“I would rather have someone who hasn't read the bill vote against it, than to have someone not read it and vote for it.
Anyway, it's interesting that it's difficult to get ANY dems to admit they haven't read it. How could any of these guys consider themselves competent if they don't read what they sign? Just like on the stimulus, how can they justify spending our money without reading before they sign? Why is it too much to ask?”
mjtaylor22 on Aug 13, 2009 at 16:28:10
“but isn't that the same darn thing, your rep could vote against policies that benefit you and your neighbors, and on top of that they added nothing to the debate in favor of your district”
“There are no polls that I'm aware of that say Americans don't want health care reform.
Although in a Quinnipiac University Poll Aug 5th American voters, by a 55 - 35 percent margin, are more worried that Congress will spend too much money and add to the deficit than it will not act to overhaul the health care
And in the same poll, By a 72 - 21 percent margin, voters do not believe that President Barack Obama will keep his promise to overhaul the health care system without adding to the deficit.
Also, voters disapprove 52 - 39 percent of the way President Obama is handling health care.
Voters also oppose 68 - 26 percent requiring people to have health insurance or pay a fine and oppose 68 - 27 percent taxing employees for health care benefits from employers.
Plus, many voters do not appear to believe that the US health care system has major problems. Only 20 percent said health care is “in a state of crisis,” according to the Gallup survey
Truth is there isn't much of a mandate from the people...certainly not for a government run system. That's why Obama wants things to move so quickly. As things slow down it is less likely that anything he wants passes.”
“Right, you mean all those people who came to this country legally. Like my grandparents did.
They didn't jump a fence, have a baby, and then suck off our welfare and medical systems.
There are ways to come here legally. It dose take some time, but it should. This is the greatest country in the world. It is a privilege to live here, so if it takes some time and effort to become a citizen I'm all for it!”
“She also thinks it's un-American to want to enforce our immigration laws.
So, enforcing our laws is un-American, and now speaking our minds is ALSO un-American.
I don't think she knows a whole lot about being an American”
PWM on Aug 10, 2009 at 12:29:12
“Reagan didn't enforce them at all. Reagan started the process of allowing illegals to become legal and not dealing with their breaking laws. Reagan gave citizenship to 4 million people, rewarding them for breaking the law.”
dc2nm on Aug 10, 2009 at 12:16:18
“I don't think you know a whole lot of being American (guess you've never been to the Statue of Liberty).”
“I'm not aware of any groups that don't look to other like minded groups in one way or another.
We peacfully protest, and attempt to ask our elected officials questions, like why are they not willing to submit to themselves to this "health care". These are legitamite questions. They refuse to meet with anyone who disagrees with them, so this is often the only forum.
Why was it OK for puppet groups like ACORN to tawnt voters? Why was it OK for the code pink people to be disruptive in their protests?
Buy the way, our biggest focus in West Michigan is on our local Republican law makers.”
“First off, you should know the new propaganda. Even the President is now using the number "46 million". of course he is no longer using the term Americans. His underlings are still referring to this number as Americans.
Of the 46 million, 9.1 million earn $75,000 or more a year, 11 million declined coverage from their employers, also there are many who are young, single and healthy, plus a growing number who rely on alternative and faith-based therapies. Of course you also have 10 million foreigners included. All of this according to the Census Bureau.
These "foreigners" where never asked if they where legally in the U.S. So even our "official" numbers are skewed by those who break our laws to get into this country.
The funny part of all of this is by Obama's own numbers, his plan would cover 97% of Americans....this would still leave around 9 million Americans, plus the 10 million admitted foreigners, plus 20 million illegals. He better help them out, or they may never vote for him after ACORN registers them.
One jacked up part is the young people who currently choose not to have insurance will be forced to purchase it, most won't use it, thus they will be paying for other peoples insurance. Great job transferring middle class wealth!!!!”
“I am a member of The West Michigan Tea Party. We go to town hall meetings, and put on events to speak out against big government and higher taxes. We are not sponsored by anyone. We go garage sales and other fund raisers to raise funds.
Is it just easier to marginalize us in this way, rather than realize that there are Americans who believe government is not the answer?”
hp blogger Josh Dorner on Aug 9, 2009 at 22:59:26
“Nobody denies that there are a lot of angry people out there. We are just trying to highlight who is behind the curtain doing the meta-organizing, pulling the strings, and writing the checks.
For starters, I would refer you back to the rather slick Tea Party Patriots website (not exactly DIY quality), which lists Newt's American Solutions and FreedomWorks as major supporters. The two organizations themselves are merely products of Washington lobbyists and monied corporate special interests.
I see a link from that homepage to your local West Michigan Tea Party. So tell me again how this is all completely organic and not being orchestrated by corporate interests and their national astroturf machine?
“When are you going to develop enough perspective to understand that this is not just about you? It is about the 47 million Americans who do not have any health care, because of the existence of a rapacious private health insurance cartel that ought never to have come into existene. It is about the millions more who are undersinsured, with the result that underinsurance and uninsurance is the #1 cause of bankruptcy in America. It is about the $400 billion a year http://www.pnhp.org we could save if we eliminated the private health insurance cartel--enough to insure all of the uninsured, and enough to lower the cost of health care to our economy by more than 15%.
You say you don't want higher taxes? You want to save tax dollars? Then why do you oppose Americans saving $400 billion a year by getting rid of a zero-value added, corrupt plutocratic cartel whose every dollar in marketing, excess corporate executive remuneration, and PROFIT is a dollar taken away from healthcare Americans need?
Why are you fighting to preserve $400 billion a year in plutocratic graft and to make health care more expensive for millions of Americans? Why are you fighting to destroy a public option, or make it more expensive both to individuals and to taxpayers if we do have one?
You're fighting to increase the profits of a parasitic cartel that has marginalized 47 million people and kills 22,000 Americans a year. Heckofajob, rayanthony!”
pinkibus on Aug 9, 2009 at 02:12:45
“rayanthony I believe you. I just have to ask you why you let government run the police, the military, regulate the production of food and so on and you have trouble with the government running health care. I mean youpaid George Bush and Wolfowitz etc. and trusted him and he never had to have a garage sale to raise funds. He just enlisted corporate interests and lied and lied and lied. If you don't want to participate in a government run health care system don't. You can choose. Let others choose. Babies who die under the present system just don't have a choice do they. And you do know that every other developed county has universal health care don't you. And they live longer and they are really just as happy, in fact happier, than Americans. Just for once consider that government does have problemsbut they aren't anything like corporate problems. I mean government didn't lie about weapons in Iraq. government didn't steal the Enron did or Wall street.”
edwarvir on Aug 8, 2009 at 20:49:49
“I bet you do.”
Nonpartay on Aug 8, 2009 at 18:46:44
“Well, I was a Republican in my youth, and we never did these despicable things. Although I do recall some Nazis crashing a meeting of the Teenage Republicans I was at and trying to take over. I never quite did make it back to that organization after that. But with all the lies, nastiness, obvious racism, negativity, incitement to violence, fear stoking, etc. that is being done by right-wing radio and FN, why would anyone want to be involved in such a movement? What is it you want for the country? Just for everyone to suffer and be miserable? Seems like that's what those on the right are. I don't understand the appeal. You say you want small government, but whenever a Republican has ever been in office, they did just the opposite and grew government incredibly larger. They talk a good talk but walk something completely different. It should be obvious to you that business interests control the Republican message, fund Republican lawmakers, and are now ginning up support for disruptions of the democratic process at the town hall meetings. Encouraging people to shout, rant, prevent anyone else from exercising their free speech, well, that's just un-American and should be seen as such by any normal person. So, what's the appeal? I'm curious. I got over my conservativism almost 50 years ago, never having been one to think I got mine so screw everyone else. What is keeping you?”
mlaiuppa on Aug 8, 2009 at 16:32:59
“And no one sends you a list of Democratic Town Halls to attend, gives you talking points or helpful hints as to how to disrupt and take over a meeting. Really?
You're being manipulated and you don't even know it. The entire tea party movement was organized by lobbyists for big corporations. You don't even know you're a puppet.”
“The Dutch "model" isn't even a model yet. It's only been around for three years! They are in the early stages where insurance companies are loosing money to buy customers. They are already starting to buy each other, eventually their will only be a couple options, so they can collectively raise the rates.
The cast is also different due to less of the elderly worry about health care. Euthanasia is an acceptable cultural option in Holland, and avoidance of medications and treatment is common. Their elder population is lower.
The requirement to have insurance has little or nothing to do with the cost. In fact, in the long run, it may cause it to increase.
Are you really from the Netherlands? Because you don't seem to now a whole lot about the system.”
Rimerez on Aug 8, 2009 at 14:07:25
“Yes I born here and lived 30 years in the USA.
Your idiotic 'euthanasia is rampant is pure BS. It is acceptable but many doctors won't do it and those who do. takes quite a while before they get the okay.
My grandmother had it at age 94 ...had a huge party for all of us before she did it.
“Leviticus 18:22 " You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination."
Romans 1:26 "....men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due."”
mercury613 on Mar 2, 2009 at 16:07:19
“So I guess lesbians are off the hook.”
RainbowPhoenix on Mar 2, 2009 at 15:22:23
“You didn't use the whole quote.
It reads: "Thou shalt not lie with a man as with a woman. It is an abomination. Their blood is upon them. They will surely be put to death."”
anotherone1 on Mar 2, 2009 at 15:13:35
“I wonder if Rayanthony knows the difference between not doing something yourself based on your religious beliefs and acting to keep other people from their own freedom. Does the Bible say somewhere to fight your neighbor to keep them from offending God or man? Quote it. Otherwise I think you are taking a teaching and thinking you’re the teacher or the protector of God. I think that might be where the Taliban go wrong too. Vanity of vanities all is vanity.”
allison77 on Mar 2, 2009 at 13:52:16
“Matthew 8:5-13 and Luke 7:1-10.
To help you out as I'm certain you're only selectively reading the Bible, a discussion on the word "pais" -
The Greek word used in Matthew’s account to refer to the servant of the centurion is pais. In the language of the time, pais had three possible meanings depending upon the context in which it was used. It could mean “son or boy;” it could mean “servant,” or it could mean a particular type of servant — one who was “his master’s male lover.”
“Yes, we know. And a slave shall obey his master and disobedient children shall be stoned and the divorced shall be cast out of the church and women shall bow down before their husbands etc. etc. If you're going to rely on the Bible for authority isn't it rather blasphemous to pick and choose? Aren't you in effect saying to God that you like some of his admonitions better than others? Sounds like sin to me.”
bsc on Mar 2, 2009 at 12:43:58
“ok and how does this apply to people who do not believe in your psycho religion?”
mjb5406 on Mar 2, 2009 at 12:23:54
“And that applies to people marrying civilly HOW?
And, if you can tell me truthfully, and with 100% certainty, that the translation you're quoting is the true word of God and not something a man wrote, then you're better than most religious scholars.”
rainey on Mar 2, 2009 at 12:16:20
“You know, you might as well quote from "The Lord of the Rings" because the bible is NOT a legal document. I mean you *know* that, right?”
slarabee on Mar 2, 2009 at 12:15:21
“That tears it. No more bibles in my house or I will tear out the pages and use them for TP.”
Politicallyinterested on Mar 2, 2009 at 12:09:45
“In the original languages such quotes tend to read differently.”
Burner on Mar 2, 2009 at 12:06:38
“Quoted from your silly book, not mine.”
Biff Stiffley on Mar 2, 2009 at 11:59:34
“You don't really want to get into a scripture-quoting war, do you? There are SO many verses in the bible that no longer apply today that it is laughable.”
complice on Mar 2, 2009 at 11:58:02
“Irrelevant to the discussion as the topic is CIVIL MARRIAGE, not, I repeat, NOT religious marriage. I'm sorry that you have trouble seeing the distinction, but judging from your other posts, it's clear that logic and nuance aren't your strong suit.
Also, if you're going to start quoting levitican law as a means for justifying your bigotry, you at least ought to be a little more consistent. Would it be safe to assume that you also refrain from eating shellfish, wearing mixed-fiber garments, and in the event that your children should speak out of turn or willfully disobey, you see to it that they're promptly put to death?
Oh, that's right, it's just more of the same hypocritcal, caffeteria-style "Christianity" you and your "pro-family" ilk have become so famous for.”
RainbowPhoenix on Mar 2, 2009 at 11:54:31
“You left out the last part of leviticus 18:22 "their blood is upon them. They will surely be put to death."
Leviticus also says that it is an abomanation to eat shelfish, wear clothes of more than one cloth, plant more than one type of seed in the same field, and touch the skin of a dead pig.”
tibetanterrier on Mar 2, 2009 at 11:54:28
“ROTFLMAO. I might offer you a coin if you behave”