Are We Willing to Die for Our Country?
by Taylor Marsh
Soldiers do it every day.
But to save the tenets on which this country was founded, for which we have always stood and U.S. soldiers die every day, are we willing to do the same?
It is being called "a perfect storm of ignorance and enthusiasm." It seems the only thing we came to fear was getting caught not doing enough, no matter what "enough" meant. The inability to access the morality of the means by which we protect ourselves got us into this mess. The cowardice to be willing to die for which we stand, the tenets of this American democracy, more prevalent than the courage to stand up to protect it, no matter the personal cost.
However, after listening to the serious men on "Morning Joe" exchange their pontificating hot air on the importance of knowing the "truth," but that simultaneously no one should be held accountable (or prosecuted if found guilty), no matter where that truth leads, there is little doubt how we got ourselves in this mess. The "leading" lights of government and traditional media, that dying forth estate that now holds court under the glare of cable network spotlights, all made up, some with their hair greased down, others looking rumpled, no woman in sight, holding court to weigh in on the realities of 9/11 and how all Americans supposedly were willing to do -- here it comes -- "whatever it takes" to keep "America safe," starting with 9/12. This included all manner of harsh interrogation techniques that we now know were readied before they were legal, all through the stroke of a pen from George W. Bush, who obviously mistook the presidency for king.
With the release of the Armed Services Committee Detainee Report today, we find out how our leaders, helped along by the fourth estate who fell asleep, all believe what Nixon believed, only with a broader brush: Whatever Americans do is not illegal.
(U)On February 7,2002, President Bush signed a memorandum stating that the Third Geneva Convention did not apply to the conflict with al Qaeda and concluding that Taliban detainees were not entitled to prisoner of war status or the legal protections afforded by the Third Geneva Convention. The President's order closed off application ofCommon Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions, which would have afforded minimum standards for humane treatment, to al Qaeda or Taliban detainees. While the President's order stated that, as "a matter of policy, the United States Armed Forces shall continue to treat detainees humanely and, to the extent appropriate and consistent with military necessity, in a manner consistent with the principles of the Geneva Conventions," the decision to replace well established military doctrine, i.e., legal compliance with the Geneva Conventions, with a policy subject to interpretation, impacted the treatment of detainees in U.S. custody.
(U) In December 2001, more than a month before the President signed his memorandum, the Department of Defense (DoD) General Counsel's Office had already solicited information on detainee "exploitation" from the Joint Personnel Recovery Agency (JPRA), an agency whose expertise was in training American personnel to withstand interrogation techniques considered illegal under the Geneva Conventions. ...
That's obviously what was being set up, as President Bush and his administration decided that America had no moral code to follow because we were hit on 9/11.
It's especially helpful if you have the medical and psychological institutes represented, on cover thinner than a fig leaf, standing guard:
As one JPRA instructor explained, SERE training is "based on illegal exploitation (under the rules listed in the 1949 Geneva Convention Relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War) of prisoners over the last 50 years." The techniques used in SERE school, based, in part, on Chinese Communist techniques used during the Korean war to elicit false confessions, include stripping students of (sic) their clothing, placing them in stress positions, putting hoods over their heads, disrupting their sleep, treating them like animals, subjecting them to loud music and flashing lights, and exposing them to extreme temperatures. It can also include face and body slaps and until recently, for some who attended the Navy's SERE school, it included waterboarding.
Is it any wonder that American politicians and others, for so long, condoned what Israel has done to the Palestinian people, because of what was done to them by Palestinian bombers? Quid pro quo becoming the standard, as long as a nation did it under protecting the people. Morality slipping into the abyss of national security.
That the blame is being put on the "far left," with those of us whether "far left" or not, demanding our country hold people accountable, makes those citizens fighting for America to regain our moral high ground the last refuge of brave patriots. Vilified, we stand resolved, because we know we are taking our country back to the high ground where the nation began. Willingly standing to sacrifice all for this country in lieu of ripping ourselves to shreds on the altar of "keeping America safe," if that phrase means dismantling what this nation stood for on its founding.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin
Follow Taylor on Twitter, where next Monday she will be covering a foreign policy forum: US-SAUDI Relations in a World Without Equilibrium, with a liveblogging report of the event available.
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There is a general problem with accountability. No one wants to own their behavior. It is fundamentally corrupt. The ultimate view of this displacement is the idea that Americans can do no wrong and shouldn't be responsible for anything. It is the ultimate in imperialism and adolenscent immaturity. It needs to end.
Reading the article and the comments here I am once again amazed that most are missing the import of what was stated in the article.
LISTEN:
Our Nations founding was a declaration that some Truths are self evident, like the fact that a person is alive means they are endowed by our Creator with inalienable rights and that "We the people" are going to live up to those self evident Truths.
Being a Nation dedicated to that proposition entails certain responsibilities.
The chiefest of these is to uphold environments that believe in those same Truths.
Acting in any manner that doesn't uphold those self evident Truths, makes anyone craven, and quite possibly a traitor.
That is the Single Most Important aspect of what it means to be an American.
That is why we have gone around the world in wrong and correct ways being the savior etc.
That is why we can and must hold our leaders and servants to account when they abjure our Constitution.
It is hard to be honorable.
Even, it can require us to sacrifice our lives and those of our loved ones.
Anything could be the price.
But not our belief in inalienable rights.
That is a price far too high.
It would make us all be like George Bush and Dick Cheney, craven,
Willing to give over our Highest Standards for the sake of FEAR.
Father forgive them, after we prosecute them.
Ben Franklin has always been greatly respected in the household I grew up in. Amen to what he said. What is the point of stooping to the same level of your enemies if you love freedom? Study the Middle Ages of Europe and you will learn all about heretics being tortured, burned at the stake, and witch hunts. Do we really need to turn back to that era of insanity to protect ourselves from terrorists?
I was working at my job in NY on 9/11 and I do believe the true criminals should be punished. Last time I heard, they were hiding in Afghanistan. So why did we waste time looking for them on a lie in Iraq? Trial by your peers, innocent until proven guilty, is what our government was founded upon.
One thing taught to us as American's is that for some time we have been seen and thought ourselves to be the defenders and saviours of all. That is why we are called upon by anyone and all to right the injustices of the world. We have always been seen as the holders of the money, the military and the ability to go and do for any place in the world and have done so. When there is conflict we are somehow expected to be super heros and sweep in an solve the injustice like a superhero in the comics would. Where does these thoughts come from? But when our own government invaded a country based on the lies of the president/vice president and attorney general along with Rumsfield we are powerless to stop it. We were attacked on our own soil and with the exception of making airlines a bit more trouble to get onto, what else has been done to make us safer? The very same airlines which we shed shoes for and our cosmetics must be smaller have their cargo parts full of potential bombs and other weapons and the other potential targets are open for terrorists.
Thank you, Taylor.
Where is our outrage at the Rule of Law being thrown overboard? During the Bush years, you only got prosecuted if the politics allowed it. Are we going to continue those mistakes?
When Nixon did it, he broke the law and should have gone to prison.
When Reagan did it, he broke the law and should have gone to prison.
When Bush and all the president's men did it, they broke the law and should go to prison.
Look in the face of every black man in prison and ask them if the rule of law still exists in America.
And ask every Republican: "Do you believe in the Rule of law if it means YOU have to go to prison?"
And ask every Democrat: "Do you believe in the rule of law regardless of who has to go to prison?"
Prosecute them all, let the Gods sort them out (Pantheistic BattleStar reference).
How did this country get to the point that "being safe" was paramount to the very foundation of law that makes up this country? How is it that we are even having a debate as to what to do about something that is illegal according to our laws and according to international laws that we were party to creating? How is that we were justified in prosecuting and executing people from other countries for doing what we have euphemistically termed "enhanced interrogation techniques"? How is it that anyone can say that those who created the policies should go free while two NCO's sit in prison right now for executing those policies? If Lindsay England and Charles Greiner broke the law, didn't shrub, darth, addington, yoo and bybee also break the law?
If we leave this festering sore untended, it will not get better. When Ford pardoned Nixon, Cheney and Addington and Rumsfeld were there and took note of the lack of accountability. When their time came around again, look what they did. Who is watching now and what worse things can they potentially do if they think there will be no accountability?
How come no one ever ask these republican talking heads, If waterboarding works so good than why can't we get them to tell us were the W.M.D.s are.?
I am sure that it has been apparent for years that whatever Saddam threatened was false and hollow threats. If only we had known that then instead of now.
No way, you mean after 4000+ of our finest, tens of thousands of Iraqis, Abu Ghraib, the distruction of Fullouji and Haditha, and no W.M.D.s. Sad,
As I remember Saddam kept insisting that he did'nt have wmd, I think your boy Bush just got impatient and decided to invade, which was all pre-arranged anyhow.
Interesting how according to the media wanting torturers punished is considered a "far left" opinion.
That is because the "Far Right" OWNS the media.
Brick
I have often wondered why being 'safe' was more important to American citizens than being free? To those that need to feed absolutely 'safe', go bury yourself in a bunker and quake with fear at every sound. To those that need to feel 'free', prove yourself courageous and dismantle the survellience society that spies on you and your family. I am willing to die for my freedoms. Neither terrorists or Republicans will sacrifice my freedom without a fight.
I am not worried about being spied on. I don't care if they want to wire tap my phone. I have nothing to hide and I don't feel as if it inhibits my freedom by them doing so.
Name me one American that suffered from what you call illegal activities during the past 8 years, please. Please just one.
Aren't we always mad when a criminal gets off on a technicality?
I agree with former President Bush on this one wholeheartedly.
The Taliban and Al Qaeda do not deserve the rights of the Geneva Convention when they ignore it themselves. That doesn't mean we need to turn into neanderthals but his memo addressed this. We will still treat them humanely.
How many lives were saved by information gained from these so called harsh interrogations? How many civilians have the Taliban and Al Qaeda killed, beheaded, used as shields? How many mosques have they endangered because they hide weapons amond the faithful?
All of these actions are against the Geneva Convention as well and so is fighting without a uniform and targeting civilians.
We are much better than them and didn't stoop to their level.
Thank you President Bush for both keeping us safe and free from tyranny.
How about the republican party, they suffered.
If you've nothing to hide from wiretapping, do you at least worry there's no oversight to it? They couldn't misuse info? Any credit-card or other personal data you have? If you still feel there's nothing to worry about, you want the name of someone who has suffered, ask innocent people locked up in Gitmo we can't seem to prove did anything, some of whom we've released. Ah, but you said American. Telling. Ok, ask liberal churches and groups who were spied upon for political reasons. Need a name? Rep Jane Harman.
And we follow Geneva-Convention because that's what we'd want others to do. Because we've prosecuted others for not following it. The fact that we didn't just makes us AS BAD as they are. I always thought, as noted above, that we were better. Now we've no defense if they want to torture us. What're we going to say? Don't do it even though we have? 0 lives were saved from it BTW, because we can't believe what info we did get, and who's to say we couldn't have gotten it otherwise? Prove a negative.
24 is TV, not reality. Ask any expert, they will tell you that it doesn't work in real life. As for Bush keeping us safe, everything I've read says thanks to things like this, we're LESS safe. Not to mention 9/11, he didn't keep us safe from that did he? "Bin Laden Determined To Strike" anyone?
Would you feel the same way if your government turned into a dictatorship and the government decided they did not particularly like what you said in that conversation of yours that was wiretapped and they came knocking down your door in the middle of the night to take you away with no right of habeous corpus? That is what things like this can lead to. When this first came out, I was outraged about it. When you shrug the laws, you are leaving yourself open to government taking the next step. And considering Mr. Bush got his permission slip to effectively make himself a dictator, we were a hair's breadth from going down that road.
Our LAWS prohibit torture. There are treaties we have signed - the Geneva Conventions - wherein we agree we will NOT TORTURE. Water boarding someone 6 times a day is NOT HUMANE. The Taliban and AlQaeda did not sign onto the Conventions, WE DID.
I will gladly die in a terrorist attack (and I have said this many times over the last 6 years), rather than lose the liberties provided by our Constitution. They are more important to me that my own life or even those of my loved ones. They are what makes us AMERICANS, not fearful or fear mongering blathering idiots.
As an American living overseas I suffered greatly for what the Bush Administration did. Harassed, scorned, spat on, abused.
Get a passport and go somewhere. Figure out we're part of a global community.
Nice to see you again, Taylor.
However, mushy thinking.
Illegal?
I don't think many Americans would be willing to die for the right of gay Americans to enjoy equal protection under the laws. Quite the opposite. A majority of Americans in a majority of the states have willingly prohibited gays from entering into same sex marriages. Besides most Americans are probably just fine with the restrictions placed on gays in the military. Don't ask, don't tell is still the law of the land.
I'm guessing not for much longer.
Ever think about how differant the invasion of Iraq would have turned out if only Bush would have waited until we got authorization from the U.N. security council and went into Iraq as a multi-national force instead of four rouge countrys ( U.S., Great Btitain, Australia, and Poland) Illegally conducting a war of aggression on a sovereign nation (Iraq). We would have actually have had to abide by the Geneva convention rules.
Ever think about how different the state of the union would be today if we had NOT gone into Iraq?
We were never, ever, ever going to get authorization from the UN, and the Bush Administration knew it. So did Blair. It wouldn't have happened, and the war itself was illegal. The torture should be really no surprise.
That administration washed its hands of a moral compass because we were attacked on 9-11. War-mongers, liars, thieves, bullies, criminals, the whole lot of them.
I wouldn't die for any country...but I would maybe die defending what's left of our Constitution, if need be..!
Like my Sargent use to say," its not up to the American solder to die for his country, its up to him to make the other guy die for his country.
Your sergeant was quoting Patton.
Exactly so. What would we save if we became no better than those who mean us ill?
There are many reasons conservatives would not die for this country.
First and foremost, however, is that they don't consider America to be THEIR country. They are either separatists who think they are only citizens of their state, or else they are Confederates who are awaiting the day the South will rise again.
And second is pretty blunt- they are just cowards. Many conservatives described Iraq as "The Definitive Struggle Of Our Time... and yet the extent of their bravery and will to defend their beliefs only extended out to waging war with their keyboards. You'd have an easier time getting a pig to fly than in getting a Young Republican to join the military.
The conservative view is that sacrifice is for suckers.
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