Exclusive: Right Wing "Big Lie" About Clunker Law Exposed!
One of the major arguments against the clunker law comes from car collectors, restorers and enthusiasts who claim that the law takes potentially millions of perfectly good replacement parts off the road, and off of cars and trucks, forever.
Turns out, just as the claims that President Obama was born in Kenya and national health care boards will decide whether the old and sick can live or die, this isn't true.
With much of the more vocal opposition to the clunker law coming from southern Republican members of Congress with import car plants in their states and pro-business/anti-union Chamber of Commerce-type groups, whoever would imagine lies would be told about yet another Obama administration initiative?
While interviewing Bailey Wood of the National Automobile Dealers Association for my TalkRadioOne.com radio show, The Car Nut (get the podcast anytime at www.TalkRadioOne.com) he casually mentioned, as if this were something everyone knew, that many parts of the clunkers ostensibly headed for the crusher could be parted-out and sold, including most all of the vehicle except for the engine block and drivetrain.
He also said that Texas has its own state-sponsored clunker laws in major metro areas, while both Texas senators voted against the federal law, but that's yet another story ...
So let's go to the 136-page law itself, "DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, 49 CFR Parts 512 and 599, [ Docket No. NHTSA-2009-0120 ], RIN 2127-AK53, Requirements and Procedures for Consumer Assistance to Recycle and Save Program," to see what the rule really says (it's available as a .pdf file at www.cars.gov; click on the "Official Information" tab at the top of the page then "Download the Law").
Here are some excerpts:
"The CARS Act specifies that while many parts of the trade-in vehicle
are permitted to be removed and sold, in the end the residual vehicle, including the engine block, must be crushed or shredded."
"The dealer must agree to transfer the trade-in vehicle to a disposal facility that will crush or shred it so that it will never be returned to the road, although parts of the vehicle, other than the engine block and drive train (unless the drive train is sold in separate parts), may
be sold."
"The CARS Act contains an explicit Congressional instruction to take measures to prevent fraud and the statute's clear environmental objective is to ensure that the fuel inefficient parts of the vehicle are never again used on the highway. Taking the above considerations into account, including the Secretary's authority to prescribe the manner in
which the trade-in vehicle, including its engine block, is transferred to a disposal facility, the agency has determined that the prudent course of action, consistent with Congressional concerns about crushing or shredding, resale and fraud, is to require permanent disablement of the trade-in vehicle's engine block as a part of the qualifying
transaction under this program."
"We interpret 'engine block' to mean the part of the engine containing the cylinders and typically incorporating water cooling jackets and
also including the crank, rods, pistons, bearings, cam(s) and cylinder heads. In the case of a rotary engine, the block includes the rotor housing and rotor."
"Drivetrain" is defined in the law as including "transmission, drive shaft(s) and rear end."
"During the six-month period prior to the required crushing or shredding of the trade-in vehicle, the disposal facility may sell any parts of the vehicle other than the engine block or drive train (unless the drive train is dismantled and sold in parts)."
As for "disabling" the engine: "The agency has determined that a quick, inexpensive, and environmentally safe process exists to disable the engine of the trade-in vehicle while in the dealer's possession. Removing the engine oil from the crankcase, replacing it with a 40 percent solution of sodium silicate (a substance used in similar concentrations in many common vehicle applications, including patching mufflers and radiators), and running the engine for a short period of time at low speeds renders the engine inoperable. Generally, this will require just two quarts of the sodium silicate solution. The retail price for two quarts of this solution (enough to disable the largest engine under the program) is under $7, and the time involved should not substantially exceed that of a typical oil change. The agency has tested this method at its Vehicle Research and Test Center and found it safe, quick, and effective."
Essentially, the law says the entire vehicle other than the engine block and drivetrain can be parted-out and sold to junkyards, collectors, restorers, etc.
This puts the lie to yet another fear tactic being popularized by the fringe and mainstream media to attack an Obama White House program.
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Thank you Wind Feather. Your message made my day even better. The old car thing helps keep me level headed and mind off the health issues.
Right now I'm building a 38 Chevy that will have a late model engine out of an 04 Vette complete with A/C and other amnities. The car will get around 25- 30 MPG @70 and run 150 MPH if I have the balls to drive it that fast. But it is for fun and business, plus the wifey and I will use it for traveling too. They are a LOT of work but the end result is worth it. Recycling and putting good parts to better use is the key here. If only the feds could see it that way.
Keep on cruisn' Bro.
Mikey
I got a question for you car collectors:
My son has an '87 burgundy I-Rock Camaro with the T top which is in terrific condition except he recently had an engine problem that he right now can afford to fix. He might have blown the engine due to an oil leak, he's not sure. His regular car lease is almost up and he is considering whether or not he should trade the Camaro in as part of the Clunker program.
I am trying to convince him to sell it, so my question is...
Is his Camaro in its present condition worth more than $4,500?
If so, is anyone interested in purchasing it. The last offer he had when the car worked was over $6,500. The Camaro is located in Southwestern Connecticut.
You can contact me at cfl.rr.comn@cfl.rr.com
Thanks for nany advice.
stay on topic . if you want to sell a car , go to auto trader
First of all, your logic is flawed. It is ridiculous to assume all car collectors, restorers and enthusiasts are right-wing. Additionally, the engine is the most valuable part of virtually every salvaged car - a simple phone call to a local salvage yard will affirm that fact.
There is an urban clunker law in Texas, but there are two major differences:
1) Income limits - I buy fuel efficient cars. Why should I subsidize some fat cat who traded his Suburban in for a Volvo?
2) Engines that can be worth thousands of dollars are not destroyed
Many people in this country including me, have a BIG problem with destroying working equipment. Did you know it takes roughly the equivalent of 2340 gallons of gas to make a car? That means if your new car gets 27 mpg and your clunker got 15 mpg, at an average of 12k miles driven per year, it would take over 6 years to offset the energy required to make a new car. All this information is available on the internet.
Halsey, you are right to degree. Most of the car guys I know are working class people working on their own car to build them with what money they have. As for expendable $$$, many car guys are very resourceful in saving money, doing side work for extra cash and belong to clubs where everyone pitches in to get each others' car done, plus enlisting the help of each other for parts, paint, maintenance, etc. Like you many have ilnesses but they keep plugging away. I know 5 right now battling cancer. I too have a serious ilness- DPN-Diabetic Peripheral Neuropathy and at 52 I'm not ready to give up a foot, or both, but seems that is the way it is going. If it happens, I'll keep fooling around with the old cars as long as I can for therapy more than the end result. I hope you enjoy the PT Cruiser as it is after all, designed after the 37 Ford sedan. Yep, an old car. Now go get some therapy and burn some rubber.
Mikey...th
I am truly sorry about your battle with DPN...(I faced smaller neuropathy with the last chemo I was on...but..
Keep me posted...y
Blessings,
Wind Feather
okay...my first thought is..car collectors and restorers.
I soooo benefitted from CARS..My 1991 Volvo while a great car..had 195,000 miles..yes
I am the middle American (single, 54, .struggling as I've never had to struggle )..this program, .truly SAVED MY BUTTSKY!..
I see none of you on here are car collectors, restorers, builders or know anything about the collector car or auto aftermarket industry. Collector cars for the most part cover all vehicles from the 1800's to 1972 with a few special cars in the mid/late 70's early 80's coming in the market.
The clunker programs will have a little effect on the car collector hobby because most of the parts we need are reproduced, in storage, or sold at swap meets. Some clunkers with an engine or transmission we might use, but I'd rather suppport the automotive aftermarket.
When it comes to recycling, collectors are the original recyclers. They were helping the economy and the enviro decades before all this clunker BS.
The specialty aftermaket is a huge multi-billion dolar industry that creates business and millions of good jobs where people are passionate about what they do.
All manufacturers offer affordable replecemen
Speaking for car collectors, we are concerned more with the feds trying to outlaw our hobby than what they do with junkers. We don't really give f#@k about left or right wing BS or what the feds are doing with the bailout money, just leave us alone so we can play with our toys. When they outlaw our classic then we'll all be outlaws. Mikey
Your enemy being against something you do does not make you a genius doing it.
:-)
Just like their lie about 'how those cars could go to low income people". Stinking capitalists.
One more thing about this very strange article : One of the pictures of an older car is of a 1980 Ford Fairmont Futura, which would not qualify for the CARS program since the cut off date is 1984. Very few Ford fans consider this car "collectible".
It would be collectible if it had a punched-out 460, C-6 and 3.73 gears in a 9" posi with 4-wheel disk brakes on a rust-free chassis/body, but otherwise, nope.
You also have to like the other pics in this blog. None of these cars would be traded in under the program.
Any statement coming from the right wing is a big lie.
Try reading the article instead of just the headline
"One of the major arguments" is how Mr. Parker starts this blog. A blog needs a subject, and assuming that everyone knows what Mr. Parker is blogging about is a disservice to the reader.
It's called a "lede".... read the headline for the subject.
I doubt any car collectors will be turning in their cars under the "clunker" program and hadn't heard it brought up before so I don't get the premise of this post. I have a 1970 Saab 96 which is worth less than $4500 but I wouldn't junk it.
I think the problem is confusing a program which is popular with some auto buyers who want to get rid of a car worth less than $4500 and appreciate the extra money, with sound government policy. Yes, car sales went up, but those $20,000 cars will be worth $10,000 in three years and we will still have the $3 billion in debt. But should the government also give cash for old TV's, refrigerators, toaster ovens, etc. to increase sales in those areas?
Your car would not qualify since the cut off date is 1984. However, I agree that the point of this whole story is obscure. The story itself qualifies as misinformation.
The stats so far show that most of the trade ins have been American SUVs and trucks that are about 15 or so years old. I'm sure that there will be plenty left for collectors. It was my understanding that they couldn't be older than 1987 anyway.
I don't know of many real collector cars that are worth less than the $4500 rebate.
The article has a nice picture of a Ford Fairmont. My 1980 Ford Fairmont has been a collectors item since the engine blew up in a downtown Detroit parking lot in 1988 after 75,000 miles.
I've never even heard this objection from anyone until you wrote it. It may be a far-fringe objection; however, "exposing" it as "big lie" is just bad journalism. The major truth about the cash-for-clunkers is that it is a program from a government who cannot afford more debt for people who can't afford more debt - in a couple of years, will we need a stimulus to bail people out of auto loans the mean bankers made to them?
I agree. I have not heard or read about anyone objecting to the CARS program because of it's affect on the "collector car " market for parts. In fact, the person cited by the author as the alleged souce of this so called big lie, is actually agreeing with the author , that residual parts from the cars may be sold by the scrap yards. I also agree with you that this story is bad journalism since it discusses a big lie that that does not exist , except in the author's mind.
If everything Obama does is so terrible, why do they have to have disinformation campaigns.
I mean if its so bad, wouldn't the truth be enough?
http://www
http://www
There is no disinformation campaign on this issue. Read the article. Both the quoted source and the author are saying the same thing. I would like know who approved this article for HP. Does any story which alleges there an attack against the administration and a misinformation campaign by conservatives, get rubber stamped?
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