“For someone like Michelle Rhee to fail to acknowledge how woefully unqualified she is to hold the jobs she's held and have her opinions respected as they have been is, at the very least, extreme arrogance bordering on evil. She simply can't be a decent person, because a decent person would have said, "Whoa, why are you offering me this job? Why are you interviewing me about education?"”
Dignity24601 on Dec 10, 2013 at 01:55:53
“Hate to break it to you, but Rhee would not be unique. There are many people out there that have been offered jobs well about their level of competence. Few if any ever admit it. The largest state in the union is the state of denial. She would convince herself that she is the best person for the job far before she would ever admit otherwise. Not evil though, just self deluded. Certainly these people cause damage. Note that my point with the union is similar. Arguing in some matters of policy may have a positive effect, however they also have a biased view and may not see the big picture (not a matter of good or evil, or smart or otherwise, just a matter of exposure and experience)”
“The teachers' union is consistently the only organized group pushing for what's good for kids and resisting bad policy. But if you lie to people and repeat it often enough, they'll believe you and hate the union. And then they'll cheer when you break the union, even though it means kids will suffer.”
“The test scores that cause us to designate a school as "failing" are overwhelmingly more dependent on out-of-school factors than on anything going on in schools. So if you take a bunch of low-scoring kids, close their schools, and send them to higher-scoring schools, you've just created new, more crowded low-scoring schools.
And that's even if you didn't have someone like Emanuel in charge, who seems dead-set on defunding public schools to divert the funding to semi-private charters.”
“Well, you've said things. They remain untrue, but you've said them.
Meanwhile, in reality unions fight to protect the process that allows the firing of bad teachers while protecting good ones, and while they do oppose vouchers, that's very much in the best interests of students.”
heian120 on Dec 10, 2013 at 09:43:35
“Ya sure - lets give parents no choices - and tell em "its in your interest" - what BS.
as for the Unions "firing bad teachers" LOL
According to the pro-education reform documentary Waiting for ‘Superman,’ one out of every 57 doctors loses his or her license to practice medicine.
One out of every 97 lawyers loses their license to practice law.
"Steve Jobs says teachers unions protect bad teachers - can't reward the good ones
Steve Jobs is speaking out. A few weeks ago he said the music labels should eliminate DRM protection. This week he said "I believe that what is wrong with our schools in this nation is that they have become unionized in the worst possible way". http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next_big_thing/2007/02/steve_jobs_says.html
“Tenure doesn't allow the teachers to decide if the principal is competent; it just prohibits principals from firing good teachers.
And our funding isn't really the highest in the world, considering differences in costs between countries. But if you take our ridiculously high level of poverty out of the equation and compare students living in similar levels, we DO have the highest test scores in the world.”
“There aren't nearly enough bad teachers to be the cause of our educational problems, which mostly walk in the door with the students. Have you really never had an incompetent boss who, for whatever reason, wasn't fired? Do you really believe it doesn't happen in schools?
I mean, it's very obvious that you have no idea what you're talking about, but I have a hard time believing you're THAT clueless.”
charles77 on Dec 9, 2013 at 11:07:03
“If there is an incompetent supervisor or principle the School Board fires them, until that happens, they fire teachers.
It is NOT up to teachers to "decide" if the principle is incompetent or not, that's is way above thier pay grade.
Bottom line is schools are generously funded, highest funding in the world, yet test scores are low.”
“Choosing to support the (MUCH) lesser evil, while aware of their shortcomings, is not remotely "blindly" supporting them. I'm not sure you can even describe top union leadership as "evil," though that certainly applies to those with which I contrasted them. Union leadership just isn't quite as good as it should be.”
Dignity24601 on Dec 9, 2013 at 21:18:22
“I do not consider the top union people as being evil. Neither do I so describe the people from StudentsFirst or any other organization. The more you get into an organization and away from the front lines, the more your views on issues changes. I think that they all think they are doing the right thing as they see it. I just question their ability to consistently see clearly what is right for the kids.
Note, the above applies to all other professions and bodies, not just those linked to education.”
“Well, now we know what the ignorant think. But really, they shouldn't. That's why tenure was enacted: to protect good teachers in the event that they had bad administrators. That's in kids' best interests.”
charles77 on Dec 8, 2013 at 20:28:08
“If an administrator is bad they are fired by the elected school board.
Keeping all the bad teachers we have know is the reason our schools are failing, and until administrators can fire bad teachers, school are getting any more money.
“Teachers don't think they should be exempt from that rule. They just know more about education than you do, and they object to being measured by something that doesn't reflect the quality of their work. Very justifiably.”
“Tenure isn't the whole answer, but it's certainly part of it. If, as you suggest, a teacher starts going through the motions and not doing a good job ten or twenty years into his career, tenure allows us to get rid of him. If he doesn't, if he's still doing a good job, tenure protects him. That's a good thing, since it means kids won't lose their best teachers for reasons that have nothing to do with how well they do their jobs.”
“Tests don't measure how well teachers have taught. Most of the factors that affect test scores are out-of-school factors. This is established, even if a number of people who haven't bothered to find out the facts remain ignorant of it.
They don't do what you claim they do.”
Reasonable Doubter on Dec 8, 2013 at 15:14:51
“Well, that's what they're supposed to do. Otherwise how do you measure if a teacher is doing an adequate job? Would you suggest they be judged on popularity or good attendance instead? In any job, your work is judged - you are judged - on the quality and/or quantity of said work. If you work hard, do a good job & have a proven track record of success, you can count on a better raise, promotion, etc. Why (some) teachers feel they should be exempt from that rule seems a little odd.”
“And while I'm sure it was a cut and paste, it was a cut and paste from a different article. Re-read it yourself.”
be practical on Dec 8, 2013 at 16:27:53
“Strange. I did a search on HP for the quote - nothing. I did on Google and it came out of the New Jersey 'Education Funding Report', 2/2013. Now I know that I did not look up the report, and I know I did a copy/ paste, so for some reason HP deleted it.
My point was, if getting rid of bad teachers means going through the BS to do it, then they should. I don’t think teachers all are bad, I respect what they do – I think it’s a difficult job. But the reality is, and not just with teachers, you can be great at your occupation at first, but for whatever reason, you become disillusioned 5, 10 15 years down the road and you just don’t care anymore. Yet, it’s easier to continue doing whatever it takes squeak through the day just for the paycheck. I don’t care if you’re talking teachers, trash collector, or CEO. And I’m not saying this is everyone, I’m saying some teachers, like people in all other professions, CAN become bad at their job. Tenure after 3 years is not the answer for our schools.
“CCSS will make very little difference in schools. It's mostly a hype to sell new tests. Even the practice of (wrongfully) holding teachers accountable for student test scores isn't new; under CCSS, there will just be slightly different tests.
If it wasn't clear before, this should make it very clear that you don't know what you're talking about.”
Reasonable Doubter on Dec 7, 2013 at 20:11:30
“Teachers are there to teach. Tests are there to measure how well they've actually done that & how well students have learned. If test scores are consistently poor - across the board not just a few bad scores - then yes, there's clearly a problem with the teaching going on.
Of course there will always be the exceptions of "troublemaker kids" that refuse to pay attention & work hard but they are the exception, not the rule.”
“No, it doesn't make sense. But those kids' behavior is much more the result of their parents than their teachers, and it's no surprise to me that kids who consistently behave horrible in school later do so outside of school.
The main part that doesn't make sense to me is why their parents let them act that way, and why we as a society don't do more to alleviate the poverty that compounds the problem.
Nowhere, there, are the teachers' unions at fault.”
carjdcpa on Dec 7, 2013 at 11:15:32
“So teachers unions support racial quotas for school discipline. Therefore teachers unions are absurd. Take your good kids out of public school so they don't get their record messed up in the dragnet will be what happens.”
“Perhaps some do. There's variation in any big group. But teachers as a group are usually on the right side of education policy debates, and "teachers as a group" is pretty much the same thing as "teachers' unions."”
carjdcpa on Dec 7, 2013 at 09:29:53
“Does the term "school to prison pipeline" make sense to you? What is wrong with these teachers who are responsible for all that as alleged and apparently agreed. Why do they subject themselves and now the children to the consequences of that allegation and the perversions that result?”
carjdcpa on Dec 7, 2013 at 09:15:11
“Teachers "as a group" should use their power to save the schools so alternatives are not neccesary.”