“I get why you saying i'm cold hearted, but honestly i'm not. I guess i just live by a different moral code. No matter what anyone says when it comes down to it she broke the laws of her school district. I never said she should be punished, for god sake she's clearly a really bright girl working to support her family and I applaud her for that, I said she needs to deal with the CONSEQUENCES of not going to school. Punishment and consequences are two different concepts. Maybe she should have spoken to teachers or guidance counselor and told them about her situation, maybe they could have helped her in some way.”
Lily Ng on May 29, 2012 at 16:13:53
“So megpeg, you've never broken the law? No, you just haven't been caught. With your thinking, we don't need judges. We have laws, right? Everyone must obey the law at all times, regardless of circumstance. You must stop at all red lights even if someone is having a heart attack in your car. Just because there is a law, it doesn't mean it's right.
Have you ever spit gum on the sidewalk? Jaywalked? Ridden your bike on the sidewalk instead of the street? Please don't pretend to be the one person on this board with the moral fortitude to stand up for all laws.
Laws are meant to be interpreted, and there's also "intent of the law," as in who the laws are intended for (delinquents, etc.). Clearly, the law was not written with the intention of this particular circumstance.
There's a reason why no one "favorites" your posts. A little flexibility in your perspective will go along way in terms of compassion and understanding.”
“I did read the story. And I looked up the student handbook for this school district and it states, "School employees must investigate and report violations of the state compulsory attendance law. A student absent without permission from school; from any class; from required special programs, such as additional special instruction, termed “accelerated instruction” by the state; or from required tutorials will be considered in violation of the compulsory attendance law and subject to disciplinary action. A court of law may also impose penalties against both the student and his or her parents if a school-aged student is deliberately not attending school."
The school legally has to report her. I agree that the court didn't have to deal with it in the way they did. But she was given a warning in April and obviously continued with missing school. But I do 100% agree with you that the parents need to be held accountable in this situation too. Someone of her age should not be dealing with this all on her own.”
Iowa Fixer on May 29, 2012 at 12:23:13
“Psssst. The school had to legally report for absence without PERMISSION FROM THE SCHOOL.
You point out where they dropped the ball. They could have excused some of her absences to keep her below the radar of JAIL.
I posted the handbook to this forum for people to read. I was certain as I did so that some people would NOT read pages 14 and 15, but just jump to the law itself and say----'end of thinking'.”
Tane555 on May 29, 2012 at 09:48:45
“I was just wondering, since an excused absence would be one accompanied by a note from a parent or guardian, how would she get ine of those?.....and since she is head of household, couldn't she conceivably write one for herself? Sounds trivial when I ask but..............”
hoppybunny on May 29, 2012 at 09:28:39
“"A court of law MAY also..."
sounds to me like they don't HAVE to do anything regarding courts. What happened to in-school "disciplinary action?"”
“I never said it was mandatory and know full well that education is not mentioned in the constitution, and for good reason. The founders wanted most aspects of life managed by those who were closest to them, either by state or local government. The Texas state compulsory school attendance laws dictate that school is mandatory for children between the ages of 6 and 18.”
hoppybunny on May 29, 2012 at 09:29:30
“don't make excuses for a lazy judge and broken system.”
“There are rules. When people break them, FOR WHATEVER REASON, they should be made to deal with the consequences. The law isn't a shade of grey. Its black and white. I feel bad for her, she clearly needs to cut down on either school work or working, but she broke the rules so tough.”
FoxieJD on May 29, 2012 at 15:14:23
“From the section of handbook guidelines that you quoted in response to spotcheck, it sounds like the only thing the school was "required" to do was approach her with "disciplinary action", which is at the discretion of the school. They didn’t have to send her to a court of law to sort out her absences; the judge didn’t have to jail her, as the section specifically says “may also impose penalties”. If the school opted to just send her to court in April without ACTUALLY investigating her case (which, if they had truly investigated, they might have reported her situation to social services as a case of child abandonment), and then a judge decided not to use the leniency that is granted to judges in juvenile courtrooms, which, when it comes to children, the law should never be black and white anyway.
And the law very much is a shade of grey; that would be the nature of living documents, as our legal system is made up of. It’s exactly the reason why we have the Supreme Court – to further interpret all the various interpretations of the law.”
Iowa Fixer on May 29, 2012 at 12:19:37
“I cannot and will not subscribe to your narrow view of laws.
Bad laws get foisted off on us all the time. Your empty caveat of 'for whatever reason' ignores so much of American history of people standing up to abused authority, I despair for your conditioning.
So, you think people who disobeyed the Runaway Slave Act should have suffered consequences? So many laws are WRITTEN in gray, like the Patriot Act, to allow for subjective and over-reaching interpretations, that it takes a very very spineless response to say that laws are black and white, and 'tough' if you break the rules.
GUARANTEED, I could follow you for 24 hours, and you'd break a law. Ask your local cops.
But I'm responding to a 'tough' person who does no wrong.
Meh, wasting my time. I keep reading posts like yours, thankfully very few, and it's easy to see the problem with this country. Guess what. It's you.”
presdennis1 on May 29, 2012 at 08:41:42
“Law and people, who should we care for most UM hard to decide. This is such a simplistic and cold hearted way to look at it, SHE WAS AN HONORS STUDENT! She did her absolute best and with the burden upon her; to care for 2 siblings and hold down two jobs at that age, the girl needed help, not jail And she was jailed for missing school and going to school less is going to help her? she'll end up back in jail and most likely for a longer time. I am amazed that anyone could actually feel this way, but to each his or her own.you do have a right to how you feel.”
Don Clanton on May 29, 2012 at 08:25:49
“Lets all chip in and award you 100 points for compassionate post of the day.”
rbpgh on May 29, 2012 at 08:24:28
“If the law and its interpretation were black and white, then we would not need a judge or jury. A robot can hand out judgements.”
Bret Applegate on May 29, 2012 at 08:23:46
“LOL....seriously? The law is PRIMARILY a shade of grey. Black and white is the rare exception.”
Thaag Tidestalker on May 29, 2012 at 07:46:52
“If rubberstamping were the letter of the law, we wouldn't even need human judges--we could just have the Judg-0-Matic 9000 dispense fines automagically. Judges are there to judge. They are there to hear cases and assign punishment and/or mercy when appropriate. This judge was lazy, because her extenuating circumstances were not appropriate to be handled by truancy court, but by family court--as she was working to support herself and her two abandoned siblings as well as holding incredible grades in school.”
srthd98 on May 29, 2012 at 07:43:06
“Public school is not mandatory! Read the US Constitution. It's about the school losing money and the is all it's about.”
walkerhds on May 29, 2012 at 07:39:38
“wow... this is just so full of magic I don't know where to start.”
spotcheck on May 29, 2012 at 07:38:31
“Read the story - in this case, the law had a good deal of gray - in her situation, the school "may" refer her to the court - they were not required to do so. The judge had complete discretion in what to do about the situation - the night in jail was not some kind of mandatory minimum. They chose to punish her for attempting to deal with her situation instead of her parents for abandoning their responsibilities.”
“I live in South Africa where the legal drinking age is 18, so to me having to be 21 to have a drink seems like the most ridiculous thing ever. People seem to think that if you are 18 years old you are incapable or drinking responsibly and that every time they drink it's going to turn into some crazy rager! Drinking (when done in moderation and responsibly) is not dangerous. The more its a taboo thing, the more kids are going to try to do it, with bad consequences. The legal driving age in SA is also 18, and when I think of some 16 year old kid who has snuck a 6 pack of their parents beer driving around town I want to cringe!”
“What a load of rubbish. I 100% agree with his initial statement and can't believe he is getting reamed by the media and public over this. Saying people who fight and ultimately die for their country and beliefs are 'heroes' would mean that the Iraq soldiers are also heroes. What about German soldiers in WW2, soviet soldiers in the cold war, Vietnamese soldiers in Vietnam?”
Madbunny on May 29, 2012 at 11:04:31
“I can believe it.
It's exactly what I would expect of people who try to brand themselves as wrapped in a flag and packaged with a bible in hand.
The argument that the 'other side' would call their own soldiers heroes falls on deaf ears. If the discussions about torture weren't enough to remind you of that, then this will.”
bagelmart on May 29, 2012 at 10:57:00
“They are all heroes, to their respective sides. One man's hero is another man's villain.”
mabinog on May 29, 2012 at 10:54:59
“What about German soldiers in WW2, soviet soldiers in the cold war, Vietnamese soldiers in Vietnam?
of course they are, just not to us. are you really that obtuse? read some history.
People who choose or are drafted into the military and then live up to their obligations and duties when sent to fight by our politicians are acting heroically. The politicians may be incompetent or even evil but the people doing their duty are still displayed bravery in the face of hardship and danger.
The problem is that there are no "Heroes", there have always been and will continue to be people who act heroically. "Heroes" are ideological propaganda and people acting heroically are ordinary people who had to do extraordinary things. Some do heroic things that fairly mundane. Some do things in battle that astoundingly extraordinary. They do not become perfect upon being called "Heroes". They do not remain perfect beings for having acted heroically. Their lives can end tragically or they live out their as normal as anyone else.”
Michelle0809 on May 29, 2012 at 10:45:26
“They are hero's to their country. Instead of putting down the soldiers, put down the elected officials and not just the President, but congress who has to agree to war. Disagree with their choices and decisions but never the soldier. Congress represent you and me. The majority. We live in a Republic. If we do not like the decisions our elected officials make then we have a duty to vote so our voice can be heard and counted. The soldiers volunteer to defend our country and are willing to lay down their lives for you and me. The fact that they are willing to do so makes them a Hero. Not the "cause" they died for. Extrordinary acts of valor and heroisim are another level, but all who gave up their lives in defense of their country and fellow man are hero's.”
eevestigio on May 29, 2012 at 10:40:03
“They can be heroes to their own country.
These are my heroes. Sorry you don't appreciate those who are defending your right to feel that way.”
Clarence Digory on May 29, 2012 at 10:37:57
“Saying people who fight against us can not be heroes is a load of rubbish. I would hope that we could move past demonizing our enemies. We go to war not against the individual soldier but against the political regime.
Just as we the electorate are responsible for any unjust war we enter. It is not the service members carrying that policy out on the front line.”
EnnWhySea on May 29, 2012 at 10:36:48
“NVA/VC soldiers in Vietnam were defending their nation from a foreign invaders, I'd call them heroes. The others, acting in wars of aggression and profit, not so much.”
samedayrepo on May 29, 2012 at 10:36:23
“Thank our heros your not speaking German today cuz without them we all might be.”
Hunter3203 on May 29, 2012 at 10:32:08
“What about them? In their own countries they were in fact heroes.
He's getting reamed because he was wrong in his assessment and because of the timing of his remarks. The Memorial Day holiday is to commemorate those who have sacrificed for our country.”
BacSi on May 29, 2012 at 10:27:08
“"Iraq soldiers are also heroes. What about German soldiers in WW2, soviet soldiers in the cold war, Vietnamese soldiers in Vietnam? "
These are the people I had something in common with.
I had nothing in common with the REMF flag waver. Nor the pogue working in a safe clean office.
All those you mentioned did the same thing I did. We answered the call, rucked up, and went out hunting or to be hunted.
We lived outside the wire trying to kill other kids who most likely would have liked us if they had ever gotten to know us.
I respected that NVA or VC. We lived the same life in many respects doing the same tough job. And we both paid a great price for doing that job.
I have no respect for the uniformed Marine that dropped a heavy radio on their foot right after getting orders for VN.
A silly term misused by people that avoided doing what we ended up doing.”