“I realized the error of my way, as Jesus is the supreme authority and if he wanted women to lead the Church he would have chosen women amongst the 12. I had to do a lot of soul searching and I realized it was rebellion, not Biblical truth that had me try to go down the path of leaving the RCC and RCC Doctrine, which God showed me in prayer and through other means, including Biblical, is truth. To violate what Jesus and Acts set up as the structure is not acceptable not then and not ever. God is same always whether on moral doctrine, including what is moral sin and what constitutes the structure of his church. I don't do anything because anyone tells me so. Not in my nature, unless it is the Holy Spirit guiding me to read, research things in particular.”
jbarelli on May 28, 2014 at 14:23:32
“It is my experience that God and the Holy Spirit direct what we, as individuals are supposed to do. I could be that God has some other task in mind for you, and so shows you that you are not supposed to be a teacher. If so, fine.
But... While the culture of Paul's time (and Jesus' time, for that matter) was not ready to accept women as equals, able to be students, asking questions of their teachers and in turn teaching others, Jesus readily accepted women as students. Paul was unable to get past that point, Jesus didn't seem to have a problem with it.
The Apostles were all male. Not surprising for the time and place. They were also all Jewish, yet we don't require all ordained pastors to be Jewish. None of them were black or Oriental, yet we have black and Oriental priests.
The same reasoning you use against ordaining women works equally well against ordaining black priests, yet we recognize that as being nonsense. (Although that actual reasoning has been used in the past by some denominations.)
Bottom line. Neither you nor I have the requisite knowledge to be able to say "end of debate" except for our own calling from the Holy Spirit. We cannot and must not judge the calling of another.”
“Not as his disciples and he did not give them the Key to the kingdom, or ask a woman to feed his sheep. Would they prophecy, yes. Would they halp, yes, but Bishops etc... the requirements as given by Paul, as Jesus gave to him, are for men, end of debate.”
jbarelli on May 11, 2014 at 01:52:27
“Hmmm. I always appreciate it when I get to speak with someone who claims to infallibly know the mind of God.
Learned, devout Christians study for lifetimes without such a full and complete understanding of exactly what God wants in particular situations.
People with multiple doctorates in ancient languages and theology impress me. Do you prefer "Doctor" or "Professor"? Pray tell me how many years studying ancient Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic it took, along with the many trips to study ancient archives to be able to say "end of debate"?
I look forward to reading your peer reviewed scholarly articles on the subject.
(Please don't tell me that you just read that part of the King James Bible that your pastor told you were applicable.)
I do have a question about using Paul as the reference for the requirements, as you seem to be comfortable teaching on the matter. Personally, I have always considered Paul to be a beloved and respected early leader of the church, but still a person of his time, subject to the errors of his time. (God often makes use of flawed tools.)
If he was simply a beloved and respected leader, we can respectfully disagree with him, and as Jesus was silent on the matter, women can be ministers and bishops.
But if he is the definitive reference, what do you make of 1 Timothy 2:12?
“We have to start with peace somehow and the way the churches go, society goes. I belief firmly in the Bible as God's full, complete truth, but hatred of each other will get us nowhere. We have start dialogue, women must be brought to a place of respect, dignity, education, able to have family and their talents, potential realized in all societies.”
“Is sex abuse trauma yes, absolutely, but equate it with something like what let's say warlike torture would be is disingenuous. Again one must not protect the predator, nor minimize the damage suffered by those abused, but don't throw words like torture around so blatantly. Sexual predators are not found in in the Catholic institutions alone. Have you looked at our public schools, how unions protect their teachers? That's equally disgusting. No true person of God and Faith would ever do harm to a child, only one who was lost and void of true relationship with Christ would.”
“Jesus as the Logos, Word of God did not ordain women, and gave no such instruction to Paul, so the matter is closed. I was misguided myself as to this matter, but God set me straight and may the Catholic Church never change on this matter and never listed to TUTU or liberal progressives on anything.”
Jamaicaning on May 6, 2014 at 20:26:57
“Using that argument Jesus's inner circle of Disciples were also all Jews. Should we then not ordain non jews as well?”
jbarelli on May 6, 2014 at 18:17:20
“Ms. Lincourt's reply made one good point, but there is another she left out.
The first people to witness to the risen Christ were women.
"When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might go to anoint Jesus' body. Very early on the first day of the week, just after sunrise, they were on their way to the tomb and they asked each other, 'Who will roll the stone away from the entrance of the tomb?' But when they looked up, they saw that the stone, which was very large, had been rolled away. As they entered the tomb, they saw a young man dressed in a white robe sitting on the right side, and they were alarmed. 'Don't be alarmed,' he said. 'You are looking for Jesus the Nazarene, who was crucified. He has risen! He is not here. See the place where they laid him. But go, tell his disciples and Peter, He is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him, just as he told you.'" Mark 16:1-7
"When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had driven seven demons. She went and told those who had been with him and who were mourning and weeping." Mark 16:9-10
Jesus not only chose women to bring His message, he chose women first. So, now they're not supposed to?”
Ellen Lincourt on May 6, 2014 at 16:20:56
“Oy! Jesus never ordained anyone. Ordination is something that people came up with AFTER Jesus. He called people. He had lots of women followers. Seeing that the 3rd Council of Carthage edited the Bible from a great many sources, almost 400 years after Jesus's death, it's kind of hard to be really sure of whether he called men exclusively.”
“This Bishop is not getting that women in the Catholic Church are true feminists, just look at St. Catherine of Sienna, Joan of Ark and the many strong women in the faith who had great impact, like St. Frances Cabrini. Even modern saints who balanced family, and career. Does he forget Pope John Paul speaking of Feminine Genius? Catholicism understands true feminism.”
“If he is transformed, the family is, or anyone by such an experience, leave it alone, we all should leave it to them to decide what it means to them. Science is a tool, but not the answer to anything about the why of life, only the how the mechanics work. Even theologians, only know the surface of anything, even they don't know a heck of a lot no matter how much they meditate, study etc... they will never know all that is God, creation etc... never.”
“They said this nation was created for a moral and religious people. The Bible was paid for by Congress, distributed by Congress, was the primer for education, State Constitutions, and our monuments attest to our Christian heritage, suck it up. If big babies are scared to hear a prayer because awww they will be influenced, then they are weak and big babies.”
“How did he know about the stillborn child? if there are things he said that he could not have known, how do you explain it? Think because you are all "rational" only you have the answers to life etc.., you know nothing.”
jestermarcus on Apr 22, 2014 at 15:37:23
“Again, just because he said it, doesn't mean I have to believe it. There are numerous plausible explanations such as he overheard his parents speak of it, a family member told him in secret, they could have just told him and then they lied about it. All of those are much more plausible than him going to heaven and speaking to Jesus.
“If one has a profound experience that causes them to change their life 180 for the better, that is a great thing, whatever that experience was, don't take it away from them. Was it God, or something else? Whatever it was, if it make a positive impact on them and the family, let it be.”
“Only thing that means is can't establish a state church, prevent the free exercise of religion or force a particular religion on every person in the nation, otherwise free exercise of, don't like it leave the room.”
cezook on Apr 22, 2014 at 17:19:58
“Sorry, but every time they pray out loud, they are trying to influence others. No one ever said they can't observe a moment of silent prayer. Also, if you want to know what some of the founders thought about religion, I suggest you read the Federalist Papers (Spoiler: They had no use for it in government )”
“Yes and no. It depends also on the denomination and where the study is conducted. You have to look at a lot of factors. Catholics and Jews do tend to be more Ecumenical than let's say southern Pentecostal or Southern Baptists.”
“Depends on how one is taught. God as a just God, just like a just legal system has to punish wrong doing, just like parent has to have rules, consequences etc..., but there is also love, mercy and redemption. Only when there is not a clear true understanding of God, Christ, the Holy Spirit, sin nature, redemption ect... will that happen.”
“DUH. The very first thing Adam and Eve are told is to steward and have dominion, but have dominion means care for, not destroy and do what you wish at the expense of earth. Common sense, the earth is our home a gift from the creator, so we should care for it.”
“Science is a tool given by God to better understand him and the universe he created. I don't go to some scientist to tell me how to understand the Bible, no Christian should who has any common sense. The Bible tells us how to understand life and the sciences, as tools, just tools, nothing more, tools we are to respect as gifts from God and use very cautiously and very wisely.”
“It should be specific. If you work for a religious institution, educational one and are going to be teaching there especially, then you should be an example and living that theology, that faith or not work there, as it is morally, ethically wrong to do so.”
“I believe after having looked, at material on pre-seven year, and mid seven year and no rapture and prayed about it, in mid seven year rapture. However, whatever happens, I know God is in control and I trust him totally. What will be is what God has determined will be and he will care for us who trust in him totally.”
“1. Revelation is not history. It is apocalyptic narrative. This is a type of writing which uses vivid images, visions, sounds, etc. It is like Daniel. It is essentially designed to carry a message to those who hear it (it was read aloud in worship): The message is: God is in charge of history. The great beast, the Roman Empire, will fall, and all will be well. Even if Nero is in power, the message of the Savior will endure and overcome.
The parallel to this is like writing a letter to someone in Moscow during the Soviet period saying: The USSR is going to fall, have faith, and it will happen. If you said that directly, you would have it confiscated, and if you were also in the USSR you'd be in trouble.
Revelation and the prophets are very much mis-read today. Until the 19th century, "millennialism" was very rare. Jesus tells his disciples: You don't know when the father is returning, not even the Son (Jesus). What is being promised in Revelation is that the creation (Earth) is being restored, and the God of Jesus will come to live with God's own people, in a new Jerusalem, where there is no longer darkness and suffering, for the light is eternal.
"The Rapture" and trying to figure out what verse you're on is a losing proposition. Believe and trust. Period (Check out Barbara Rossing: "Rapture Exposed" An excellent read from a real biblical scholar.
“Bull. Marxism and Communism are an abomination, that still hurt Korea and other nations, as does religious legalism. Only a true free market economy with government only as gatekeeper, all having private innovative out of the box solutins to progressing is the answer. All else is slavery by government.”
“Gravity etc.. creating self, bull, crap not logical, never will be. The Bible makes it all clear and still is compatible with microevolution and corruption due to sin and the sin nature, Period. Nothing will change my mind.”
moishel herskovitz on Jun 29, 2014 at 14:15:33
“...and there is the rub. Religion does that to people, closing their minds to any other possibility. Humans created God, for the same (but tidier) reasons humans created science. Both religion and science gave it a name, but the Universe was here long, long before us. That is fact, how long is disputable, but it is fact. Even the Earth, which exists in a teeny, tiny corner of an immense galaxy, which lies off to the known centre in an unfathomably immense Universe, is much older than humans.
Religion and philosophy were also created by humans, and both have a tough time with a beginning ex nihilo. Just because mere humans can't comprehend it, doesn't mean it is not possible. As for the corruption due to sin, well...that's a viewpoint I guess. It is unclear to me why a benevolent creator would create something then instantly corrupt it, unless to endlessly search for an impossible redemption. Sounds like plain hubris to me.”