“There is a Zionist claim on Palestine. It is one of several claims. To westerners it is the most important claim; not everyone sees it the western way.
There were times when the area had a Jewish majority and times when it had a "pagan" majority or a Christian majority or Moslem majority, etc.
The "newness" of Palestine's Arab population is a claim, not a fact.”
Sheila Ginsberg on Oct 1, 2013 at 21:19:57
“It is a historical fact-The moslem religion was created after the 7th century AD,They tried to rewrite the bible by claiming that Ishmail was the chosen one-they even have a holiday to celebrate when Ishmael was about to be sacrificed when the world knows it was Isaac.That effort to rewrite the history takes a lot of nerve. In any case the land was almost uninhabited, and definitely undeveloped.”
“This is how Mark Twain described Greece:
" We saw no ploughed fields, very few villages, no trees or grass or vegetation of any kind, scarcely, and hardly ever an isolated house. Greece is a bleak, unsmiling desert, without agriculture, manufactures, or commerce, apparently." (The Innocents Abroad, p. 203)
Should Greece not be a country?
Research Twain's trip and his writing. He visits Nablus writes extensivly about the small minority (the Samaritans) that interested him and writes nothing about the thousands of Moslems who did not interest him.
Palestine had an Arab majority for over a 1000 years: from before England and France were unified countries up until George W. Bush's toddler days Palestine was predominatly Arab.
There had always been a Jewish minority of sveral percent but with the immigration in the late
1800s the percentage grew. In 1918 when The British took over Palestine and began enforcing Zionism Arabs were approx. 90% of the population. The British explicitedly declared that this 90% of the population would not be allowed self-determination and an independent Palestine.”
Sheila Ginsberg on Sep 30, 2013 at 22:29:53
“Greece has no relevance. What is relevant is that the Jews have a preexisting history for thousands of years.Also that the number of Arabs was very low.Most came into the area after it began to be developed.”
HistoryBuffBU on Sep 29, 2013 at 19:18:24
“The British were keeping Jews from Europe out after 1939, sealing European Jewry to their deadly fate. They would not even take them in themselves, the world failed before. Jabotinsky said it best
"Our planet is no longer blessed with uninhabited islands. Take any oasis in any desert, it is already taken by the native who inhabits that place from time immemorial and rejects the coming of new settlers that will become a majority, or just come in great numbers. In short—if there is a homeless nation in the world, its very yearning for a homeland is immoral. The homeless must forever remain homeless; all the land in the universe has already been divided—that's it. These are the conclusions of "morality."”
The Palestinian Authority (and the Arab League) have repeatedly called for a two-state peace with Israel getting 78% of Palestine and a mutually agreed upon solution to the refugee issue. Palestine would have no real military and Israel would keep its military and its WMD.
Hamas in Gaza (and in exile) have said different things at different times.
Their position would have to be clarified in the negotiations. In a peace there would still be problems just like in South Africa, northern Ireland, etc.”
“If the Palestinians get the 22% of Palestine they are asking for and there is a signed agreement then yes there could be peace.
We can hope it will not be like 1953 when the Israeli army massacred civilians in the West Bank, or 1956 Gaza when the Israelis lined up civilians and machine-gunned them. We can hope that it will not be like 1956 when Israel conspired with European empires to attack Egypt or 1966 when Israel attacked villages in the West Bank.
Of course these Israeli attacks were presented as self-defence or retaliation. Prior Arab violence mentioned and prior Israeli violence ignored.”
robefd271 on Sep 24, 2013 at 10:42:10
PaulFromNYC on Sep 24, 2013 at 10:08:54
“You are referring to the Suez Crisis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suez_Crisis
I can't tell you who's fault it was (Britain, France, US, USSR, Egypt)
There was hundreds of attacks by Arabs on Israelis and Vice Versa
What kind of peace do Palestinians want? and what about Gaza Mahmoud Abbas has no authority there are they somehow part of the peace?”
HappyRick on Sep 24, 2013 at 06:33:38
“Hopfully, it will not be like the genocide that occurred in 627CE when Mohammad committed his first genocide, when he oversaw the decapitation of 600-900 Jewish men of the Qurashya tribe, the leading tribe in the city of Yathrib.
He & his holy henchmen spent a leisurely afternoon in the Yathrib chopping off the heads of 600-900 Jewish men in front of their wives, mothers, daughters & young sons.
When finished, Moe & his thugs raped the women & children. They sold the
ones that did not please into slavery to buy more weapons. They also stole the Jews property and wealth to fund future wars. They also renamed the JEWISH city of Yathrib, Medinat al-Nabi: the city of the Prophet, which is known today as Medina.
Attacks by Muslims have continued unabated for 1400 years”
“We weren't acting morally then and we're not acting morally now.
If Syria were an enemy of our enemies and a acomplice to our friends the Syrian children would get as little attention as the all the other children who grow cold on the floor.”
“Both the Israeli and Saudi governments want Iran's allies neutered so that Iran can be intimidated or attacked.
The Gulf monarchs might not have much military power but they have money. We shouldn't discount the personal, financial ties between them and US leadership.
Israeli lobbying for an attack on Syria is open and energetic. Again, there are personal ties.”
blomeup2day on Sep 6, 2013 at 17:58:42
“Ok I see why Israel wants Iran weakened, but not the Saudis. Saudi makes more money by having a stronger Iranian threat. This pumps up the price of oil and makes the Saudis the lead producer of oil to calm international markets. Iran poses no threat to Saudi Arabia, they have their boogeyman in Israel and the US. ”
“Can you see any of those parks driving on Rosecrans or El Segundo? How about Slauson or Gage? Willow or Anaheim?
The majority of people in LA county live far away from wealthy playgrounds in Pacific Pallisades and Malibu.”
palisadeshomme310 on Sep 6, 2013 at 13:27:49
“technically you can see them, but no, they're not very close”
“"Here are 13 things that the rest of the country can learn from LA about living well:"
Think for a moment before you self-affirm.
Of the 13 things you list, 10 exist in many, if not most, major US cities: gerdens, parks, bikes, pedestrians, etc.
LA probably is more intolerant of smoking, that's true.
Alternative medicine? Other cities prefer science.
Great outdoors? Some cities have it some don't.”
“People and countries dealt with Hitler prior to WW2: the Olympics, celebrities, business and finance,etc.,etc.
When Hitler dismembered Czechoslovakia, Poland and Hungary marched in alongside him.
The world is a complicated place.
Weapons have been used against innocent children by both sides in Syria. Children scream and cry on both sides; we just see some of the videos.
Just because a politician says something happened doesn't mean it did. Foreign Ministers are paid to lie, that's their job.
Let's debate and investigate. When we know more we can decide.”
“For our rulers the best option would've been a Syrian bourgeois democracy that does what it's told. The second best: a bourgeois dictatorship-- religious OK-- that does what it's told. If those options aren't possible then neuter the place.
A limited strike, a destruction of Syrian government capabilities keeps the war going; that's the goal. Stalemate. As long as "they" are killing themselves more important countries can do what they want.
The world is filled with horrible governments, it's the independent ones that get attacked.”
“November, 1918. British Commander in Jerusalem in a dispatch to the Foreign Office:
"...a deputation of all Christian and Moslem sects headed by the Mayor marched singing
to these Headquarters...had come to protest against the assumption that Palestine was
to be handed over to any one of the three religions practiced by it's inhabitants...."
Palestinian petitions addressed to the Allies in 1918/19
"The native Jews of Palestine have been and still are our brethern in pleasure and sorrow."
British Military Governor, Jaffa District. 1918:
"What the Arabs fear is not the Jews in Palestine but the Jews who are coming to Palestine."”
Sam Bark on Jun 29, 2013 at 02:28:04
“miquon - Of course, since these brave Jews most likely will not succumb to the Arab-Muslims Dhimmi rule and the Muslims will lose their Jyzia....
Google these terms and learn the truth of Arabs' hospitality”
Trollstein on Jun 28, 2013 at 20:19:19
“More complex than you would portray. The street-level Arabs of the Jerusalem area (prior to WW1) were traditionally NOT adversary to the Hebrews. However, this groups was more sophisticated then the average Arab peasant of the era. Those Arabs seem to have no fear of other Arabs joining them and their ranks. Obviously, the Hebrews disliked that idea at least as much as the local Arabs disliked the idea of more Jews. No one wishes to see their numerical ethnic/religious majority become a minority. That is human nature 101. If that is the only criteria in your mind then you will never accept a Jewish majority nation anywhere in the Mid East because it has obviously been built as a intentional refuge community, to facilitate one group's security. On the other hand, back in 1917-1918 things were done differently. Populations were still being moved around with noteworthy regularity and the League of Nations even oversaw at least one such forced migration. The emphasis was not on individual liberty but more so centered around what is best for society, et al.”
“The journalist in the video does not say that the killing was staged. The journalist says that the Israelis say the killing was staged. People involved dispute the Israeli claim. The journalist says that the images of the shooting remain controversial and that the Israeli claim is not the last word.”
“The colonial empires used religious consevatives against nationalists. In Mandate Palestine the Zionists used religious consevatives against nationalists. The US in Afghanistan used religious conservatives. The list goes on and on. Saudi Arabia is relgious and anti-Jewish; Saudi Arabia causes Israel far less trouble than secular nationalists have. The US elite would probably prefer conservative governments that are elected and legitimate but ultimately "human rights" and "humanitarian concerns" are secondary to questions of power. ”
danoosh on Jun 18, 2013 at 20:50:05
You are comparing the pragmatic view of life to what is being said, and up to a point, you are quite right. As sad as it may be Saudi human rights. And women-rights are contrary to what the United States supports.
Saudi oil, and its contribution to the economies of the West is tantamount to Roosevelt's big stick, only it is economic.
You said that Saudi Arabia is anti-Jewish, you made an error, all Islam is anti-Jewish, all you do is read the Quran, and you can tell.
Sadly, as you said, greed trumps morality.
“How did the Arab Spring end up? A "pro-western" regime in Libya allied to conservative Gulf states. A conservative government in Egypt "keeping its commitments to Israel and the US".
No real change in Yemen, continued dictatorship in Bahrain.
The US and the west and the Gulf states have done a good job corralling the "revolution" and keeping it under control. Sharia law is no problem. Saudi Arabia has had sharia law all the decades it's been a US ally. As long as the oil and money flows who cares.
It's about power and wealth and empire. It's not a conspiracy it's right out in the open.
Qatar and Jordan arm the Syrian rebels, the US media praises them.
Of course there is a possibility of blowback but freedom isn't free.”
danoosh on Jun 18, 2013 at 19:23:06
Libya, "pro-western," you say; remember Benghazi? Egypt ruled by the "Islamic Brotherhood," and will sooner or later drop Israeli commitments, The "Brotherhood 'manifesto'" does not allow for communicating, let alone have agreements, with Jews. The Gulf allies are living in a way totally contrary to what the United States consider acceptable human rights, but the money, oil and greed, made the US acts irresponsibly by ignoring the fact that human-rights are important to the US and its allies.”
“"Things must change so that things remain the same."
For economic and demographic reasons the Arab world was changing, the US is in an alliance with conservative religious forces to try to manage that change. Egypt's old government was servile towards the US and Israel, Egypt's new government is servile towards the US and Israel.
I ssume that the good people in Washington would prefer an elected government like in Turkey but if it must be an autocracy like Bahrain or a tribal militia like Libya so be it. The important thing is maintaining the elites and the empire.”
“Lord Balfour: "‘For in Palestine we do not propose even to go through the form of consulting the wishes of the present inhabitants of the country …the Four Great Powers are committed to Zionism. And Zionism, be it right or wrong, good or bad, is rooted in age-long traditions, in present needs, in future hopes, of far profounder import than the desires or prejudices of the 700,000 Arabs who now inhabit that ancient land …"”
“Arabs were around 68% of the population, Jews around 32%. After decades of immigration the Jewish community owned about 10% of the land; with partition they were given soverignty over more than half of Palestine. The land they controlled was expanded 5 fold.
The Palestinians were given no vote on this.”
“Apologies to fellow students of history. In my earlier post I linked to a NYT article that discusses a centuries old Jewish massacre of Christians. I lazily didn't re-read the articla and forgot that in the end the NYT discounts the history. British scholars and to their credit Israeli scholars don't discount it:
But one expert at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, who asked not to be named, said: “He [the king] did massacre many Christians. The volume of knowledge on the subject is growing. The tribe did convert at the end of the fourth century and Judaism was considered missionary in those days. It’s a sensitive matter from a Jewish point of view.””
“"NAJRAN, Saudi Arabia — Among the ruins on the edge of this ancient oasis city are deep trenches littered with bones. That, local people say, is all that remains of one of the great atrocities of antiquity, when thousands of Christians were herded into pits here and burned to death by a Jewish tyrant after they refused to renounce their faith. " The New York Times
“This is how Twain described Greece: "From Athens all through the islands of the Grecian Archipelago, we saw little but forbidden sea-walls and barren hills, sometimes surmounted by three or four graceful columns of some ancient temples, lonely and deserted---a fitting symbol of desolation that has come upon all Greece in these latter ages. We saw no ploughed fields, very few villages, no trees or grass or vegetation of any kind, scarcely, and hardly ever an isolated house. Greece is a bleak, unsmiling desert, without agriculture, manufactures, or commerce, apparently."
Twain like many westerners was dissapointed that Greece was hot filled with Homer's heroes and that Palestine was not the biblical land of milk and honey.
Twain went to Nablus and describes in detail the tiny Samaritan community he found fascinating. The thousands of Moslems living there? He doesn't mention them.
BTW there are other parts of Twain's description of Palestine where he praises the rich agriculture.”
Somewhereinthemiddle149 on Jun 7, 2013 at 08:25:06
“Yes, certainly some Muslims were living in Palestine -- but not to the extent that the opposition to Israel would have people believe. ”
“Were the Palestinians offered a fair deal? They were a 2/3 majority and they were told they would have no say in what would happen. A minority (mostly recently arrived) would be given most of Palestine.”
Somewhereinthemiddle149 on Jun 6, 2013 at 08:38:52
“I don't think that this is true, actually. I will have to look into this. But it is my understanding that, at the time, there was an attempt made for a fair deal as possible. ”
AJ Raalte on Jun 6, 2013 at 08:32:44
“Many, if not most, "Palestinian" Arabs were also recently arrived West of the Jordan. THAT's why they formed 2/3 of the population.”