iPhone app iPad app Android phone app Android tablet app More

Featuring fresh takes and real-time analysis from HuffPost's signature lineup of contributors
Steve Kirsch

Steve Kirsch

Posted: June 27, 2009 07:28 PM

Climate Bill Ignores Our Biggest Clean Energy Source

What's Your Reaction:

Do you think our country's energy policy is in good hands now that the American Clean Energy and Security (ACES) climate bill has passed the House? I'm very worried and I think you should be too. Experts fret about balancing energy, environment, and the economy. But there is a way to have all three at the same time if we are willing to take a fresh look at an old technology. And that great solution is nowhere to be found in the ACES bill.

First, let's start by assuming science of global warming is correct. We'll see later that we'd want to do exactly the same thing even if we didn't believe in global warming at all.

To stop global warming, we must virtually eliminate the use of coal worldwide

Dr. James Hansen, one of our nation's leading experts on global warming, is very clear about the necessary attributes of any solution: we must stop building new coal plants immediately and start retiring existing coal plants worldwide. If we cannot virtually eliminate coal worldwide within a couple of decades, then the sum total of all of our other efforts to reduce our carbon footprint will be about as effective as rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

The "worldwide" requirement is critical. The best way, and for all practical purposes, probably the only way, to get other countries to abandon coal is to give them a seemingly magical new technology that is lower cost than coal, with the same 24x7 baseline power reliability, but without the CO2 emissions. Existing coal plants could be "upgraded" simply by replacing the "burner" with a the new technology.

We invented a superior power generation technology in 1974, but killed it for political reasons in 1994

The good news is we have such a magical power technology. The big surprise is that it isn't new. It's old. It is a fast nuclear reactor known as the Integral Fast Reactor (IFR) that was developed by a team of hundreds of scientists working for more than 20 years at our top government national laboratory for nuclear energy (Argonne National Laboratory, at its branches in Illinois and Idaho).

The bad news is that the IFR development was abruptly canceled in its final stages in 1994. A decision was made in the early weeks of the Clinton administration by people who formerly worked for the oil and natural gas industry to cancel the project. The three reasons publicly given for canceling the program were all based on misconceptions. Since then we haven't done a damn thing to exploit their marvelous invention.

The convenient solution invented at Argonne is simple: instead of spending billions to dispose of our nuclear waste, we can re-use that "waste" to generate power by using advanced "fourth generation" nuclear power technology. Using just our existing nuclear waste, we can power the entire planet for centuries.

Our uranium "waste" is our biggest and most valuable energy resource

Did you know that our uranium waste is our nation's #1 energy resource? In fact, just in the depleted uranium (DU) waste alone (the stuff left over after natural uranium has been enriched), we have more than 10 times the extractable energy than we have from coal in the ground!

Using fast reactors (a type of fourth generation nuclear), we can make use of this "waste" and extract enough energy to power the entire planet (at the current usage rate) for 700 years. After 700 years, we can extract uranium from seawater. There is enough uranium in seawater to power the entire planet forever (we will be burned alive by the Sun before we run out of nuclear fuel).

Yet the Department of Energy (DOE), due to an admitted lack of funds to properly study the problem, currently plans to spend $428 million to permanently get rid of the DU. Such an action would be as nonsensical as Saudi Arabia suddenly deciding to pay someone to destroy all their oil reserves!

Hopefully, someone at DOE will stop this from happening. It is directly contrary to the recommendation of a National Academy of Sciences committee (specifically requested by the DOE in 1991 to study this issue) that fuel retrievability should be extended to a reasonable time (on the order of 100 years) to avoid foreclosing alternative fuel strategies that may be in the national interest.

The IFR is superior to today's nuclear technology in every respect

Fast reactor nuclear power designs, such as the IFR, are more than 100 times more efficient than our existing light water nuclear reactors (LWRs). The waste they produce is minimal, short-lived, and relatively easy to safely store: a factor of 500 less in space-time requirements than the waste from our existing nuclear reactors. If an American used nuclear power their entire life, they would produce enough nuclear waste to fill a soda can.

The IFR is inherently safer than existing reactors: they can't melt down because the laws of physics prevent it. They are also objectively more resistant to use in weapons proliferation than existing reactors and also substantially more proliferation resistant than the far more expensive alternatives that we have already decided are perfectly safe (such as the $10 billion we are currently spending on the AREVA MOX plant in South Carolina).

LWRs are very safe and the nuclear industry is one of the nation's safest working environments. It is safer to work at a nuclear power plant than in the manufacturing sector and even the real estate and financial sectors! Yet, IFRs are better than LWRs in every aspect, including safety. Here are a few excerpts from emails from former Argonne Lab associate director Charles Till regarding the safety of IFR reactors:

These [safety] effects are not theoretical or subject to informed challenge. They have been proven by full-scale experiments in the assemblage of fast reactor test facilities in Idaho by Argonne National Laboratory.


The ultimate point is that no radioactivity will be released. Period. Under any circumstance. And under even very, very unlikely circumstances which would lead to a mess in other reactors, the IFR will not even incur damage.


IFRs also meet the four requirements (transparency, security, waste, and proliferation) that President Obama recently laid out as a pre-requisite for using nuclear energy. Till pointed this out four years ago.

Even though the initial capital costs of these plants are high, over the 60 year lifetime of the plants, they are a small fraction of the cost of generating power from renewables.

Other countries are building fourth generation nuclear reactors

Russia, China, and India are building fast nuclear reactors now and the French plan to begin construction in 2012 with completion by 2020. Japan plans to build a prototype fast reactor by 2025.

Russians scientists independently found the same thing the scientists at Argonne have been saying for years: these plants are safer and less expensive to build and operate than existing nuclear plants and they solve the nuclear waste problem while providing a virtually inexhaustible power source. The Russians also realized a key point that the 2003 MIT report on the Future of Nuclear Power had missed: that if nuclear power grows faster than people think, large scale deployment of fast reactors will absolutely be required in as little as 25 years from now (see the first paragraph of BN-800 as a New Stage in the Development of Fast Sodium-Cooled Reactors).

In the US, the complexity of understanding the science combined with an abundance of misperception and misinformation has stalled any progress on fast nuclear technology

Dr. Hansen and scientists at MIT are urging Obama to build fast reactors now. House Members Jerry McNerney (D-CA) and Judy Biggert (R-IL) agree.

But what about Al Gore? The environmental groups? What do they think? The problem is that there is so much misinformation in the nuclear space and the science is so complicated that it takes a reasonably large investment of time to really understand what is going on so you can sort truth from fiction. Al Gore has looked at fast reactors, but hasn't taken a position on the issue and it's likely he never will. The top environmental groups have either been too busy to be briefed, have no nuclear expert on staff qualified to be briefed, or have already taken an anti-nuclear position before the briefing and have no interest in impartially weighing the facts.

At the most recent Aspen Institute Energy Forum held March 25-28, the experts talked about how difficult tackling all three issues together: environment, economy, energy. Sure, I agree. It's difficult to impossible without the IFR. But the IFR enables us to solve all three simultaneously. But it wasn't brought up by anyone, even though the attendees acknowledged nuclear had to be part of the solution. This is a big problem that the "big thinker" experts assembled at Aspen seemed to be completely unaware of the world's best nuclear design.

The former top civilian nuclear guy at DOE thinks we are nuts for not pursuing this technology

Ray Hunter was Deputy Director of the Office of Nuclear Energy, Science and Technology in the U.S. DOE. At the time of his retirement in 1998, he was the most knowledgeable senior person in the government on civilian reactor research and development. He spent more than 29 years in DOE and predecessor agencies working on developing advanced nuclear reactors for civilian nuclear power applications. He's seen it all. He's heard all the arguments from every side multiple times. His conclusions are the same as Hansen; he thinks it is a huge mistake that we are not pursuing the IFR technology we invented at Argonne.

On December 23, 2008, Hunter wrote a letter to Senators Reid, McCain, Bingaman, and Mikulski explaining that before his retirement, he was the Director of the Office of Nuclear Energy at DOE and pointing out that "the energy content contained in LWR spent fuel and depleted uranium resulting from weapons production and enriched LWR new fuel production exceeds all the known oil reserves in the world." He pointed out that we have the technology to safely and securely harness that power and eliminate our nuclear waste at the same time. Hunter received no response to his letter; Senator Mikulski's office thanked him for sharing his thoughts but did not respond to any of his comments. But I don't blame these Senators at all. It's unlikely that any US Senator ever saw Hunter's letter; in each case, a staff person decided that his thoughts were not significant enough to bring to their Senator's attention.

It's not clear that we can rely on the DOE to make the right decisions

I recently wrote to the DOE offering to have the scientists who were directly involved in the IFR brief Secretary of Energy Chu on our most important source of energy. I received this email response from the DOE that a briefing was unnecessary as there are many people in DOE who are knowledgable about the IFR and that "the IFR definitely lives on." I said if that was true, then how it is possible that DOE wants to dispose of all the fuel that could be used to power these reactors? I received no response to my question.

I then asked Hunter how could it be that both Secretary Chu and DOE are saying fast reactors are good, while at the same time announcing plans to destroy the material that could be used to power them. I received the following response:
The main reason that nuclear energy development is so screwed up in DOE is that critical elements e.g. nonproliferation, waste, and nuclear R&D are in separate organizations all reporting to the Secretary. It requires real head knocking to integrate the pieces to have a rational program and there is no one in DOE sufficiently interested in nuclear to perform this task.


The problem is made worse by individual budgets requested and approved by Congress. In addition, the waste issue encompasses both civilian and defense waste. For example the depleted uranium stored as uranium hexafluoride at Portsmith, Ohio; Paducah, Kentucky; and Qak Ridge, Tennessee is a result of enrichment for weapons and naval reactors, enrichment for LWR commercial reactors and enrichment for DOE and University test reactors. The nuclear energy program should have requested funds to retain all of the material in a safe store condition as a future resource as you suggested. Since the material is under the waste program, funding was requested from Congress to dispose of it.

My guess is there wasn't any internal discussion on this matter. You might note from my resume that I had the assignment to address safety concerns about storage of the depleted uranium and an action planned was initiated to correct deficiencies and retain the material for possible future use.

Steve, I don't know who you talked to or sent a letter to at DOE regarding the IFR, but the response you got is baloney.


Sadly, many people now at DOE are content to not make any waves. They just do what they are told.

The disenchantment with the DOE is not just from people inside the DOE, but the dysfunction inside the DOE is also negatively impacting the quality of talent at our national labs. I received this email from a scientist who spent 33 years at Argonne including 10 years working on the IFR:

I was there at the birth of the IFR, in late 1983, and still there at the cancellation in 1994.My main beat was demonstration of the pyroprocess fuel cycle, which morphed into "EBR-II fuel treatment" post-1994. I was on the U. Chicago bid team which competed for the INL contract in 2004.When BEA wonthe contractand assumed command of the entire Idaho site in early 2005, ANL-W went away and was absorbed into INL.To this day most of the ANL-W people, and I think ALL of the key people who haven't retired or gone on, are very disenchanted with the inability to get much work done in the DOE environment.


I could only take it as an INL employee for nine months. When, on a Friday in November 2005 the Vice-President for Research at Idaho State U. said "Mike, you ought to just end this. Come on over to ISU full time". I said I'd be there the following Monday. 33 years, and I resigned inan hour.It couldn't have worked out better for me. I'm able to close out my career working with young budding nuclear engineers andbuilding research programs.

You asked about when the disenchantment began. I'd say around 1990. I think it was about then that the FBI rolled into Rocky Flats. Adm. James Watkins (retired, then DOE Secretary) became convinced that there was an inadequate "safety culture" in DOE facilities, and thus were spawned "Tiger Teams"-- composed of literally dozens of consultants who would descend on a major facility for two weeks. Months of preparations went into their much-feared visit. But that was only the tip of the iceberg. All sorts of new DOE orders related to safety, environment, and QA began to appear. The workplace became so highly proceduralized that it was increasingly difficult to get anything done.

So in my first 20 years or so, being on the Till team meant you were working on important things, and the work was getting done, and the results were exciting. The conception of the IFR in the days following cancellation of the Clinch River Breeder Reactor project, the birth or more accurately the rebirth of the pyroprocess, the EBR-II safety tests in 1986 -- damn those were heady days.

Why are other countries pursuing our invention while we aren't even talking about it? We seem to be pretty good at spreading misinformation and hanging on to old preconceptions especially when it relates to nuclear.

When DOE evaluated all the nuclear technologies, the IFR came out as #1

When we look at things objectively, we get the right answer. When DOE adequately funds a study, they do great work (it's when they don't adequately fund a study like the DU disposal study cited above that they have problems).

In 2001, as part of the Generation IV roadmap, the DOE tasked a 242 person team of scientists from DOE, UC Berkeley, MIT, Stanford, ANL, LLNL, Toshiba, Westinghouse, Duke, EPRI, and many other institutions to evaluate 19 of the best reactor designs on 27 different criteria. They spent a year doing this. So this wasn't just "a" study. This was the mother of all nuclear studies; the most comprehensive comparison of nuclear designs ever done. The IFR ranked #1 in their study which was released April 9, 2002.

People outside the US have recognized the importance of fast reactors and the IFR

The Russians very clearly understand how significant the IFR invention is to the future of energy. Len Koch, who was the IFR project manager at Argonne, was awarded the Global Energy International Prize by Russian President Vladimir Putin in Russia in June 2004 for his work on the IFR. The prize is awarded "to assist international cooperation in solving today's most important problems in the field of power generation."

Koch recently sent me the following note:

A POUND OF URANIUM (ABOUT THE VOLUME OFA TENNIS BALL) CONTAINS THE ENERGY EQUIVALENT TO ABOUT 5,000 BARRELS OF OIL! And we have about a MILLION TONS OF URANIUM in storage (as waste), from which we have only extracted about 1% of the contained energy.


We understand what must be done to extract that remaining energy, but we quit trying to learn and demonstrate how to do it in an acceptable manner. We need to reinitiate the program that we started more than 60 years ago. It will require a the support and leadership of the Government. We do not even have an operational Fast Reactor in our Country now. The Government shut-down the two which we had.


People from other countries who have looked at the facts objectively came to the same conclusion Russia, India, France, China, Japan, and South Korea did.

Prominent Australian climate scientist Barry Brook admitted that he spent months educating himself on fourth generation nuclear before he came to the same conclusion Hansen did. In fact, before Brook heard about fourth generation nuclear, he thought the global warming problem was intractable because his own calculations confirmed the observations of many others (including Energy Secretary Steven Chu, MIT President Susan Hockfield and US Senator Lamar Alexander) regarding the necessity of nuclear power due to the problems with renewables being able to scale to meet our energy needs. With fourth generation nuclear in the mix, Brook has gone from being a climate pessimist to being an optimist about our ability to replace our existing energy sources with carbon-free power. He's written extensively about the IFR on his site, more so than any climate scientist on the planet.

The Green case against nuclear power is based largely on myth and dogma

Noted UK environmental writer Mark Lynas did the same thing Brook did...objectively looked at the evidence. He came to the same conclusion as Brook and Hansen. He wrote about his "conversion" in an article in the Sunday Times on September 28, 2008:
Just a month ago I had a Damascene conversion: the Green case against nuclear power is based largely on myth and dogma. My tipping point came when I discovered just how much nuclear power has changed since I first set my mind against it. Prescription for the Planet, a new book by the American writer Tom Blees, opened my eyes to fourth-generation "fast-breeder" reactors, which use fuel much more efficiently than the old-style reactors, produce shorter-lived waste and can also be designed to be "walk-away safe".

Lynas wrote how he was criticized by his peers for supporting nuclear, but privately some of them admitted that they agreed with him.

In our own country, GE-Hitachi Nuclear Energy and a consortium of America's major corporations (including Babcock & Wilcox, Bechtel, Westinghouse, and Raytheon) came to the same conclusion. They have a reactor design, the PRISM, that is ready to be built based on the original Argonne IFR design.

There is a lot of misinformation about nuclear

There is a tremendous amount of misinformation about nuclear out there. There are books and papers galore that appear to be credible citing all the reasons nuclear is a bad idea. I could probably spend the rest of my life investigating them all. Those reports that have been brought to my attention I've looked into and, after a fair amount of effort, found them not to be persuasive.

Did you know that there is more than 100 times more radiation from a typical coal plant than a nuclear plant, yet the nuclear plant is perceived by the public to be a radiation hazard.

Another example of misinformation is in Discover magazine June 2009 entitled "New Tech Could Make Nuclear the Best Weapon Against Climate Change" talking about the importance of the IFR to both greenhouse gas emissions and to our future energy needs. But the article implies the scientists want to do more studies and that an improved design will take 10 to 20 years. I keep in close touch with a number of the top scientists who worked on the IFR, including IFR inventor Charles Till, and they are saying the opposite...that we are 20 years late on building one and the sooner we build one, the better.

We should build a $3B demonstration plant now to get started

We should be exploring all viable options to solve our energy problems and global warming. General Electric working with Argonne and/or Idaho National Laboratory (INL) could build a small prototype fourth generation nuclear reactor (311 megawatts of electricity (MWe)) for about $2 billion and $1 billion for a pilot commercial-scale pyroprocessing plant to recycle the spent fuel. That $3 billion one-time investment would settle once and for all whether this is a good idea or not. Following this demonstration, the deployment of dozens of commercial fast reactors and pyroprocessing facilities needed to handle the light water reactor (LWR) spent fuel could be economically competitive as electricity generators and their construction could be carried out by the industry using standardized, modular, factory built designs to reduce costs without any further government investment. Compare that one-time R&D investment to the estimated $96 billion cost of storing the waste at Yucca Mountain. Isn't it smarter to spend a little money to prove we can recycle our waste and generate power than to spend $100 billion to bury it? Compare this one-time $3 billion investment to the $10 billion that will be spent on the AREVA Mixed Oxide (MOX) plant, which is being built to dispose of only 33 tons of plutonium. The MOX plant is a big waste of money. The IFR could denature the weapons Pu much faster and more cheaply.

Nuclear is the elephant in the room, but the politicians are still ignoring it

Obama and Energy Secretary Chu have both pointed out that nuclear provides 70% of the carbon-free power in America even though we haven't built a new nuclear plant in the US in 30 years! Yet in the latest House energy bill (HR 2454), in over 932 pages of text, the word "nuclear" appears only twice: once in a definition of "retail supplier's base amount" on page 23, and once on page 351 where nuclear plants qualify for monetary awards if they use innovative means to recover any thermal energy. That's it.

Now you'd think that a bill entitled "American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009" that proclaims to create clean energy jobs and achieve energy independence would have more than 2 words about nuclear since it is our largest energy asset and also our largest carbon-free energy source. There is no mention at all of fourth generation nuclear in the bill. I'd think they should at the very least acknowledge the omission with a footnote along these lines:

"Even though nuclear supplies the vast majority of our carbon-free power and even though fourth generation nuclear is more than 100 times more efficient as existing nuclear, and even though the waste products are minimal and short-lived, and even though these reactors have been demonstrated to be inherently safe, and even though these reactors can use our existing nuclear waste as fuel and virtually eliminate our $100 billion nuclear waste problem, and even though other countries such as Russia, China, India, Japan, and France are either building or planning to build these plants, and even though we can power our entire planet for thousands of years from our existing uranium resources without any CO2 emissions, and the energy content contained in LWR spent fuel and depleted uranium resulting from weapons production and enriched LWR new fuel production exceeds all the known oil reserves in the world, and even though the US Congress voted to fund fourth generation nuclear every year for 10 years from 1984 to 1993, we haven't spent any time discussing the role of fourth generation nuclear in this Congress or in any Congress in the last 15 years and this is probably very short-sighted of us."
After the bill was drafted, Lisa Price, senior vice president of GE-Hitachi testified before the House Science and Technology committee on June 18, 2009 about the benefits of IFRs. The bill hasn't changed.

Today's nuclear designs are substantially better than the reactors built 30 years ago. For example, the new Babcox and Wilcox mPower reactor can be constructed in only 3 years, is scalable (it can produce as little as 125 megawatts making it economical for smaller regions), air-cooled (so the water needs are minimal), and it can store its waste underground for 60 years.

Twelve reasons we should spend $3B to build a demonstration IFR plant today

Here are my top 12 reasons as to why the IFR (and pyroprocessing of LWR spent fuel) is the right thing to do now for the nation and for the world:
  1. If you're going to build new nuclear plants, IFRs are superior to LWRs in every dimension. Experts I've talked to agree that nuclear has to be an important part of the energy mix going forward. It's hard to argue this isn't the case since even 30 years after the time we built our last nuclear plant, nuclear is still supplying 70% of the clean power in the US. Fourth generation reactors such as the IFR are simply a "better" nuclear in every respect: lower cost, more efficient, less waste, all the waste is short-lived, inherently safer (it doesn't need any active safety systems since the laws of physics shut it down if something goes wrong), and the nuclear material is unsuitable for use in weapons so it is inherently more proliferation resistant. That's why the IFR ranked #1 in the DOE's comprehensive study of alternative nuclear reactor designs.
  2. IFRs are the safest, most cost-effective solution to our nuclear waste problem. IFRs can efficiently consume the waste we've already generated from existing light water reactors so they are simply a cleaner, safer, and more cost-effective solution to "dispose" of our nuclear waste than any of the alternatives that have been proposed. Rather than trying to secure that waste for 10,000 years, IFRs reuse it and eliminate all the long-lived nuclear waste. The head of civilian nuclear at DOE spent years trying to get the DOE to do the right thing and failed for political reasons.
  3. In order to wean other countries off of coal, you must offer them a technology that is more attractive than coal or they aren't going to switch. The IFR technology can achieve that. Renewables can't (which is why Germany is still building coal plants even though they want to get rid of their CO2 emissions). China and India will experience tremendous energy growth and only the huge energy potential of IFRs are a realistic alternative to coal.
  4. Even long-time vocal critics of nuclear power such as Amory Lovins agree that investing in the IFR now as a "contingency plan" in case renewables and/or carbon capture and sequestration don't work out is sound public policy. Even ardent believers in renewables concede that we cannot take anything, including nuclear, off the table.
  5. The IFR (called the PRISM) has already been Authorized to Build by Congress in the 1992 Energy Policy Act. GE-Hitachi has had a design ready to build for years (the S-PRISM).
  6. IFR power is virtually inexhaustible and more reliable and predictable than renewable power. IFRs can supply humanity's energy needs for millions of years if we are willing to mine additional uranium beyond what we already have on hand (which is sufficient for the next 700 years). Winds can change and die down. For example, a new report says that because of climate change, wind speeds are diminishing across parts of the United States, including a 10 percent drop in the Midwest over the last decade. The number of low or no wind days also has been increasing, according to the report by a team of scientists at Indiana and Iowa State universities. During the California heat wave and blackouts of 2006, wind's output dropped to 4% of rated capacity during peak demand - so effectively required 100% fossil or nuclear backup. Solar can be obscured by air pollution (such as the Atmospheric Brown Cloud that grows bigger every day and is "dramatically" reducing sunlight in many Chinese cities). Hydro power can be diverted or dry up. But nuclear just keeps humming 24x7 for millions of years with no emissions. If you want a nice contingency plan for when renewables fail, nuclear is it. It isn't dependent on any external factors. To ignore nuclear as an important part of the energy mix would be irresponsible public policy.
  7. Nuclear power is cheaper than power from renewables and soon will be cheaper than coal. A nuclear plant costs more up-front to build than a wind or solar plant, and they take longer to build, but they have low operating costs and they last 60 years or more making them a far better financial investment than renewable power typically by a factor of 2. For example, if you use this calculator to compare an AP1000 to GE 2.5 MW XL wind turbines with pumped storage for load management, in North Dakota you get $13 billion/GW for the wind option vs. a max cited figure for a US AP1000 (a new nuclear reactor from Westinghouse) of $7 billion. If the AP1000 lives up to its promises of $1000 per KW construction cost and 3 year construction time, it will provide cheaper electricity than any other fossil fuel based generating facility, including Australian coal power, even with no sequestration charges.
  8. The heat from IFRs can be used to reprocess transportation fuel practically for free. The IFR gives us more options for ending our oil addiction. If we move to boron-powered cars, the fuel can be recycled in a IFR for nearly free, since the high temperatures are already there. You can't do that with a renewable plant.
  9. Existing coal plants can be economically converted into clean nuclear plants. No country has to abandon the huge investment they've made in coal plants. As Felix Salmon pointed out in his blog "Nuclear Power: Going Fast," you'd just replace the burner and the control room. This makes the economics irresistible even if you don't give a damn about global warming.
  10. To reduce the concerns about proliferation, the plants could be jointly owned and operated securely by the US and the host country. Or we can just restrict the technology to countries who already have nuclear power. However, there have been 0 people killed since the dawn of time due to nuclear proliferation from a power plant. An IFR would be the last place you'd go to get material for building a weapon because you'd have to invent technology that doesn't exist to purify the material to make it suitable for a weapon.
  11. Nuclear can be deployed very rapidly. About two thirds of the currently operating 440 reactors around the world came online during a 10 year period between 1980 and 1990. In southeast Asia, reactors are typically constructed in 4 years or less (about 44 months)
  12. The amount of waste generated in an IFR is minimal; all the reprocessing is done on-site. With reprocessing, if an American used nuclear power their entire life, they would produce enough nuclear waste to fill a soda can.
  13. Pyroprocessing is at least 5 times cheaper than PUREX The French PUREX method for reprocessing nuclear waste is too expensive to be practical. The IFR method is much cheaper and the facility can be located within the plant so the nuclear material never leaves the plant.
  14. Pyroprocessing doesn't create a proliferation risk The PUREX method for reprocessing can easily be "adjusted" to produce pure plutonium. This is impossible to do using pyroprocessing. We can't just bury our heads in the sand an pretend nuclear and reprocessing is going to go away. The genie is out of the bottle. If we continue to keep our pyroprocessing technology secret, the world will move to PUREX because there is no other viable option. So by sequestering our best nuclear technology, we are making the world less safe.

We need a vision for the future of nuclear; one we can commit to long-term

The current funding for nuclear is fragmented without a clear direction. We need to establish a clear, long-term plan for advanced nuclear. We must make sure we have a clear understanding of why we are doing this so we don't keep revisiting this issue and changing our minds. I think the only way to create such a plan is to assemble a very small team of people who really understand the issues involved. Ray Hunter could give you a list. It's a very short list. The key to making this work well is in the selection of the people. Pick the wrong people and this is a terrible idea. Pick the right people and it's brilliant. A key part of that plan should be to immediately appropriate the $3B to build a 311 MWe prototype fourth generation reactor and a pilot commercial-scale pyroprocessing plant

Listen to scientists, not ideology

Recently, Senator Barbara Boxer laid out six principles for fighting global warming that are "simple, but extremely important." Number one on Boxer's list is: "Listen to scientists, not ideology." That's a great principle and we should all be paying attention.

Nuclear energy is our largest carbon-free power source today. We have one US national laboratory that is run by the US DOE whose primary mission is to "ensure the nation's energy security with safe, competitive, and sustainable energy systems:" Idaho National Laboratory. So why aren't we heeding Senator Boxer's advice and paying attention to what those scientists have accomplished and listening to what they are telling us today?

If for some reason we shouldn't listen to ANL, then shouldn't we listen to the 242 scientists from all over the country that DOE asked to evaluate which was the best nuclear technology?

Finally, the main reason we are in this crisis situation today is due to our government's lack of a long term vision and strategy with respect to global warming. So we need to be sure not to make the same mistake again.

The good news is that key members of Congress realize that this isn't just a local problem. To stabilize the climate, we basically have to completely eliminate the emissions from every coal plant on the planet and we don't have a lot of time to accomplish that.

The bad news is their plan to achieve that goal has virtually no chance of success.

Would you bet your planet on our current strategy?

Here's their plan: we are going to invest in carbon capture and sequestration (CCS) to see if we can make it work at scale, make it reliable, commercialize it, then export it to other countries who will adopt it for all their coal plants.

In short, they are banking the future of humanity on exporting a technology that doesn't yet exist at scale, that may never exist, that even if it exists would likely be extremely hard to implement reliably, that nobody really wants (since it is only for the environment), that would be easy to cheat, that would probably raise the price of electricity to be unaffordably high, and that can be economically added only to coal plants that were originally constructed with CCS in mind of which there are none.

Holy cow... that's a lot of assumptions. Is that our official core strategy to save the planet??!?!?! I wouldn't want to bet my planet on that strategy and I don't think you should either.

The only realistic way to 'win the energy game' is to develop an energy source that is cheaper than coal

Fortunately, there is a smarter long-term strategy for getting everyone on the planet off of coal and it doesn't rely on goodwill, mandates, and/or trade policy coercion. It relies on pure economics.

My plan is simple: make IFR technology so cheap that running a coal plant will be the dumb economic decision.

I'd start by focusing my resources on my most promising technology. So I'd invest in commercializing our IFR technology that we invented 25 years ago. I'd do that immediately while the people who worked on the original project are still alive. This would have a side benefit in that it would give the people in our national labs a fantastic project to work on: a project that is both important to the world and scientifically challenging, much like the 1960's space program that put man on the moon. Once a few plants have been built, I'd invest lots of money to figure out ways to lower the construction costs through modularization and mass production. Then I'd have the US (in partnership with other countries we want to share the wealth with) finance construction of the plants in foreign countries, and make partnerships with the local government to jointly build and operate the plants so they would benefit too. In short, we could be the power supplier to the world if we are aggressive in investment and capturing market share.

My plan would displace existing coal plants because it would provide power at a cheaper cost than coal. It would be the equivalent of Wal-Mart moving into town and displacing the higher priced competitors. And of course, it will also eliminate the construction of new coal plants. Coal gets wiped out because a cheaper, more reliable, cleaner, and safer technology made it obsolete.

The heat from an IFR can be used for reprocessing a clean lower cost transportation fuel

There is one more thing I'd do. Instead of subsidizing the fossil fuel industry, I'd spend that money on commercializing technologies like using boron as a transportation fuel. The heat produced by IFRs can be used to reprocess boron used to fuel transportation at virtually no incremental cost. Using boron as a transportation fuel would take up as much space and weight as gasoline, but it's a completely recyclable, clean fuel (more precisely an energy carrier) with no emissions. The price per "gas gallon equivalent" would be a tiny fraction of the price of gasoline. So we'd clean up the air, eliminate greenhouse gas emissions, save money on every tank of "gas," and eliminate our dependence on foreign oil. You can't do that if you are building networks of renewable plants. By investing in IFRs, you have more options for future transportation fuels that can be used either as the sole fuel, or as the fuel in a boron-electric hybrid vehicle.

While we're doing the R&D for boron engines we can convert existing internal combustion engines to run on ammonia, which has already been done. Ammonia in this case would work as a hydrogen carrier, the hydrogen being easily produced by electrolysis powered by IFRs and then made into ammonia (NH3) with nitrogen from the air. Ultimately boron would be a better energy carrier because of its lack of volatility, solid form, and energy density, but if we want to get off oil ASAP, ammonia-powered cars can help get us there faster. These engines have already been built.

In my plan, the benefits to the US would be huge:
  1. we'd make lots of money (the return on our capital investment in the plant)
  2. we'd create lots of high paying jobs to build these plants and the parts for them and to operate them
  3. we'd reduce our trade deficit
  4. we'd get rid of our nuclear waste
  5. we'd help get industry going again
  6. by eliminating coal plants, we'd improve our air quality (for example, did you know that 25% of the particulates in the air in California come from China and that the Atmospheric Brown Cloud over China now has intercontinental reach with effects felt world wide)
  7. we'd wean ourselves off of gasoline onto a re-usable energy carrier (boron) that has no emissions that costs only 50 cents a gallon (see p. 146 of Prescription for the Planet). No more having to drill for oil.
  8. we could eliminate our dependence on foreign oil

The benefits to the world are huge in terms of CO2 reduction and air quality. It also solves the nuclear waste problem of other countries which, if left unchecked, could turn into a very messy situation.

The host country benefits too: they get cheaper power, they can prematurely retire their coal plants, and they get to clean up their air.

Everyone wins. And nobody has to debate whether global warming is a problem or not. Everything is justified on pure economics. What's wrong with that?

Apparently nothing. We know that the Russians are, in fact, planning to do precisely the plan I laid out. They aren't stupid. We shouldn't be either.

The amount of space required to generate huge amounts of electricity is quite small. Here's a picture of a completely self-contained 1.8GWe IFR plant including 6 modular reactors and an on-site reprocessing facility capable of powering 1.4M homes:2009-06-27-stk-IFRplant.jpg

Under my IFR strategy, after a small government investment and a willingness to allow these plants to be built, you could simply let economics take over. No Congressional mandates are required. Not that we can get such mandates anyway. For example, the renewable energy use requirements in the energy bills in both the House and Senate have been watered down so much in order to attract votes as to be meaningless (requiring virtually no change from the status quo).

Unfortunately, science, facts, and logic are simply no match for special interest money, perception, bias, misinformation, and beliefs. So I can have all the facts and all the most informed and smartest experts on my side like Hansen and Hunter and all the objective analysis like that two year DOE study showing the IFR was the best nuclear design, but that may not be enough.

Senator Lamar Alexander gets it. He is trying to revive nuclear energy in Congress. I hope he is wildly successful.

There are so many benefits to reviving the IFR: global warming, low cost energy, climate change, nuclear waste disposal, powering clean, low-cost transportation, and so on. You could justify it on any single benefit alone. At $3B to build a demonstration plant, it's a cheap insurance policy in case the official strategies don't pan out. That's pretty hard to argue against, especially when the stakes are planetary in scope.

My favorite argument for the IFR leaves my opponents completely unable to refute its logic and simplicity:
  1. Nuclear has to be an important part of the energy mix. Even the biggest proponents of renewables have conceded that point.
  2. The IFR is the best nuclear. The 2002 DOE study by 242 nuclear experts from all over the country selected by the DOE was quite comprehensive and definitive on that point.
Since nuclear is still our largest CO2-free power source (even after 30 years of not building a nuclear plant), I remain totally baffled why Congress isn't allocating the $3B to build a demonstration IFR plant. When I make my 2 point argument and ask that question, I am greeted with "I'll check that out with my staff" and then you never hear from them again. When you try to arrange a briefing with the staff, they are too busy to meet with you (or in the case of Waxman-Markey's staff, couldn't tell me who their nuclear expert was or even who might know who their nuclear expert was).


 

Follow Steve Kirsch on Twitter: www.twitter.com/spamguy

 
 
  • Comments
  • 379
  • Pending Comments
  • 0
  • View FAQ
Comments are closed for this entry
View All
Favorites
Recency  | 
Popularity
Page: 1 2 3 4 5  Next ›  Last »  (7 total)
05:51 PM on 07/21/2009
Rooftop solar is 3 cents per KWH, versus nukes 25 cents per KWH and without the proliferation risk.
04:01 PM on 07/20/2009
Bless you Steve. I can't overestimate your efforts in publicizing this information.

But I think you should be aware of the real enemy of nuclear power (specifically, the IFR variety). It is the unholy nexus between energy industry and the US Federal Reserve. If you want to learn more information, you should read about the critique of our current monetary policy from the Austrian school of economics (one good link is http://www.nolanchart.com/article4396.html). The strength of the US dollar is grounded in the relationship that US has with oil & natural gas exporting countries, that all oil prices will be quoted in US dollars. The petro-bourses in New York and London help maintain this status-quo. IFR or boron cars are very damaging to this alliance because they will reduce global demand for oil, and consequently are detrimental to the strength of US dollar. The killing of the IFR project was not a stupid decision by any means. The scoundrels are spread evenly in both parties : the military hawks amongst the republicans and the so-called non-proliferation / green hawks in the Democrats serve the same dark lord.

By the way, I strongly suspect that Amory Lovins and Ed Markey are in the pay-roll of the fossil fuel industry. The tentacles of the fossil fuel industry (and the US Fed) are into media and public policy. So please don't get disheartened if your voice doesn't find the right ear. Bless your golden efforts.
01:53 AM on 07/05/2009
Closing the nuclear fuel processing is something that the world will eventually accomplish as the one pass through technology we currently practice in the USA is very wasteful of limited Uranium fuel resources and in the long run will not be a sustainable approach. The IFR was excellent but relatively expensive technology that was canceled after over a decade of development only three years before its scheduled completion. The country would today be in a better position, particularly after the effective abandonment of the Yucca Mountain Geological Repository, if IFR had been finished and commercialized. I personally feel that Molten Salt Reactors can be superior to the IFR with respect to cost and the magnitude of the waste stream. Molten Salt Reactors can be used to close the nuclear fuel cycle and burn spent nuclear fuel in a way similar to IFR but can do so without the need to multiply reprocess the metallic solid fuel used in the IFR. Each fuel reprocessing step entails a small waste stream. If you have to reprocess metallic IFR fuel 30 times to burn all of the available fuel and process out all of the fission products and contaminants there will be a tiny loss of nuclear material each time you complete a fuel reprocessing step. This loss may be only a fraction of a percent but when you add up all of the separate waste contributions the total waste stream becomes large enough to require more effort to manage.
photo
HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Steve Kirsch
Entrepreneur and philanthropist
01:34 AM on 07/20/2009
There may be better designs than the IFR that are invented in the future. But the DOE did an extensive study in 2001 and 2002 of all 19 reactor designs. Over 200 experts from all over the world were involved. It concluded that the IFR was rated #1 overall.

So even though you may not think it is the best, the consensus of experts was that it was.
02:08 PM on 07/03/2009
Steve -
Thanks for the great article on this much neglected subject. Little or no discussion on Thorium Cycle reactors, however. Thorium Molten Salt Reactors may very well have the greatest potential and flexibility of the fourth generation options, e.g., passive safety design, minimal radioactive waste with short half-life, anti-proliferative, etc. Although Americans did the developmental research, the Indians and French appear to be far ahead in bringing this very safe technology on line. See http://thoriumenergy.blogspot.com/2009/04/thorium-molten-salt-reactor-launching.html. Wikipedia also has much useful detailed information on the history, technical issues, and safety/nonproliferation-aspects. As a result of Manhattan Project era weapons research and development wherein uranium and plutonium won out over thorium for weapons production, the U.S. government apparently has enough left over high grade thorium already in storage to meet all U.S. power needs for years to come.
Anyone who believes that fossil fuels and CO2 are dangerous, but refuses to recognize the validity of and support the expansion of modern, safe, non-proliferative 4th generation nuclear power is IMHO truly a Luddite. Keep up the good reporting and to paraphrase General Stillwell (and fracture Latin), "Ludditeimis non carborundum".
photo
HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Steve Kirsch
Entrepreneur and philanthropist
03:24 PM on 07/03/2009
I agree, the LFTR may ultimately prove better than the IFR. I commented on the LFTR below. That is a very promising technology and by all means we should be aggressively pursuing it too.

I was starting with the low-hanging fruit, the IFR, since it is further along and came out #1 in DOE studies.
07:02 PM on 07/05/2009
You don't know what you are talking about. http://www.greenleft.org.au/2009/794/40874
IFR are a proliferation risk.
photo
HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Steve Kirsch
Entrepreneur and philanthropist
12:00 AM on 07/06/2009
No, Jim Green who wrote that post doesn't know what he is talking about. People like you believe that misinformation and spread it.

Green wrote, "Proponents of IFR’s acknowledge the need for a rigorous safeguards system to detect and deter using IFRs to produce fissile material for weapons. However, the existing safeguards are inadequate. "

Really? Which proponents is he talking about?

Let's go to the source...Chuck Till's article on "Plentiful energy and the IFR story." Till makes it CRYSTAL clear IFR's reduce proliferation risk in the very first sentence of that article. He wrote, "The process cannot purify plutonium from the IFR spent fuel; it is scientifically impossible for it to do so."

There are so many in accuracies in Green's article...the word limit of Huffington Posts comments prevents me from elaborating, but Barry Brook has done a great job of picking apart Green's comments on bravenewclimate.com. You should check that out before spreading more misinformation.
photo
HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Steve Kirsch
Entrepreneur and philanthropist
01:14 AM on 07/06/2009
Also, I like what Jim Green put at the end of his article: Jim Green is an anti-nuclear campaigner with Friends of the Earth.

His goal is to cherry pick and distort facts and make up stuff to support his position, rather than rationally and objectively evaluate the facts. I've brought this up with him and he just changes the topic.
01:38 PM on 07/02/2009
Let's all pretend that Nuclear power industry is different people or science, than nuclear bomb tech.

Let's all pretend that nuclear power has not and does not lead to faster proliferation,

lets all pretend that no one has ever died from nuclear waste of nuclear tech.

Let's all pretend that Solar is not cheaper at 3 cents per KWH than nukes at 25-30 cents history costs.

Or, let's stop pretending and face the reality that

Nukes are Apocalyptically insane.

Literally. For I can think of nothing on earth so matching the description of the apocalypse and global nuclear war caused by proliferation.
06:56 AM on 07/02/2009
CO2 represents just 0.038% of the Earth’s atmosphere. The dominant factors in the Earth overall temperature are the Sun, the oceans, and even clouds.

If the U.S. weather service climate models are unable to predict changes in the weather by more than a week’s time, why would anyone believe that the IPCC’s models could predict it twenty, fifty or a hundred years from now?
04:43 PM on 07/02/2009
Please, will it get cold in the winter? Hot in the Summer? Of Course we can predict general climate much further into the future than specific weather.
05:42 AM on 07/02/2009
This article seems to point to an energy source that could derail the enablers of both sides of the climate change debate. This would be a good thing, in my view. That debate serves only to ensure half-measures in the delivery of clean, practical energy options. Humans aren't going to give up their creature comforts and we have to work from that basis (even though I admire the folks who live out the sustainable lifestyle and advocate a neutral environmental footprint ).

As a former supporter of the 'No Nukes' position, I find myself now leaning in favour of this option. especially with the fourth generation aspect as explained in this article. Plutonium is forever, but if it is and one pount of uranium has the energy equivalence of 5,000 barrels of oil, then let's use it forever.

Thanks for the article. I came here from Barry Brook's website, after being discouraged by another round of climate change debate by non-scientists.

One request...don't tell Newt Gingrich about this, lest it lose its credibility completely :-)
06:58 AM on 07/02/2009
In addition to IFR nuclear plants there is another type called LiFTR.
Instead of a solid fuel like IFRs, it uses a liquid fuel.
More info about it is at:
http://thoriumenergy.blogspot.com

There is also a short video summarizing it's benefits called "Thorium Energy Future" :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eU3cUssuz-U

There is also the very interesting Aim High Plan:
"Aim High Plan for Factory Mass Produced Liquid Fluoride Reactors"
http://nextbigfuture.com/2009/02/aim-high-plan-for-factory-mass-produced.html
01:27 PM on 07/02/2009
rooftop solar panel produce 5 times more energy per pound than nuclear fuel.

http://www.nanosolar.com/blog3/?p=225
02:24 PM on 07/02/2009
Maybe, I would like to see those peer reviewed equations instead of the owner's blog PR statements.

Either way the solar panels only work when the sun is shining unless you want to build a huge battery bank that uses lead and other nasty chemicals or use a diesel generator so that dinner can be cooked after 6pm as well as late night emails to family members and friends unless you are advocating a huge massive social and environmental reengineering of our society. Cut all the trees down that intefere with the solar angles and lights out at sundown anyone?.

What I find interesting is that Nanosolar is now comparing themselves to baseload power systems which means they have a way to generate power 24/7? Do they?? Oh wait they don't which takes me back to my previous paragraph.

By the way do you get a commission every time you mention these companies and their solar cells? None of us who are advocating Gen IV technology are shilling for specific companies. We are supporting a technology for specific reasons such as reliable power for a growing world population and to deal with prolieration issues. We have pointed to DOE or independent research not specific utilities. All I see from your running solar cell commentary are company websites so that must mean you are getting a commisssion right?
photo
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Imago
I thought so.
03:27 AM on 07/02/2009
Appreciate your passion, Steve. And if IFR can use and diffuse the waste that exists, that's a powerful point in its favor.

But some of your arguments are a bit disingenuous.

For example, your quote about the relative safety of working in a nuclear plant. This isn't an unbiased news source. That quote is from a nuclear industry press release with no definition of how that conclusion was reached based on the Bureau of Labor Statistics report. It's really easy to cherry pick a document like that and present the spin you want.

Or, the insistence by pro-nuke folks that Chernobyl wasn't that big a deal. See http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/11/041121220635.htm for a 2004 study about cancer rates in Sweden. Anecdotally, my sister was under the cloud as it blew over France -- and at 27, vegetarian for 12 years, no family cancer history, she was diagnosed with colon cancer afterwards. Can we prove Chernobyl did it? Nope. But the French government lied about the risk:
http://www.expatica.com/fr/news/local_news/france-hid-info-on-effects-of-chernobyl-cloud--26210.html

I'd feel a lot better about all of this if you folks would let up with the "it's perfectly safe!!!" breathlessness. No, it's not. It uses and produces some of the most toxic substances known to the planet. The risk can be managed, and may be worth it, but that is not the same thing as being risk free.
photo
HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Steve Kirsch
Entrepreneur and philanthropist
04:10 PM on 07/03/2009
Correct. It isn't risk free.

The objective statistics in the US are quite impressive:

From wikipedia:
To compare the historical safety record of civilian nuclear energy with the historical record of other forms of electrical generation, Ball, Roberts, and Simpson, the IAEA, and the Paul Scherrer Institut found in separate studies that during the period from 1970 - 1992, there were just 39 on-the-job deaths of nuclear power plant workers, while during the same time period, there were 6,400 on-the-job deaths of coal power plant workers, 1,200 on-the-job deaths of natural gas power plant workers and members of the general public caused by natural gas power plants, and 4,000 deaths of members of the general public caused by hydroelectric power plants.[3][4][5] In particular, coal power plants are estimated to kill 24,000 Americans per year, due to lung disease[6] as well as causing 40,000 heart attacks per year[7] in the United States. According to esteemed journal Scientific American, the average coal power plant emits more than 100 times as much radiation per year than a comparatively sized nuclear power plant does, in the form of toxic coal waste known as fly ash.[8]
06:07 PM on 07/01/2009
We must reevaluate science of global warming, free it from politic from any sides.
Solar cells, wind, geothermal, nuclear source of energy are disasters for environment and will bring to GW more damage than good things.
Our Government has poor understanding of GW, reasons for it and how to escape GW if it will occur.
GHG do not play significant role in nature.
Properties of water actually cool the air, despite water vapor is also GHG.
It is shame for world science to provide Governments in the world with wrong recomendation.

Sun is only one nuclear power plant, which will work for millions years and mankind no need to worry about its waste, or proliferation, or others form of disasters. Energy from sun is more than enough for earth population. Growing trees as source of energy is the cheapest way to produce energy compare with others today solutions.
Without any doubt it will be as environmentally as production friendly direction.
01:20 PM on 07/01/2009
The pronuclear people are

Confusing Safe,

with Apologetically deadly!
photo
HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Steve Kirsch
Entrepreneur and philanthropist
02:41 PM on 07/01/2009
No, the pro nuclear people are relying on real facts like how many people have really died showing nuclear in America is FAR safer than natural gas, coal, and hydro.
10:57 PM on 07/01/2009
people have died from radioactive releases.
09:36 AM on 07/01/2009
It's admirable that Mr. Kirsch is really engaged here, replying to many comments.

I wish more posters would behave so admirably -- interacting with commenters. I wonder if HuffPost could require it to some extent.

Meanwhile, I still completely disagree with Mr. Kirsch's proposal.
photo
HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Steve Kirsch
Entrepreneur and philanthropist
12:59 PM on 07/01/2009
The facts are experts agree we need nuclear, and experts agree that the IFR is the best nuclear design.

The opinion of mine is that in light of those facts, we ought to build one.

Do you disagree with the facts? Or do you disagree with my conclusion? If you disagree with my facts, then tell me why my facts are not facts. If you disagree with my conclusion, then tell me given those facts, what do you think the prudent course of action is?
01:21 PM on 07/01/2009
Experts agreed that deregulation was a good idea.

You disagree with MIT's historical cost of nukes of 25 to 30 cents per kwh?
01:35 PM on 07/01/2009
16 million deaths from nuclear radiation?

http://www.ratical.org/radiation/inetSeries/RB89.html
02:47 PM on 07/01/2009
I would dispute 16 million. That is stretching the stats to make an emotional case.

Why not find out how many people who are part of that 16 million this website claims also lived within breathing range of a coal burning plant that is allowed to discharge radioactive materials and heavy metals. When viewed from a total environment standpoint I suspect the "deaths" from coal would be far larger number within that 16 million.

Once again most of these issues are related to the nuclear weapons complex not commerical power. The two are different despite what you continue to put out.

Chernobly is not our issue here so to use those stats from that event in an attempt to stop nuclear power production in the US is like saying we should stop people from driving cars here because China does not have a seatbelt law.

I agree that the nuclear weapons complex of our past was not handled properly but that was weapons not power production. That is the past not the current state of technology or our nuclear future.

A 1970's arugment being used to stop 21st century problems will just lead to a decreased lifestyle 20-40 years from now..
06:39 PM on 07/02/2009
A 1970's argument being used to stop 21st century problems will just lead to a decreased lifestyle 20-40 years from now..

Agreed, since solar is now the cheapest electricity source, maybe you should adjust your thinking.
01:29 AM on 07/01/2009
Steve,

Thank you for an excellent article.

I don't have any faith that the US government will do anything until it is too late. I think it will be up to private industry and that is why I'm excited about projects such as GE's PRISM.

Any suggestions as to how an individual investor could contribute?
photo
HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Steve Kirsch
Entrepreneur and philanthropist
02:21 AM on 07/01/2009
I think there has to be support of this from the White House or nothing will happen. The capriciousness of government policy towards energy makes private investment very risky unfortunately. It's not a free market at all.

So if you have friends in the White House or Congress, that would be step #1...to bring this to their attention.
01:36 PM on 07/01/2009
More deaths from nuclear power waste:

http://www.nirs.org/radiation/radchart.htm
05:44 PM on 06/30/2009
Excellent article. I was initially for the environmental bill passed by the House, as I assumed that nuclear power would be its centerpiece. It is the ONLY course of energy that is not destructive, not even water and wind .. dams destroy wild rivers, wind turbines have destroyed the forests, pastures and the view. I realized it was just a feel-good charade when I learned that nuclear power is not even addressed. The politicians don't mind that the world is destroyed, they just wanted to pass a nicely named resolution to try to avoid the blame.
09:51 PM on 06/30/2009
Nukes = the Apocalypse, other than that, nuke power sucks. You think you will be ruptured?
photo
HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Steve Kirsch
Entrepreneur and philanthropist
02:18 AM on 07/01/2009
research, you should read JimHopf's comments, especially this one which applies to your comments:

Why? Especially given that the worst possible accident that could ever occur at an LWR (modern) nuclear plant would cause less than 1% as many deaths as those caused ANNUALLY by fossil fuel power plants.

You say that accidents/error will happen. Well, Western nuclear has been operating for over 40 years, and it has never killed a member of the public or had any measurable impact on public health. No official bodies recognize any public health impacts from nuclear power plants, whereas they (e.g., EPA) do recognize 25,000 deaths annually, in the US alone, from coal plants. Apparently, there is enough redundancy, or inherent safety, in LWR plants to accommodate any human errors that are made (and there certainly have been).
01:39 PM on 07/01/2009
More radiation Deaths:

"The researchers also found that 28 Oak Ridge workers died of leukemia, a relatively rare blood cancer, a rate of death 63 percent higher than expected among white men as a whole."

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/03/20/us/study-links-cancer-deaths-and-low-levels-of-radiation.html
12:08 AM on 07/02/2009
Present-day nuclear plant workers receive far lower levels of exposure than cold-war weapons plant workers did decades ago. And maximum dose rates to the public from nuclear plants are several orders of magnitude lower than that (a negligible fraction of natural background).

Even including any such (small) cancer risks, OSHA statistics show that working at a nuclear plant is the safest heavy industry job one can have, with overall risks similar to office work. (Wind turbine and solar planel installers jobs are much more dangerous, due to deaths/injuries from falls.)

Still waiting on the study (any study) which shows a link between cancer rate and natrual background exposure level (which varies by a factor of several, across the US). Many scientists question the results of this one study. Once again, perhaps it's due to some agent, present at Oak Ridge, other than radiation exposure. This would seem to make more sense, given that elsewhere in the world, no effects are seen for that level of radiation exposure.
02:55 PM on 07/02/2009
And don't try to tell my that business will behave better in the future.

Business will pollute. It's cheaper.
05:14 PM on 06/30/2009
Rooftop solar is CHEAPER.

I repeat: CHEAPER.

large commercial roofs can get 2$ /Wp installed, for about 3 cents per KWH.

Individuals can install their own for about 2.5$/Wp for about 4 cents per KWH.

1.85 per peak watt! retail!
http://www.atensolar.com/14.html
http://www.ecobusinesslinks.com/solar_panels.htm See my profile for complete proof and links.

The nuke industry has billion to spend on pr.

Watch out for Nuclear PR BS about 2 cent per KWH electricity. It's a lie.

"A 2008 study based on historical outcomes in the U.S. said costs for nuclear power can be expected to run $0.25-.30 per kWh.[37]

In 2009, MIT updated its 2003 study, concluding that inflation and rising construction costs had increased the overnight cost of nuclear power plants to about $4,000/kWe, and thus increased the power cost to 8.4/kWh.[38][39]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics_of_new_nuclear_power_plants#cite_note-36

With rooftop solar, YOU OWN THE GENERATOR. So you actually pay 3 cents per KWH over 30 years.

Not so with utility power, which can change at any time for profit, greed inflation or other reasons.
photo
HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Steve Kirsch
Entrepreneur and philanthropist
06:24 PM on 06/30/2009
Can you tell me a single company in California that will install solar on my rooftop and allow me to pay them 3 cents per kWH for all my power use? I'm 52 years old and I can't guarantee I'll be alive for 30 years.
09:49 PM on 06/30/2009
Read it more carefully. I listed a company that will sell you the parts for about 3$ per watt, 20k giving you about 4 cents per KWH. If you are large commercial rooftop purchaser, you may be able to get a 2$ installed prices. Nano Solar is sold out for 5 years last I heard, so you may have to shop around or install it yourself. I hear people are eager to work.
10:55 PM on 06/30/2009
You are asking the wrong question. rooftop solar is now a commodity. I listed a site that will sell you the panels and inverters you need for about 2-3$ per Wp. This works out to 3-4 cents per KWH over 30 years. The math for shorter times is very simple. 15 years is 6-8 cents KWH, 7 years is 12-16 cents per KWH. Because 2$ per Wp is such a great price, the demand is huge. If the 20k$ is too much for you, split it with some neighbors. How much do you think it would cost to hire some folks to install 185 modules? If you have someone install it with a packaged deal, you are likely to pay more like 4-5$ per Wp. For instance: http://news.prnewswire.com/DisplayReleaseContent.aspx?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/06-23-2009/0005048727&EDATE= 1.2KW for 5k.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ewoman
05:01 PM on 06/30/2009
Mr Kirsch. First, I tend to question anyone who feels a compulsion to write a supposedly unbiased article peppered with exclamation points. Those grammatical points tend to point to an overly enthusiastic and emotional writer in need of an unbiased editor.

Secondly, although I agree that something needs to be done with nuclear waste, the hurry-up attitude that you foster tends to breed mistakes. There can be no mistakes with nuclear power, but - despite all cautionary tales and past experience - mistakes will be made. To err is human, after all.

Finally, while I need to painstakingly comb through your article, I did not see immediately how the depleted uranium would be processed. Currently, Joppa, Illinois supplies the power to enrich uranium for power plants at the enrichment plant in Paducah, KY (the only enrichment plant currently operating in the U.S.). The power used to enrich this uranium? Coal. Enough coal to outstrip the power that Yemen produces as an entire nation.

It will be a long time before this country catches up to and safely uses the uranium and enriched uranium that it has produced since the 1950s. Touting something that can be used tomorrow - conservation and individual use of solar energy - is something that is realistic and easily understandable, IMO. It empowers people unlike anything you mention in your article.
photo
HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Steve Kirsch
Entrepreneur and philanthropist
06:21 PM on 06/30/2009
I'm not suggesting we drop renewables or conservation.

We should be doing efficiency today. I agree. But that is not enough.

My op ed just says we can't do it with renewables only, nuclear has to be on the table, and the IFR was objectively evaluated to be the best nuclear option. You didn't disagree with any of that.

I never said this would be ready tomorrow. If we start today, it will be ready in 10 years.

We should have done this 20 years ago. We are 20 years late.

We've done all the studies. You want to wait longer. For what? Waiting just compounds the problem which grows at an exponential rate.

The top global warming scientists say we are out of time; we are way late to the game.

The US Congress funded this every single year for 10 years. Then, when Clinton came in, he pulled the plug for bogus reasons. The Senate in fact voted to keep funding it. It's been studied to death.

So in hindsight, Clinton made a bad decision.

We should correct that as soon as possible.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ewoman
07:01 PM on 06/30/2009
Mr. Kirsch - thank you for your response. However, I still don't understand how depleted uranium is developed for nuclear power plants - is coal-powered energy used, such as the coal-powered energy used to enrich the yellowcake originally?

If so, then we're relying, once again, on nonrenewable traditional energy to develop a seemingly "new" fuel from waste developed from yet another nonrenewable resource - uranium. That would be a rather difficult argument to place for a 'clean' resource.
12:04 AM on 07/01/2009
"There can be no mistakes with nuclear power....."

Why? Especially given that the worst possible accident that could ever occur at an LWR (modern) nuclear plant would cause less than 1% as many deaths as those caused ANNUALLY by fossil fuel power plants.

You say that accidents/error will happen. Well, Western nuclear has been operating for over 40 years, and it has never killed a member of the public or had any measurable impact on public health. No official bodies recognize any public health impacts from nuclear power plants, whereas they (e.g., EPA) do recognize 25,000 deaths annually, in the US alone, from coal plants. Apparently, there is enough redundancy, or inherent safety, in LWR plants to accommodate any human errors that are made (and there certainly have been).
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ewoman
09:53 AM on 07/01/2009
Hi there. When I talk about nuclear power, I include all phases, including the mining and milling of uranium and the depleted waste - including the waste left behind by mining and milling. Research the issues around those topics to find deaths, birth defects and sicknesses. Ask the Navajo how they feel about uranium.

I have nothing, absolutely nothing, against nuclear power plants. What I have an issue with is the fuel that runs them.

It takes coal-powered energy to create the U-235 to run current nuclear plants, so you might include coal-mining and power issues. People tend to divorce nuclear power from the fuel that runs it, when there is a long string of events that occurs before and after that plant's operation.

Nuclear power cannot be divorced from those issues, any more than coal mining can be divorced from current power derived from that coal. And, in today's environment, you cannot divorce coal from nuclear without taking away the energy that produces U-235.

The enrichment plant you want to look at is the only one in the U.S., located in Paducah, KY (although two more are planned, one in Ohio and one in New Mexico). The coal-powered plant that powers the Paducah, KY operation is located across the Ohio River in Joppa, Ill.