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Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Commented Jun 2, 2014 at 16:17:06 in Women

“I am not going to accept you moving the goal posts. I assume you will find most violence is male on male. I have never disputed that. However we are discussing sexual violence against males in the U.S.

In the study I cited the majority of the men who were "raped" were raped mostly by men, 1 in 71. In the "forced to penetrate section", which is weird you think a man being forced to penetrate another person without his consent is making the definition of rape broad, is 1 in 21 men mostly raped by women.

If you look back about what I have said I think you will find I have never denied women are raped more often than men, or that women are not the majority victims of domestic violence. Men are a minority of victims in these situations, but their number is not so insignificant that we can continue to ignore it like we currently do. Sadly I cannot say the SPLC shares my integrity in this instance.

I do not doubt you support advocating for men. I have to question if Grinling also would. She seems to be lacking a basic knowledge of biology, feminist theory, history, and in some cases reality. I would encourage you to look at her other responses to me or the responses of fallenarches where she "attacks" me even though we agree, because she thinks I am an MRA.”
Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Commented Jun 1, 2014 at 17:25:17 in Women

“That may be true, but that is you moving the goal posts. I have done none of that so again I don't see what your problem is with me. You are now trying to put the faults of others onto me.”

fallenarches on Jun 1, 2014 at 19:03:01

“If you argue in favor of "these men's rights groups" (which you did in your response to Marsha/MaryfromIL), you're going to get lumped in with them.”
Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Commented Jun 1, 2014 at 16:31:26 in Women

“I agree with all of that. In fact I will quote what I said in an above statement.

"To be exact Archer says 62% of the time so that would leave men being injured 38% of the time. Women still hold a majority for serious injuries, but 38% is still really high for men and not something that should be brushed aside. "

I would say the data is very clear on who is **actually** getting hurt as well. I also agree with with Anna North. I agree that damaging gender roles hurt everybody. I accurately cited a study, but pointed out that even though 38% of injuries is still a minority for men it shouldn't be ignored to the extent it currently is. Apparently that makes me an MRA who is gnashing my teeth and I am trying to shut down any conversation meant to address a very real and present problem in women's lives.

Nothing I have said or the research I have cited disagrees with anything you have said or the research you have cited. Women are the majority of domestic abuse victims, men are the minority, and I have never denied that so I will say this again. I don't know why me saying this threatens you, but you should reflect on why you feel threatened by this and are stereotyping me.”

fallenarches on Jun 1, 2014 at 17:18:04

“The problem is in the objections raised to attention given to violence against women. "Men's rights" groups use the issue of women's violence to argue that violence against women perpetrated by men is a false or trumped up issue perpetrated by a "misandrist" culture fixed on oppressing men. That's what's wrong with the reactionary response by decidedly misogynistic MRA groups. And if you look through the responses to this article, you'll find plenty of those types of responses.”
Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Commented Jun 1, 2014 at 08:39:17 in Women

“He wrote that book in 1993. If you read the study he did in 2000 you will see he got different results. If you read Capaldi's study from 2012 her results backed up his 2000 study. Since I have not read his book I cannot put my opinion out there on why things have changed, but there could be several reasons that include him not being wrong in either case.

For instance since the VAWA was passed in 1994 "The rate of nonfatal intimate partner violence against women has decreased by 63 percent and the number of women killed by an intimate partner has decreased 24 percent,".

Now I can only argue for correlation here, but since then violence against women by intimate partners has dropped significantly. I cannot tell you how much it has dropped against men since that date. It is hard to find data citing how VAWA has helped with men, but if the rate of abuse against men hasn't fallen or has fallen slower than the rate for women then the statistics would naturally change over time.

As I argued using more current statistics women do still have it worse in this area, but 38% is still a very large number compared to how much men are actually helped in this area I feel it is pertinent to talk about it. I cannot tell you exactly why you like to stereotype people that is something you should reflect on.”

fallenarches on Jun 1, 2014 at 14:50:59

“Your crowd tends to misuse the research; women are as likely to be angered as men, but we are raised with the message that expressing anger is 'unladylike', and therefore urged to suppress it. That suppression does not make the anger go away. Rather, women develop mechanisms for expressing anger that are often more oblique than directly confrontational. Women's anger trends more relational than physical. It's a pretty perverse situation.

Archer found in a 2004 cross cultural study that men are more physically aggressive than women (http://empower-daphne.psy.unipd.it/userfiles/file/pdf/ARCHER-9.pdf). "The overall pattern indicated males' greater use of costly methods of aggression rather than a threshold difference in anger." Meaning, yes, women are as likely to get angry as men, but men are substantially more likely to inflict real damage.

The data are clear on who is actually getting hurt. Part of that has to do with men's greater physical strength, but another at least as important part of it has to do with men's methods vs. women's. A woman may slap. A man is more likely to punch and choke. Men's LEVEL of violence is greater.

But as for domestic violence, in general, to quote Anna North, "If it's true that women abuse their partners as often as men do [albeit with less damage], there's no reason for feminists to feel threatened by this information, just as there's no reason for men's rights groups to feel victorious." Damaging gender roles hurt everybody. That's what we feminists have been saying all along.”
Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Commented May 31, 2014 at 05:55:21 in Women

“It was not an insult, and pointing out the fact that you were ignorant to it and that is why this group is needed is not an insult. That is like saying Susan G. Komen teaches someone about breast cancer that wasn't aware about it before, Susan G. Komen pointing out that is exactly why they are needed, and the person feeling insulted.

There is no fine line here it is completely wrong to rape or sexually assault a man just like it is wrong to do it to a women. The fact that so many people in this thread seem to be entirely ignorant that it even happens is amazing to me.”
Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Commented May 30, 2014 at 20:29:45 in Women

“It is just the only study I have talked about in this thread. It is not like there are no more out there. I am not sitting on huffingtonpost writing scholarly articles about it. I always suggest people go look at the studies and read it themselves. If citing studies from well known institutions isn't considered supporting my argument then I don't know what is. Why don't you come back with a response that is different from "I just don't believe it." and maybe I will respond again otherwise you aren't worth my time.”
Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Commented May 30, 2014 at 20:07:21 in Women

“As this is a telephone survey I doubt they got many cons on the phone.”
Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Commented May 30, 2014 at 17:36:56 in Women

“Also as a total aside Crowley is awesome, and I would love a full music video of him singing Changes.”
Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Commented May 30, 2014 at 17:35:47 in Women

“This is the first time I have encountered her since I don't post here much anymore. I can honestly for all the people who claim feminists are "crazy" or whatever hyperbole they want to use this is the first time I have ran into someone where I think their descriptions might be accurate.

I see it as a good thing though because if this is the first time I have encountered this in 30 years of life it means it isn't all that common, at least in my own little anecdotal world. I am a liberal atheist, and my cousin, who also is a philosophy professor, is a religious libertarian. We learn a lot from each other. He teaches me to craft arguments better, and I teach him a lot about the inner workings of our political systems. We both keep open minds and we actually agree on most issues.

I try to look at these gender debates in the same way. I haven't read her books yet, but I have enormous respect for Naomi Wolf's political work she has done and hope her books live up to that. I haven't met any, for lack of a better word, "leaders" in the mrm that I love, certainly not Paul Elam, but I have met singular mra's that have some great ideas and are awesome people e.g. not crazy misogynists. I guess I am saying I don't think most people are bad, and I won't let Grenling get me down!”

LadySabertooth on Jun 1, 2014 at 09:38:53

“Really in my case I'd seen many of her comments and often times she'd come across as harsh but on point. But now....I dunno this is really flat out appalling! But acknowledging hat men can and ARE in fact raped by women is in no way dismissing the experiences of female rape victims. How can one truly be for equality yet dismissing the pain of another group based on gender? You can't truly be for equality with a mindset like that. Now of course if a man made such a statement that women are rarely raped she'd be the main calling for the guy to walk the gallows, but it's ok for her to do? Like you said she fits the profile of "crazy feminist". I'm honestly heart-broken, Grenling really seemed to be more rational and empathetic than I originally thought.”
Medicare Can Pay For Transgender Recipients' Gender Confirmation Surgeries: Feds

Medicare Can Pay For Transgender Recipients' Gender Confirmation Surgeries: Feds

Commented May 30, 2014 at 15:47:47 in Business

“If you are impotent I am fairly certain they will pay for a penis implant. I believe John Stewart had on his show that they do pay for penis pumps. I don't think they will pay for breast implants even if a woman has a mastectomy, but I am not 100% sure on that point.”

darreng35 on Jun 1, 2014 at 21:49:52

“You have to be 65 to get Medicare.”
Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Commented May 30, 2014 at 15:27:02 in Women

“You mean the string of comments where Grinling G. responded to me saying "women don't/can't rape men."

So yes someone did say females raping males never happens, it was Grinling G., unless this comment section is messed up and just not showing me a reply where she said it does happen. I admit that is a possibility I have never liked this new comment section, but the fact that Grinling said, and I will repeat again, "women don't/can't rape men." is them explicitly saying females raping males never happens, and therefor it is not a problem. So you are wrong someone did in fact say it.

My point is it is a problem, and Grinling is denying it. The SPLC page you linked me also, whilst not explicitly lying, does in fact leave out a lot of "rapes" or "forced to penetrates" that happen only to men in that study (by men and women), and it seriously misrepresents Deborah M. Capaldi work which actually reinforced an earlier meta study by Archer. As to the third claim i will plead ignorance on. I have heard several studies about it cited, but have not read them myself.

Apparently Mark Potok and Evelyn Schlatter at the SPLC don't mind fudging the facts so they can paint men as "Misogynists in the men’s and fathers’ rights movements." If they disagree with the study that is fine, and they should give it a critique instead of erasing male victims of sexual assault. That's not okay.”

Suresp77 on Jun 2, 2014 at 11:11:44

“So is your intention to advocate to end rape of males? boys and men? Or is your position to try to stand up for MRA's and call Grinling and others who agree with her liars? Those are 2 separate things my friend.

Rape of men, violence against men, you can google 50 billions studies, from all over the world, and it will still come out that most violence against women is perpetrated by men, AS IS THE VIOLENCE AGAINST MEN. And that the rate of violence against men (in total, men and women attacking men) happens at a frequency less than a third of the frequency of attacks against women 33% being the rape statistic for omen, and 11% for men).

This is a problem: rape of males must be stopped. Advocate, I will support you, sure Grinling and most feminists will too- which is why on MRA forums with integrity, you will find feminist participants. On the hate groups though, you will only find very confused people of both genders trying to find an outlet.”
Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Commented May 30, 2014 at 15:06:58 in Women

“I am not stuck on one "study" (poll) it is just what I am citing here. There are several other meta studies on the issue if you would like to discuss it, but as you seem to just want to brush me off rather than have a real conversation I think I will take my leave of you. Good day.”

giftsthatpurr on May 30, 2014 at 21:14:00

“A person can run and hide - but when he does he is still with himself.”
Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Commented May 30, 2014 at 15:04:30 in Women

“Reading more of the page you linked me more closely I found another problem. It is referencing the same study by the CDC I was referencing. The CDC study does say, as the link claims, that 1 in 71 men have been raped. Their definition of rape is completed forced penetration, attempted forced penetration, or completed alcohol/drug facilitated penetration

If you go to the box below Rape to Other Sexual Violence the definitions for that is Made to penetrate, Sexual coercion, Unwanted sexual contact, and Non-contact unwated sexual experiences.

Made to penetrate includes questions like "When you were drunk, high, drugged,
or passed out and unable to consent, how many people ever...had vaginal sex with you? By vaginal sex, we mean that {if female: a man or boy put his penis in your vagina} {if male: a woman or girl made you put your penis in her vagina}?

So in this case if a man answers Yes a woman did make me penetrate her while I was drunk, high drugged, or passed out and unable to consent that it is not counted as "rape" even though colloquially or even legally that would be considered rape. If you also include their stat that 1 in 21 have been "forced to penetrate" then the amount of rapes to men goes up considerably, but is still less than female rapes. The first two "THE REALITY" on the link while not lying are highly misleading as to the results of the studies.”

Suresp77 on Jun 2, 2014 at 11:22:24

“You have a point- again, this must be addressed. Either way, Men are still not raped as much by women, no matter how broad and encompassing you make the definition as much as women are by men. Just as women do not commit as many mass murders, and are rarely serial killers so I would extrapolate roughly they are less likely to force themselves on unwilling participants. I agree though, any number higher than 0 though fro number of incidents has to be addressed.”
Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Commented May 30, 2014 at 14:31:51 in Women

“Well you can look at the statistics yourself. If you google NISVS 2010 you will find the study they did on the CDC website. I personally do think there are problems with the study, but I don't think the statistics are false. I think some of the questions they asked, to the men and women, were worded to ambiguously though. If you would like to learn more I believe they are in appendix B at the end of the study. I hope that is appalling enough data for you!”

giftsthatpurr on May 30, 2014 at 14:52:46

“Being stuck on only one "study" (poll) is like seeking knowlege in a narrow cave. There are many more "studies", and actual facts out there to be learned from, if one is seeking more than something to validate what they want to believe.”

giftsthatpurr on May 30, 2014 at 14:44:16

“I suggest you try reading factual data collected on actual facts, such as the Justice Dept or the FBI stats on rape.”
Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Commented May 30, 2014 at 14:27:15 in Women

“Actually if you read the users comment I was referring to they specifically said

"There are two primary reasons (aside from the nature of female sexuality, which doesn't prize conquest in the way that male sexuality seems to) why women don't/can't rape men."

So they specifically said that women cannot and do not rape men. As you stated a third of the time they are raped by a female. I am sorry if it came across like I said all of them were raped by woman. In another post, I think to another person, I did mention that it could include men in the "made to penetrate" section as well. So no I did not buy this nonsense as a way to rail against women taking away my opportunity for whatever opportunity you think I was looking for lol. I was trying to inform the above person that yes women can rape men which I will reiterate they deny it happens so I would count that as saying it is not an issue.

The thing is about the different studies, is that you cannot directly compare the numbers. The numbers given by the NIPSV survey might use, I would say probably uses, a different methodology and definitions than the meta analysis that was done by Deborah M. Capaldi or the BJS. In fact the link you sent me contains errors as to her data. She did not study only at risk youth, but adults as well.”

Suresp77 on May 30, 2014 at 14:47:06

“Derek, read the same strings as you which is what compelled me to comment:" no one said females raping males never happens, or that its not a problem. But by and large violent crimes are not committed by women. As the statistics on rape, but also on gun violence, serial killers, mass murders: women are very much the minority when it comes to perpetrating these attacks.

so whats your point it happens it must be addressed- where are you leading to here? we do care, we don't want any rape, male female of any other kind- and I think I can speak for all feminists on the planet with that statement.”
Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Commented May 30, 2014 at 10:53:48 in Women

“I don't think you know how this works. I don't HAVE to do anything. They asked for a citation, and I gave it to them and laid out the numbers more clearly. Now what I am going to do is hope they read the study, and make up their own mind.”

Grinling Gibbons on May 30, 2014 at 11:11:46

“I've read the study. It makes no sense. They don't explain how something that all of us know in our bones is virtually impossible (women routinely overpowering men for sex) is somehow a common occurrence. You can find a "study" on the internet to tell you anything you like. If it tells you, for example, that most dogs can fly if they jump out of trees, you don't have to believe it. You are permitted to use your common sense, and your rational abilities to think logically about the world as you know it.”
Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Commented May 30, 2014 at 10:03:21 in Women

“"According to the US Department of Justice, blacks accounted for 52.5% of homicide offenders from 1980 to 2008"

I mean not all blacks are going to kill you, but how do they prove they aren't going to murder you? However, concern for safety is a more serious issue than if blacks should be able to come into my place of business.

Really just replace "dude" or "male' with any other gender, race, or sexual orientation and this thinking is shunned in liberal circles. The fact that stuff like that can be said on a liberal news site and no one, except me, calls it out is why events like this happen.”

LadySabertooth on Jun 1, 2014 at 08:15:42

“You touched on some very key issues here.”
Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Commented May 30, 2014 at 09:41:59 in Women

“Well most of the time when I interact with mra's they usually talk about men being the majority of homeless people, the majority of suicides, , false rape accusations, and losing custody of their children.

I can't speak about AVFM because I have hardly been there or read articles they put out, but most people I have talked to in the movement seem to want the same thing feminists want. The eradication of gender roles, but they just think feminism isn't working as well for men as it has for women.”
Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Commented May 30, 2014 at 09:30:05 in Women

“Well I am very sympathetic to the MRM, but I can't say I am in favor of this meeting because of who it is ran by, AVFM. Although I have read some articles by people on AVFM they have been few and far between, and not all of them have been bad. I just remember really not liking Paul Elam. I know feminists really do not like him, and a lot of people in the MRM seem to have conflicting opinions about him. I really should go read some of his articles and check for myself what his writing says, but I have just been avoiding it because I assume I will hate it.”
Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Commented May 30, 2014 at 09:16:55 in Women

“Wow, you mean people taking a survey and self reporting data. Man that is like 90% of studies in sociology. I guess we should just throw all our information on society away since we **all know** what is true and untrue, and how **those** types are.

Or it could just mean you are close minded. I am sufficiently convinced you are just close minded so I can tell I am not going to be able to change your mind with silly things like facts, and studies because if they don't say what you think they should they are obviously logically inconsistent. What I will do is hope that you will one day be enlightened and work towards a better future for all humankind instead of being a rape apologist like Steve King. I mean we all know men can't be victims of “legitimate rape” because his body would “shut that whole thing down"!”

goneundone on May 30, 2014 at 19:53:34

“one study does not an argument make. And you have not otherwise supported your argument... you cannot be surprised at reluctance to accept your premise that rape is just as big a problem/concern/danger for men as women.”

LadySabertooth on May 30, 2014 at 16:13:52

“I honestly thought she was better than all this and it's clear I was wrong about her.

SMH.”

Grinling Gibbons on May 30, 2014 at 09:31:02

“Over 500 people a month report UFO sightings in the US. Does that mean we are visited by space aliens 500 times a month - just here in the US? Self reported anonymous surveys tell us virtually NOTHING about reality.

This meaningless data contradicts the lived reality of virtually every person on earth. It is a logical contradiction. You are defending it despite admitting that it is virtually impossible for women to overpower men in order to allow such a phenomenon to take place. Swallowing self reported surveys without using our common sense or intellectual analytic ability is not a sane way to approach any issue.

"I mean we all know men can't be victims of “legitimate rape” because his body would “shut that whole thing down"!

Another straw man. Of course men are raped ... by MEN. Why are you distracting from a TRUE problem by hiding behind a straw man?”
Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Commented May 30, 2014 at 09:05:07 in Women

“Newsflash: I never said it wasn't, until now that is. Women are the majority of domestic violence victims, but they are not the vast majority. Although that word vast is a little vague so you never know we might not disagree it just depends.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10989615

This meta-analysis of studies done by John Archer in 2000 that women are slightly more likely than men to initiate violence, but women are injured more often.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3384540/#R4

Then there is this meta-analysis for the National Institute of Health that analyzed 95 different articles and they came up with the same results.

"The reviewed studies generally indicate that men and women are relatively equally likely to perpetrate IPV (Woodward, Fergusson, & Horwood, 2002) or that women show somewhat higher rates than men...the study indicated that, in the nonclinically abusive relationships, perpetrators were primarily women. In clinically abusive relationships, men and women used physical abuse, although more women needed medical treatment for injury."

So they both showed the same thing women initiate violence at around the same rate that men do, but they are injured more often. To be exact Archer says 62% of the time so that would leave men being injured 38% of the time. Women still hold a majority for serious injuries, but 38% is still really high for men and not something that should be brushed aside.”

fallenarches on May 31, 2014 at 21:33:38

“Did you know that John Archer has written a book on male violence (called Male Violence) and that he states within that most human violence is perpetrated by men? And backs that up with solid data?

Why is it that you MRA types wail and gnash your teeth claiming that male victims of violence are being "brushed aside" every time anyone talks about the actually much larger problem of violence against women? Is it really because you care about violence against men (at the hands of women), or is it that you are trying to shut down any conversation meant to address a very real and present problem in women's lives? I'll place my bets on the latter.”
Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Commented May 30, 2014 at 08:13:25 in Women

“You must be allergic to what feminism actually is. Men did not create the concept of being a "real" man. Society did that. Women and men did that. Women and men both hold up the patriarchy. Being a woman does not equal being a feminist. The person I am replying to is helping reinforce gender norms whether they are part of the MRA or not. I personally have never seen mra's blame feminists for creating "manning up" comments, but I have heard them criticize feminism, that is supposed to help men too, for not doing enough to help men break out of traditional gender roles. You may agree or disagree with that, but you should concentrate on refuting what they actually say rather than making them into straw men.”

Grinling Gibbons on May 30, 2014 at 09:36:58

“"Women and men did that."

Men created the patriarchy. This is a documented historic fact. Women would never have created a cultural system that denigrated them and reduced them to objects of utility in the lives of men. Men abused their physical dominance to force women into roles that were most amenable to males. That is reality. The concept of being a "real" man is an entirely male created and male driven phenomenon. There is no correlating concept with women. We never try to be "real" women or "become" women. We understand the process as organic. It is only men that have created artificial constructs to define the "meaning" of being men. All of Western literature and philosophy confirms this to be the case.

:Being a woman does not equal being a feminist."

Being a first world woman does indeed equal being a feminist - since we enjoy the benefits of feminism that our third world sisters suffer so much from not having.

What do you propose women do to help men break out of traditional gender roles? Feminists already support the concept of men as nurturers, as caregivers, as stay at home parents. We are not the ones who are homophobic. We don't police masculinity and whether a guy is a "real" man. This is what men do - ESPECIALLY the MRA guys. In fact, they will angrily deride and degrade any woman who tries to have input as trying to "emasculate" men. Deal with this reality please.”
Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Commented May 30, 2014 at 08:06:54 in Women

“I am not saying women are going drugging men like crazy. That is you making a straw man argument about the study you haven't read yet. Maybe you should look it up and read it. I actually do have problems with the study, but they are actual problems not ones I made up because of anecdotal evidence about how we all "know" certain things are untrue. We don't need to check out intelligence at the door to discuss this topic. In fact I think you should go get yours, and read the study. NISVS 2010 Google it.”

goneundone on May 30, 2014 at 19:48:09

“remove all rape during incarceration from the numbers”

Grinling Gibbons on May 30, 2014 at 08:16:01

“I've read it. They provide nothing to corroborate their data. It's self reported data from a questionnaire.They don't address the obvious logical inconsistency. It's clearly absurd.

I am an average sized woman. I could not rape the average sized man - or even a small, wiry adult male - under any conceivable circumstances. Women simply don't have the physical dominance to accomplish that act.”
Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Commented May 30, 2014 at 07:52:33 in Women

“I assume he is talking about the NISVS 2010 survey. Under the definition of rape it lists completed forced penetration, attempted forced penetration, and completed alcohol/drug facilitated penetration. So if a man is penetrated with an object he is considered raped.

Under other sexual violence it has listed made to penetrate, sexual coercion, unwanted sexual contact, and non-contact unwanted sexual experiences.

So if you take those stats the survey gives separately then 1 in 71 men are raped, and 1 in 21 men are made to penetrate someone they didn't want to. Colloquially we would say those both count as rape. In the study they have different names, but are both considered sexual violence.

The FBI's old definition of rape "the carnal knowledge of a female forcibly and against her will" also left out male victims. The updated definition is a little more ambiguous, however over on reddit some feminists and mra's got together and questioned Ms. Mary P. Reese from the Crime Statistics Unit about it. She said that the new definition does cover male victims, but they would take into consideration ways to make it less ambiguous.

I am fairly certain that even though the old definition did not allow for men being "raped" that they could press charges against their attacker for sexual assault if enough evidence was produced.”

Grinling Gibbons on May 30, 2014 at 09:49:26

“"1 in 21 men are made to penetrate someone they didn't want to."

If you're going to cite that number, you're going to have to explain how such a thing is possible. Please specify exactly how women can overpower men in order to accomplish such a feat. WIthout this explanation, that is a meaningless number.”
Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Controversial Men's Rights Conference Sparks Backlash

Commented May 30, 2014 at 07:10:42 in Women

“I no where said men face it in equal numbers. I cited no numbers whatsoever. You also seem to have no knowledge of biology. Yes men can push women off them, but men can keep an erection during a sexual encounter they do not want. The fact that you do not already know this shows your ignorance of human biology. You should probably go learn about male rape victims before someone thinks you are a rape apologist.

You might want to start with the NISVS 2010 survey. The survey states in the 12 month period before the survey 1,267,000 men were forced to penetrate someone they did not want to, there were 1,669,000 counts of sexual coercion, and 2,565,000 of unwanted sexual contact. For women there was no forced to penetrate, 2,410,000 cases of sexual coercion, and 2,600,000 cases of unwanted sexual contact.

So yes it is bad for women who are the victims of sexual violence, but it is still pretty bad for men as well.The fact that you think trying to stop men getting raped and sexually assaulted, by women or other men, or even talking about the issue is co-opting something meant for women again shows why these groups are needed.”

Suresp77 on May 30, 2014 at 13:40:56

“No one said that rape of men was not an issue. Your own statistics though bear out that women are attacked at TWICE the rate men are.But your raw numbers say nothing about who the attackers are so here is info on that:

'In fact, the 2000 Department of Justice study found that violence against both women and men is predominantly male violence. Nine in 10 women (91.9%) who were physically assaulted since the age of 18 were attacked by a male, while about one in seven male assault victims (14.2%) were victimized by females. Similarly, all female rape victims in the study were attacked by a male, while about a third of male victims (35.8%) were raped by a female". http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2012/spring/myths-of-the-manosphere-lying-about-women

So yeah, when males are raped, 66% of the time its not by a female at all.

Yes this is a problem, yes it needs to be addressed, but maybe if you find out who the perpetrators are you will have more success addressing this? Because your lack of knowledge about this tells me you bought the nonsense as a way to rail against women taking your opportunity.”

giftsthatpurr on May 30, 2014 at 12:42:39

“Using false statisstics and inane comments about a trumped up issue is what is appalling.”

Grinling Gibbons on May 30, 2014 at 07:29:33

“"Yes men can push women off them,"

That admission right there proves the other figures stated were false. Men may face unwanted sexual contact and you know what they can do? LEAVE. Women often don't have this option. I would really like to hear how or why over 1 million men (in that inane or clearly misunderstood study) didn't just LEAVE when being "forced to penetrate". ARe you saying there are over 1 million cases a year where women are drugging men or tying them down and then forcing them to have sex and all those over 1 million men had involuntary erections that they maintained while drugged or tied down? Why aren't we hearing more about this plague of female rapists who drug men, tie them down and then try to coax their erections into performance?

Look, certain things are inane and obviously untrue on their face and that "statistic" is one of them. We'd need a lot more than numbers on a page for us to counteract what our lived experience and common sense tells us is true.

it's a disgusting attempt to derail the conversation about a REAL problem - one as old as time,men raping and abusing women. I'm not saying there aren't rare occasions where a male is overpowered into unwanted sex by a woman. I'm sure it has happened and that anecdotes exist. But that number is clearly wrong. We don't need to check our intelligence at the door to discuss this topic.”
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