Nov 17, 2013 at 22:19:47
“Where do you get these ridiculous ideas? Teachers are very concerned about the food that is being served in schools and advocating for the students.
Please stop deciding who I am and what I think. You have no clue. And teachers are complaining because they have been made scapegoats and forced to "teach" in ways that they know are not in the students' best interests - and then blamed for its failure. Enough said. The stress became so great that I retired. My students cried.”
foresure6379 on Nov 18, 2013 at 07:25:55
This will be my last communication to you. First, though, I want to express my appreciation of you presenting the thinking of teachers.
1. Unless you are an graduate of Misery Gulch Teachers's Normal School, you may not comment of the total failure of the American education system.
"You have no clue".
2. Never argue with facts, just personally attack the person who has dared to criticise the failure of the U.S. education system.
"You have no clue".
3. "And teachers are complaining because they have been made scapegoats and forced to "teach" in ways that they know are not in the students' best interests".
Nice, nice example. Its clear from the history of what teachers have been complaining about is a) more money for teachers. b) no evaluation of teachers, c) more money for teachers.
All in all, it was nice to learn that once a teacher reaches pension age, she can look to her students to provide her emotional support when she retires.
Actually, that was one I missed. I did not realize it was an honor for a teacher to inflict emotional distress on their students.”
Nov 15, 2013 at 20:10:32
“Sorry to contradict you, but I do know which students learned and which were bored. I was there. I really don't understand why you are trying to be so insulting. I am responding to your comments with respect.
Yes, it's true that in other countries they have bilingual and trilingual citizens. (There are many in the U.S. as well.) There are very different conditions. First of all, they may be starting school or immersed in a second language from early childhood. Second, most other countries are different from the US in that if they travel the distance that to us would be to another state, they go to another country with a different language.
I think you may be forgetting that most students who are in ESL are not beginning in Kindergarten,. In fact, many come in upper grades.”
foresure6379 on Nov 16, 2013 at 02:49:27
It is nothing personal Your responses have been excellent, and I suspect you do get results.
My tone is set by your position, which appears to be universal in the Education Industry that everything is pretty much fine, and that any real changes are quite, quite impossible. And that the notion of actually holding teachers responsible for their pay check in any rational fashion is an insult to teachers, and is anyway, quite impossible.
That plain and simple incompetency should never even be discussed as grounds for dismissal.
I have no doubt you are one of the true teachers who has not yet succumbed to the "victim" posture of the great majority of teachers who post on this site.
The simplest way I can explain this.
a) Children will not eat food that is plain disgusting, and causes shame and embarrassment
b) Children with low blood sugar tend to be difficult to teach.
c) Teachers maintain that they have no, absolutely no interest, power, intent, or legitimate moral authority to advocate for nutritious breakfasts and lunches that children will eat. The idea of preparing low cost meals for children is like, fair evaluation of teachers, beyond the scope of all in the Education Industry, and probably beyond human ability.”
“I'm just saying that having been a student does not mean that you know anything about how to teach. I think everyone in society is a stakeholder when it comes to education, and everyone should be concerned when non-educators are setting policy, judging educators and telling educators how to teach. I think everyone should also be concerned about the effects of poverty on education.”
Magrum Yuff on Nov 13, 2013 at 15:04:14
“Students know the difference between a good teacher and an ineffective teacher -- they certainly do know something about teaching.”
Nov 13, 2013 at 09:13:40
“Please read my posting. It is full of facts, not theories. My beginning was not meant to insult, but to give you a context to relate to ESL students' situation.
I taught HIGH SCHOOL. My students were already in or post-puberty.
You are making assumptions about the techniques I used. I didn't lecture them or spend a class period in drills. I know children learn by playing - even post-puberty. Unfortunately, reformers no longer allow it. I totally agree with you about Sesame Street, and other educational TV programs. Do you think they show that to them in regular high school English classes? Immersion in a language is very helpful, if you have a population that does not speak their language available. It doesn't work if everyone around them speaks their language, as is the case for most Hispanic students. By the way, I don't speak Spanish, and the only language used in my classroom was English. But one teacher who speaks English is not immersion. It is not fair to drop high school students into mainstream classes with their graduation and high-stakes standardized testing at risk. They need to learn content-area subjects while they are learning English.
My students learned to speak, read, write and understand spoken English after taking ESL. You are making a lot of false assumptions. Some even got in the 80s and 90s on the NYS Comprehensive English Regents Examination.”
foresure6379 on Nov 15, 2013 at 02:43:09
You may have contributed to their learning ot speak, read and understand Engish, or you may have bored them to death, and retarded their learning.
Of course one will never know.
The fact is that many, many countries have bi and tri lingual citizens without the torture and expense that the U.S. goes through.
A Kenyan who finishes eight grade is usually tri-lingual. His own language, Swahili and English.”
Nov 12, 2013 at 23:52:49
“And you know this how? How long did it take you to learn a second language in school? Could you have gone to a high-school level literature class in France without help learning French first? Especially if everyone in your neighborhood spoke English to you?
I spent 22 years teaching school ESL in an inner city high school. Not only was I trying to teach communicative and academic English, but I was also teaching 1-12 skills because of gaps in the education of many the students, who had not had the opportunity to attend much school in their county of origin. I was teaching them reading and literary analysis, geography, history, current events, science... It goes on and on. And unlike most of the excellent teachers who were teaching these subjects in English, I was able to explain the difference in meaning between the two future tenses and when to use commas and semicolons, for example.
I was VERY concerned with my students' future opportunities - and I've had students return from college to tell me how I had changed their lives.
By the way, you need a comma or "and" after "fanned." You need a hyphen in "well-stated" and "pseudo-specialty." You need a question mark at the end of your question. You could learn a lot from ESL teachers.”
foresure6379 on Nov 13, 2013 at 06:08:51
Like a well trained teacher, you start with a personal insult, especially nice is your "school marm" behavior of playing the proofreader, rather than mention any facts.
Now I do appreciate that it is very hurtful for you to be told that the notion that language learning, including a second an third language, is among children in a natural phenomenon all over the world.
It usually takes place before puberty. After puberty it appears that the brain is much less able to learn new sound systems.
[by the way, sorry for the word 'puberty', such a word is seldom used by teachers to understand their students]
Now, I will give you students probably learned the finer points of English grammar, and remained totally incapable of speaking or understanding much English.
Your failure will be a great boon to push for more "research" in more arcane and useless means of educating more ESL teachers.
Tip: Children learn by playing. They will play with sounds and words.
But really this works too fast. You need to set a few dozen students in one room, and lecture them on the language. Give them drills to recite. Make up absurd dialogs.
Never submerse them in he language with native speakers, and God forbid show them cartoons or give them games in English.
Don't dream of showing them Sesame Street or the Lion King.”
“Right, and I've been a passenger on an airplane, so now I know how to fly it, right? Being a teacher is very different from being a student. Working to educate 175 students daily is different from working to educate yourself with the help of 8 teachers.”
Magrum Yuff on Nov 13, 2013 at 00:54:13
“Airlines constantly solicit input from all the stakeholders in the enterprise, and the passengers are among those stakeholders. So are shareholders. So are the residents who live in the flight path.
Perhaps you are engaging in all-or-nothing thinking here, or perhaps you think I am. I am not suggesting the these stakeholders should be the only arbiters of educational and pedantic standards, but that they should be among them.”
“Myth. Unions have always been the greatest advocates for the students, negotiating for classroom conditions, supplies and class size limits, etc. They offer staff development workshops, counseling, mentoring, et al.”
ABron on Nov 13, 2013 at 11:05:05
“And in protecting teachers' jobs whether the teachers are good or bad.”
“That is a myth. I graduated from Hunter College High School (look it up). The staff at the high school where I taught for 23 years included teachers with Doctorates - and of course, we ALL had Masters Degrees (except Teach for America temporary staff). It included published authors, playwrights, medical doctors, and I could go on and on. It had a stable staff which included many people who had been teaching for 15 to 30+ years. We were one of the top 100 high schools in the US, according to Time Magazine, until the reformers "reformed" us. It took them 12 years to reduce us to an "F" on the NYC school report card, but then, they had worked really hard to achieve that. We were a successful LARGE school, after all, and they just couldn't have that.”
“I hope everyone can now clearly see just how important education is in the USA. Let me put that another way: Education is now clearly only for the rich, which is just fine with those who want to keep the populace ignorant so that they will be easy to fool and thus vote against their own interests.”
“Right. And that was the public option that the GOP refused to allow in the bill. Why are they so opposed to the health care law? Because they are going to lose their own wonderful, special insurance and go into exchanges with everyone else.”
LTTR136 on Jun 21, 2013 at 13:10:02
“I had to jump through a hoop to reply because I wasn't given a working link so I hope you get this.
Many of the groups that were so in favor or Obama Care at first are trying to avoid being included in it now. Among those are the members of the house and senate, their staffs, the unions, and others, as well as some states. If it's so great, why do they now want out? Because, after they finally read the bill, they found out it was not going to be such a good thing for them. The American people will have to eat it, but they will not if they can possibly avoided being included.”
“The problem is that teachers like myself are being told by the system that everything we've done up to now has been worthless, that our professional knowledge and experience is worth nothing, and that we need to be experts at new across-the board techniques as soon as yesterday with little or no professional development. We are blamed for the "failure" (according to data) of "reformers'"techniques that we objected to because we knew they would not serve our students well. In many cases we are being evaluated by people who have never taught and have no clue and don't care about the challenges or problems that our students bring with them. Furthermore, we haven't received a curriculum or textbook aligned to the Common Core. Basically we are "writing the textbook" ourselves as we go along in addition to all the other work we do, which is extremely time consuming and stressful. And don't forget to put student work on the wall! If it's not there, we must not be teaching. No wonder morale is low!”
Allthosewhowander on Feb 28, 2013 at 16:59:35
“Don't forget the propaganda and rhetoric that tells the masses that we are failures, greedy, unintelligent, etc. Remember that we are responsible for the dysfuntion of the system and society. We are culpable for the conditions our students face in their, respective, environments outside of the classroom. The uninformed are given an easy scapegoat. It is a lazy cop out accepted by many who do not hold themselves accountable for their own contributions to the quality of education.”
“I guess the hullabaloo about all the terrible teachers selfishly harming our children was off track. It turns out that teachers aren't the problem after all. But we knew that.”
eceresa on Feb 8, 2013 at 19:50:51
“Depends, of course, on how you slant the facts. Generally, I think teachers are more than adequate to the job. But I'd lay money that a lot of the slanting on this one will go toward, "See? We need a NEW new evaluation system, since we all know that teachers are horrible and this still isn't producing that result."”
“What planet are you on? Talk about second-guessing!”
RTGerdes on Aug 11, 2012 at 06:46:54
“That is not second-guessing. This is the path of the Democratic Party in the United States. All you have to do is read a few of the posts here of HuffPost to learn how deeply ingrained the thinking of Socialism has gone. It is very dangerous and you people completely ignore it.”
“I seem to remember Obama's policies being obstructed by the Republican members of the House. I seem to remember that his jobs bill was not passed. Which of Obama's policies to create jobs are they talking about? The ones they stopped?”
“Why is no one mentioning that the skyrocketing cost of education is the skyrocketing cost of insurance premiums for the personnel? And the skyrocketing cost of textbooks? And the skyrocketing cost of hiring "consultants"? All that money goes directly to big corporations, not to teachers' salaries.”
mochaview on Jul 26, 2012 at 17:22:44
“Exactly. The publishing companies have been having a field's day with textbook prices, and the consultants,etc. is information and their selection is carried out behind closed doors, isn't transparent, and most of the parents who need the most help are so bogged down with simply trying to survive and need a place to turn to for information.”
“In my school, they serve only low-fat milk. Many of our students live below the poverty level and do not get the kinds of foods that have been suggested, in the comments I read, as alternatives. Many do not even get milk at home; soda is cheaper. They need the milk they get at school. For them there is no alternative.”
jhdteacher on Jul 26, 2012 at 01:30:10
“the point of the article (read it) is milk is not necessary”
“You turn 90, stop driving, your license expires and a trip to the DMV, waiting on line, etc. is more than your quickly-tiring body can handle. Like my 95-year-old mother who is sharp in the mind but has much difficulty walking more than a block or standing for more than a few minutes.”