying funding for birth control and push "abstinence only sex education". When my oldest daughter was in medical school she helped teach "honest sex education" at inner city high schools. She was appalled at how little was known and a lot of what the kids had learned came directly from the parents. The frightening thing was how many thought only gay men could get AIDS and that you cannot get pregnant your first time.
And I am glad you see private prisons as wrong BUT that is what is happening particularly in GOP controlled sections of this country. Children are being put in or private "juvenile detention centers" by bought judges for crimes like "running away from home" or speaking rudely to a teacher.”
GeniusInTheory on May 6, 2014 at 16:51:30
“Notice I said having sex is a choice. A choice with known results, even when the results are mitigated. Therefore, we have a choice. If we don't want to make babies there is but one guarantee. If you do the act, you've made a choice that could make babies. That isn't that profound of a concept. And goes for men as well as women. I expect my son to be respectful and responsible. From using condoms to inquiring whether she is 'safe' as well. And should pregnancy result from his choice to make love, (with protection or not), he must be prepared to address and support the consequences.
You seem to skip over words or sentences, so I'll reiterate. I don't expect my kids to practice abstinence. We want them to wait. Want and reality are pretty far apart. So we teach them to be safe and prepared. Before they are ready.
Every time we do it, Margaret. Whether a couple is in married, single, cheating or still in high school Risk, is there. Sex over rules caution. Which is why we prepare our kids. and pray their partners are as prepared (or better)
“Making babies is NOT always a choice. Some 60% of births are unplanned. And many of the women using drugs are unaware they are pregnant ( a great deal of damage can be done BEFORE one even knows they are pregnant). And many of these women (and girls) are not aware of the effects of drugs on their fetuses or on themselves. That is reality. And you keep forgetting that this bill only covers ILLEGAL drugs. A large percentage of the drugs pregnant women are using are prescription drugs and it is not only narcotics that can damage the fetus but even drugs like acne medications. This law seems to be only going after the poor, the ignorant and minority women. Think you will see many well off women in jail (and they also abuse drugs while pregnant). And with NO extra funding for treatment, nothing will improve. We have had punitive drug laws in effect for decades and our prisons are overflowing with drug offenders (the number one reason people are in prison). Done any good? This law will have the same effect which is nothing but make the private prison system richer.”
GeniusInTheory on May 6, 2014 at 14:01:48
“When its not a choice it's rape.
Even as a young man, I knew by being active, I was making it a decision. Choosing to take a risk. Choosing to mitigate or not mitigate that risk, be it condoms, Pill, withdrawal or some combination.
So, we've tried to teach our daughters (and son). Wait, hold out, so your first is special and not simply a give away. In the meantime, they are welcome and encouraged (by us but through her) to start the pill. My son has had the HPV shots to protect his future partners. When they choose to do it, we hope they (and teach) them to choose wisely and safely.
“And it is not "pro-life". It is "pro forced birth". Prolife would be anti-war, anti-death penalty, pro public assistance, and pro education. Pro-lifers would be pushing for far more funding for drug rehab centers for pregnant women that enable these women to keep their kids with them and they would oppose any cuts to food stamps, WIC and would want to increase funding for Medicare because studies have shown that doing so saves lives.”
“There is a big difference between a "pregnant woman sharing her body and my man parts". Men CANNOT share their bodies so they have no idea what is involved.
If a woman is arrested for breaking into a pharmacy, it does not matter IF she is pregnant or not. IF a woman is caught using illegal drugs, she has broken the law BUT her pregnancy should not condemn her to any more incarceration than she would get for breaking that law. She can be offered help to break the addiction, but threatening to PUT her in jail JUST for being pregnant is a bad precedent. These type of laws have not reduced the number of pregnant women using drugs anywhere they have been implemented. Why would this one? And isn't that suppose to be the goal? Or might it be another way to increase the revenue of private prisons? (Did you watch the video accompanying the article?)
Or and IF you mess around with those "man parts" you too can produce defective offspring. We are learning more and more as to how the man can affect the health and well being of the fetus. Did you know that older fathers are more likely to produce autistic children and children who later develop schizophrenia? Should we ban any man over forty from being a father and put them in jail IF they become one and their child is autistic??”
GeniusInTheory on May 6, 2014 at 11:27:13
“You keep stretching things. Making babies is a choice. As is carrying to term. Once one makes a decision to carry, certain responsibilities take over.
Don't forget we did come to near agreement re not forcing these women to chose prison or treatment. As well as, the inherent danger in such a choice being counter productive to seeking help and prenatal care.”
“Yet, it was women, dear, who put Obama back in the White House and kept the Senate for the Democrats. And many of those women were "conservative" but the comments of men like Todd Akin and others turned them off the GOP. My sister in law in Texas is a dyed in the wool Bush Republican. But, she despises Rick Perry and was adamant in her opposition to the "special session" he called to restrict abortion rights. In fact, she was overjoyed when she saw her niece, my daughter , at one of the capitol building protests against those new laws. The "RIGHT" can continue its war on women and they will become a smaller and smaller group. In case you have not noticed, the tea party is dying. In large part because of their attitudes toward women. And it was NOT the left last week that was having a discussion on Fox news about how things are so awful now that about one third of married women are the primary breadwinner in families. That kind of stuff will not help your cause. And since you claim you would not vote for women making laws about men's parts, why do you think women will continue to vote for men making laws about women's parts??
And any person using illegal drugs can now be arrested (the passed out with a needle in their arm) and breaking into a pharmacy is a crime no matter what one is trying to obtain.”
GeniusInTheory on May 6, 2014 at 09:26:42
“I first need to correct myself; I meant to say "I wouldn't NOT vote for that person" It likely it would be in my "cons" list for that candidate; but wouldn't rule it out.
I learned a long time ago one issue voting is counter productive. Voting straight pro-life precludes one from voting for qualified candidates, with other very important objectives. About the time I quit that self-defeating strategy is when I changed from a (D) to an (I).
Still there is a big difference between a pregnant woman sharing her body and my man parts.
If a woman is arrested will they keep her in jail if she's not pregnant and send or home if she is?”
“In other words, dear, you have no experts to back your positions. You do try convoluted logic, don't you? Dear, the doctors are NOT prescribing drugs directly to pregnant women that would be dangerous to the fetus. The women already have them in their possession (from previous illnesses) or are getting them from others. The point you seem incapable of grasping is that this law ONLY COVERS ILLEGAL DRUGS. Poor Gerald, I had aspirin and cold medications in my bathroom during EACH of my pregnancies. I did not use them. Understand now?? You cannot be as dense as you are appearing to be. And I guess since you are trying to argue that doctors are dangerous to pregnant women, they should not be involved in helping with labor or delivery either. Can we count on you to be there for the women since you seem to want to ignore medical advice?? How many babies have you delivered Gerald??”
“And what qualifies you in ANY way to say anything? YOU are not female, and you don't live in Tennessee (at least the guy running for senate is from there and MIGHT know what is going on there better than you). THE woman from the ACLU might have children and we don't know if she struggled with addiction or not, right?? And even if she has never had children, at one point in her life she has been able to become pregnant. And I am betting BOTH of them, know MORE about the issue than you do, because they have studied it and SEEN the stats. And I am glad you FINALLY looked at the video. It is not surprising you are commenting MORE on WHO they are, than what they said. Now tell me what qualifications the American Medical Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Association of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, and the experts on addiction (some of whom HAVE been addicts in the past) to speak on this issue. You are still being perverse and not offering ONE expert opinion to advance your case. You just want to make absurd arguments. And tell me again about your medical credentials that top any I have mentioned. And please tell me of the medical and addiction knowledge of the state legislators who voted to pass this bill!! THEY did not listen to the EXPERTS but passed an ineffective and vindictive law.”
Gerald Dick on May 4, 2014 at 16:17:21
“Aren't the associations you are quoting as agreeing with you part of the problem as you claim that script are 40 % of the problem. So why do they want to expose something they have a hand in doing to these women? They do represent doctors don't they?”
“So did you listen to the video with the article? Did you? You might learn something. People, dear, abuse prescriptions all the time. Even pregnant women. And my daughter and son in law ARE physicians. They agree this is a bad law. And perhaps the AMA and every medical group in the country should call you since YOU seem to know better than them!! Really, Gerald , tell me your medical background and how you are more aware that the American Academy of Pediatrics on this issue. And watch the video , Gerald and quit being so perverse. Not very becoming.”
Gerald Dick on May 3, 2014 at 22:50:21
“Since when is a guy running for senate qualified to speak about being pregnant? What are his and the aclu woman's qualifications have they ever struggled with addiction? Do they have relatives in the medical profession? I don't think they know what they are talking about isn't what you'd say?”
“Dear, are you in the medical field. Let me explain this to you. PRESCRIBED DRUGS are JUST as dangerous to a fetus. I have been pregnant. Have you? I was told not to even take aspirin. It can cause a miscarriage and premature birth. Gerald, you lost this debate a long time ago so now you are resorting to attacking me to hide your own ignorance. I never said treatment is "harder on the fetus". Where did I say that?? I said that going "cold turkey" on some of these drugs can result in a miscarriage. And I am actually not the one saying that . The medical community is. And YOU may say you will pay higher taxes (and do you live in Tennessee) but this BILL DOES NOT PROVIDE FOR THOSE HIGHER TAXES to pay for this program. And the reason for that is because the GOP controlled legislature in Tennessee would not raise taxes for much of anything. And it is to divert money to private prisons. I asked you to watch the video. Did you? Once again it was NOT ME saying the plan was to help out private prisons but people who oppose the law and LIVE IN TENNESSEE. Got it ? And dear, I have given you IDEAS of how to solve the problem but apparently your reading comprehension is poor. LOOK at the last paragraph of my last comment to you. Good grief.”
Gerald Dick on May 3, 2014 at 18:42:38
“So now doctors don't know what drugs to give pregnant women. Maybe they should call you to find out because you know more than them.”
“This bill is NOT doing anything for them!! You think scaring them with jail will make them all rush out for drug treatment? Did you not listen to the video?? Forty percent of women using drugs while pregnant are using drugs PRESCRIBED by a physician. NOT ILLEGAL DRUGS.
How do I not care? Because I don't agree with your weak arguments? Then I guess the AMA, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Association of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, every organization which deals with addiction and women's groups also DO NOT CARE since they agree with me. Really?? Really??
When did I EVER say I did not want my taxes spent on treatment centers?? Show me. I never said that treatment does not work. Show me where I said that. I SAID THE THREAT OF PUNISHMENT AND PRISON DOES NOT WORK AND IS WRONG!! Understand NOW??? Perhaps you agree with this because you have a severe reading comprehension program and you still have not gotten what it really says.
I want to do a GREAT DEAL. Starting with honest sex education which would include the affects of substances on the fetus (and tells about birth control). Think the guys in Tennessee would go along with that? Most Southern states have not (one reason teen pregnancies are so high in those states). I would take the Medicaid money that Washington is offering for Obamacare and use more of it to treat addictions. Think they will do that??”
Gerald Dick on May 3, 2014 at 07:09:53
“The problem is the illegal drugs not prescribed ones there is a difference between being under the care of a doctor and a drug dealer. Ranting and raving by you will not change that so just quit. You are the one saying treatment is harder on the fetus and that there are few treatment centers an assume that I wouldn't pay higher taxes to support this program. You are the one who says this is just for the pay prisions blah blah blah! You are just another one of these people while saying you want to help but don't want to do anything except complain because you have no ideas to solve the problem.”
“And Gerald, every major medical organization in the country OPPOSED this bill. EVERY addiction treatment center and organization OPPOSED this bill. Do you know more than they do? And I will tell you what addicted women who are pregnant will do. They will not seek medical treatment for fear they will be turned in and sent to jail. That will work great.”
“And if there is no place that can take them, then what happens?? Did you get there are only 19 places out of 177 that can treat pregnant women? Did you get that only 2 can handle children?? Did you not get there is no funding in this bill to provide more places for pregnant women to go? Did you not get the maximum punishment is FIFTEEN YEARS? That is more than lots of rapists and violent criminals get. Tennessee is a financial mess. It ranks first in bankruptcies (resulting in less tax dollars) and is the most violent state (including domestic abuse). It is one of the worst states already to be female and it has one of the highest rates of depression in the country. Why is alcohol abuse not included in this bill? Might it be because Tennessee is second only to Kentucky in the production of whiskey. Now tell me about the war on drugs and how that has worked. And did you listen to the video with the article? And apparently , you did not get the news that even Republicans from rural districts in Tennessee OPPOSED this bill because there would be NO treatment available to their addicted pregnant women. Now, tell be how Tennessee with all its problems is going to fund this. This was nothing but show boating legislation designed to make people feel self righteous but solving nothing.”