Wake-up's Comments (1925)

“Well put, fan of Wake-up, Islamo-fascists are people dedicated to an ideology. Osama bin Laden example: wealthy beyond most anybody's dreams, he could invest and help many poverty-stricken peoples in the middle east with is wealth, instead of investing in murder, butchery, death and destruction. His choice.”

“"It's a War with people that are at war with us, like it or not, that's what the last Administration understood."

Excuse me, Wake-up, but how does pulling forces out of Afghanistan to fight a grudge match in Iraq qualify as understanding that we are at war with the people in Afghanistan (or maybe Pakistan)? How many people do you think are ignorant enough to fall for this?”

“Wake up, you need to take your own advice! A terrorist war is not a conventional war, it cannot be fought like a conventional war, and it will not be won by loud mouths. Obama has pursued a quiet and effective path that we should support.”

“Then why was al-Qaeda allowed to rebuild. If the Bush administration was tough on terror why was al-Qaeda stronger at the end of the Bush administration then it was at the beginning?”

“Terror works when the victim population changes it's course due to fear. The President rushing home from vacation to "reassure" the country magnifies the terrorists actions to a level it cannot achieve in any other way. That said, please explain why Bush waited 6 days to comment on the shoe bomber and remained on vacation. Same threat. Same outcome. But it was Bush so staying on vacation was OK? 6 days? OK You are a hypcrite.”

“He certainly showed courage by admitting there was a problem and that he was ultimately responsible. I have never heard a republicant admit to a mistake or take responsibility for anything. They are truly the party of finger pointers. And also, please remind us of who broke the record for vacation days during his presidency er appointment?”

“i hate to belabor the point for you right wing halfwits, but your hero bush waited six days to speak about the shoe bomber. are you all hyppocrites?”

“So you reckon he should have dashed back to DC from Hawaii to declare everlasting war on a guy that put a bomb in his underwear?

Sorry, that was Bush's MO.”

“Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

You can't have it both ways. I don't care what 79% of you believe. You can believe in any fairy story you wish, but you can not force me to join you in your rabid misguided fundamentalism, by enacting laws that support your fantasies at the expense of my freedom. I support and will defend the constitution.”

“No, I'm afraid I don't have it backwards, but (from what little I can make of the abbreviated gibberish that followed the word "backwards" in your note) I think you've just proven my point. You might try actually making a substantive point, in English (or some other known language), rather than parroting Fox News or teabagger talking points.”

“We're not bad, or good. We, like all humans, are a mixture of both. More confusingly, all people do a mixture of good and bad things. Ain't adulthood a bitch?”

“A little low compared to the figures from Iraq Body Count, but close. As to "They love us", cite one factual source for this fatuous assertion, pls.”

“"America bad... evil people good."



Evil people are, by definition, evil. They have no nationality or racial profile. They can be as close as your closest family member. The trick is, to not let them bring moral and just people down to their level.
Good and decent people tricked into sending money to evil people who claim the money will go to Jesus.
Good and decent people tricked into believing the falsely AAA rated junk stock they were sold, would be a safe investment for their 401k retirement plan.
Good and decent people who kissed their children goodbye, as they watched them go off to fight in an Iraq that their leaders assured them would end with flowers thrown at their children's feet, instead of bullets and bombs.
Evil is, as evil does. When you pretend it's not really evil, and when you make excuses for the scam, you aid and abet evil.”

“"Who's killed a few hundred thousand civilians? Sadam for sure..."

When he used biological weapons on his own citizens, that was during Reagan's presidency and Saddam used planes from the US dept of agriculture to do it. Reagan tried to provide cover for him by claiming it was Iran that did it. So we were ok with it then, but some 20 years later it becomes the cause for a war with Iraq because we are now the righteous ones acting only because we are so moral. Iraq had nothing to do with 911.”

“Do you, Harry? Who has been killed, by the numbers, by US forces? Who has been killed, by the numbers, by Iraqi and terrorist forces? Please be specific, and don't bring in "estimates".
Semper fi”

“Have you read the statistics on civilian deaths during our invasion? Do you read any factual material whatsoever?”

“"America the only real bright light in the world for freedom, morality, charity, etc."

I see nothing more than self righteous hatred and bigotry from the right wingers - at least in these blogs, I'm sure they are not all like that but in addition, listening to their leaders like Rush, O'reilly, Faux crew and it's hard to believe they are not. Yes, we must be the moral ones that get to choose who gets bombed and killed. Others should accept their fate as the unclean. When we support dictators that we like it's because we are so moral and no one else in the world is. We are the only ones that fought on the side of good in WW I and II. Ya, sure.”

“Yeah, "new friends". Try borrowing a fiver from either of them in the near future and let me know how that turns out. We have made enemies by the millions with this policy, and that's what you fail to understand. We have recruited thousands of new jihadists--I know, they hate us anyway, why do we care?”

“Harry, can you lay out for us, in general terms, how many "jihadis" our policies of the 11th century produced? No? Lets make it simpler. How about the 7th century? Still unsure? Our policies produce NO jihadis, no more than are normally produced. Islam is a religion of hate, misogyny, and tribalism. It produces its own jihadis, and requires no assistance from us. It will continue to produce those jihadis until you and I are either dead or converted, and Islam united under one sect. It is NOT a religion of peace, but of violent conquest. Want a religion of peace? Try Christianity. Oh, I know, you'll point back to excesses of the Church hundreds, even thousands of years ago, but that was then, and Islam is now!
Semper fi”

“No Harry, I do not use the UN resolutions as a causus belli. You brought up the resolutions, vis a vis Turkey and Israel. I merely responded. I loathe the UN, as it has become only a playground for despots. You are welcome to my share!
Semper fi”

“I'm trying to have nothing both ways, Harry, any more than are you. Iraq defied over 11 UN resolutions, which you seem more concerned with than I. As you ARE more concerned, I'm surprised you aren't aware of it. Or... are you aware, but deliberately ignoring them for political gain!?
Semper fi”

“Harry, Harry, Harry, you seem to put some faith in the UN. I do not. The UN has accomplished nothing of substance since Russia's walkout allowed us to stop the North Koreans. Since, it has been coopted by dictatorial countries who want to demean the US and its allies, particularly Israel, through a long series of petty, meaningless, resolutions. The UN is nothing more than a useful steam valve! Trust it if you wish.
It is completely irrelevent!
Semper fi”

“Harry, I was at the US Embassy in Nicosia when the Turks invaded! I saw Turkish paratroops coming down. The Turks invaded because the island is divided between Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots. The Greek section at the time was led by a firebrand who called often for attacks on the Turkish north, and Greece was led by a militant military group that were considering it. Turkey, rightly or wrongly, saw Cyprus as a linchpin in their historical disputes with Greece. You got that one wrong.
Semper fi”

“There was no credible WMD intel. Further, the Bush admin obviously did nothing to vet any intel in fear that it would be exposed.”

“When Willkie and Jones and Thielmann spoke out, it was not armchair quarterbacking, it was an attempt to keep the US and Uk from making a disastrous mistake. There aren't always people publicly speaking out--they were the only three, and the national news media in this country totally ignored them. Turkey didn't invade a country? Ask the folks in Cyrpus, the subject of all those ignored resolutions. Israel? Ask the people of Gaza. You try to make this stuff so simple and black and white, and unfortunately, the real world keeps getting in the way. "Moral relativism" was a cute phrase thrown about by Jeanne Kirkpatrick to proclaim the moral superiority of a nation--ours--that had practiced genocide and slavery.”

“The corruption in the Oil for food program was known before the war started. Interesting that the first and only person I remember being convicted for anything related to that was a Texas Oil company owner (think there are any Texas oil company owners that arent on a first name basis with the Bush family?).
It would have been trivial to fix that corruption without going to war if there was any desire to.

"there's been no major event here since"

We had over 40 thousand Americans killed or wounded during George's reign, not counting contractors which I understand to be close to an equal number. I do not consider them to be cannon fodder.”

“Again, the intel was not what we were told it was--check out the whistle-blowing of Andrew Willkie (in Australia) and Dr. Brian Jones (UK), as well as Greg Thielmann at the State Department's BNR. All three said publicly, before the war, that the intel didn't say what we were told it said. Defiance of UN resolutions? Guess the two nations that, as of 2003, defied more Security Council resolutions than Iraq: Turkey and Israel.”

“The gun that was pointing at us was Osama Bin Laden's. Iraq was a diversion from our mission.”

“What gun was Iraq pointing at us? We had decimated their army in Gulf War One, we knew that, and they knew we knew that. They took potshots at our planes enforcing the "no-fly" zones, that's it. All else was imagined.”

“Right, Harry. I was off on the slavery issue. Its only been 140 years. That makes me Sooo wrong. History is just as you say, history! It is not now. Nations, in and of themselves, cannot by bad or good. It is the laws and people that make it so, as well as their history, and how they grow. Slavery in the US, and the Jim Crow laws that grew out of the excesses of the post-war South, are past. There are no barriers to those descendents of slaves, or those who did not descend from slaves. Hundreds of thousands gave their lives ridding the nation of slavery, and elevating the status of black men and women to their proper level of equality. This is the mark of a "GOOD" nation. The mark of an "EVIL" nation, at least in this instance, rides on most Arab countries, and many non-Arab Muslim countries that still practice slavery. Again, you neglected to loudly condemn them!
Semper fi”

“Harry, as a man who claims to be a man of faith, that comment is beneath you. Man fell from grace, or do you no longer believe that? And in so doing, we began a long climb back into God's grace, with many falls between the two points. Slavery was evil, is evil. Where are your Liberal compadres in condemning the Arab world for practicing modern slavery, while you condemn the US for slavery ended 200+ years ago, at a dear cost in blood?
As for genocide, I presume you refer to the Indians?! There was no official policy of genocide, so you are wrong! That, again, was a human failing on the return road to God's grace.
Semper fi”

“Articulator, the people of Pakistan will do what they perceive to be in their best interest, regardless of whether they like us. It is a black and white world, populated by people that change the contrast. Good is good, and evil is not. We will always struggle against it, and it is better to be strong than weak.
Semper fi”

“Ok, it's late. Cleaning it up:

Iraq wasnt pointing a gun at us. Your arguments are over simplifications that ignore the gory details, like the many innocent kids that had arms, legs or heads blown off during the Iraq war.

We need some people in Pakistan that do not hate us so much that they wont work with us to go after Al Qaeda inside their borders, as they are doing now, unless of course we're going to invade that country too.”

“Should we bomb Germany because some of the planning for 9/11 was done in Hamburg?”

“There is no "they" as in "these folks do not" value Western Values. Stereotyping them all bands the extremists and moderates together. The way to defeat the extremists is to isolate them amongst their own. Unless we are willing to invade another half dozen or so countries it is nice to have them police their own on our insistence. Thankfully there are enough Pakistani's who will work with us to attack the Al Qaeda strongholds.
People in other countries have to figure out what Western Values are. They did see us on Saddam Husseins side in the Iraq-Iran war. When Saddam gassed his own people, they used planes from the US department of agriculture and the US pres at the time tried to provide cover by claiming it was Iran that did it until the outcry was too much to cover up and he relented. We were the ones that supplied Osama Bin Laden with weapons to fight the Russians and thus were part of his rise to power. This is not said in criticism or to blame the US but merely to point out that others may have a viewpoint that doesnt admire what they see as Western Values which should not villainize them. There are those that see things different from us but there are many that will still work with us for a common goal despite those differences. There are individuals, not stereotypes, you have to have some respect of them, for them to respect you.”

“Iraq had nothing to do with 911. There are lots of countries that need invading, like Somalia. The point is, we were engaged in the so called "war on terror" at the time with Al Qaeda. The Bush admin wanted to go into Iraq before 911 and used 911 to do it.
Even with all that, had they done a competent job of it (at the top - the troops did all they were asked of), then they might have pulled it off. I would have been nice to get rid of Saddam, yes, but it was a distraction from what we were doing at the time and the fact that the right wingers so vilified and attacked anyone who asked reasonable questions at the time meant there was going to be a backlash if the gamble didnt work. I dont know first hand but I have to believe you can easier accept your loved one being sent to fight in the war if you dont feel like you were lied to inorder to get them there and then the leadership ends up being incompetent.”

“Martin2, Believing that Saudi Arabia, or Afghanistan/Pakistan was the problem, did you sign up when you thought we would fight those responsible?
As you don't, and can't, know Wake-up, why make a personal attack such as you have? Why not address the points?
Semper fi”

“I am sure that a fighting man like you joined up to fight in Iraq”

“Yeah, we get it. We invaded a country that didn't attack us or have WMD. Terrorists were attacking us from Afghanistan and Pakistan. It all makes perfect sense.”

“We should have punished the the country that did the deed
simple enough. Then immediately a public investigation
on every aspect of the 911 atrocity. Since the 60's the
US Air force has a slandered policy 5 min after a plane is of course and not respond they have supersonic armed jet
planes flying to protect us. How did OB Laden make the
US Aor force stand down?”

“can we get real for a moment?

Iraq was invaded because Saddam embarrassed us on the world stage!”

“We invaded a country (Iraq) for the simple reason that we did not like them and were afraid of them.

Sets a good precedent, huh?

If this country can behave this way, what about everyone else? Someone who doesn't like us? Why should anyone come to our defense (we sure as hell aren't going to be able to defend ourselves, after we have bankrupted the nation fighting useless foreign wars).

By your argument, they have every right to come trash our country, if they choose and can do so. Why should anyone complain? WE did it.

THAT sounds like a winning plan for world peace...

Certain recipe for disaster, it looks like to me.”

“Oh yeah, discussed at the UN. I'm sure you've memorized Colin Powell's speech. It was so full of factual material. Read the reports (in the UK press) of the official inquiry into the Iraq War. It's clear the intel didn't say what we were told it did (with "no doubt", according to Cheney and Rice, though the actual reports were rife with doubts and caveats). This was, IMHO, a rampant overcompensation for the fact that the Bush Administration ignored the warning signs of the 9/11 attack and wanted to pre-empt any blowback from that by being bumptiously "proactive". Terrorists aren't quelled by war. The Italians and the Germans dealt with their terrorism threat in the 70s by law enforcement. But what do they know, they're Europeans.”

“So we waste over 4000 American lives, thousands of injured American's, hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis, and over a trillion dollars, based on a foolish assumption that Sadam would give aid to terrorists whom he despised. Saddam was a not a Muslim fanatic and did not trust fanatics. The Iraq war is up there with Vietnam as one of the biggest mistakes in American history.”

“Nothing you said makes any sense at all. Try again, armchair QB.”

“You are very delusional.

Iraq was a diversion from the so called "war on terror". We were lied to in order to get us there and it was, at the top (White House), run incompetently on top of it.”

“Have you ever realized that Saddam never, NEVER, attacked the US? That he didn't even have a chance nor even the inclination to do so? That you are constructing a paranoid, false scenario to justify a most criminal war? Indeed, US atrocities and interventions all over time and places are the reason so many people, rightly so, "don't like us".”

“Wake -up The guys that did it were Saudi's they trained in England and America
no connection to Iraq.”

“I agree with Wake-up; Thumbing your nose should surely be a capitol crime, and wtf lets kill a few hundred thousand civilians while we are at it...”

“What did 9/11 have to do with Saddam? You're doing exactly what Bush and Cheney did, conflating two unrelated matters to justify a war.”

“You're sooo right, as long as there are trillions $$$$ involved the politians will do whatever is needed to keep the hype alive.”