More

Tim Berry

Tim Berry

Posted: October 3, 2007 06:42 PM

What? Women Working? Choice? Time Warp!


Talk about shock and awe! I thought the arguments about choice had to do with abortion, but no, apparently there's deep division about women working. Here I was thinking Y2K happened seven years ago, and yet, the comments to USA Today's Mommy Wars feature -- 266 as I write this and still coming strong -- are amazing.

I had no idea we had people in this country literate enough to type and send a Web comment who are still living in the 19th century.

The premise of the story, simple enough, is that working women struggle with the dilemma of career vs. taking care of children. I was interested in the story from the moment it came out because that's my daughter and two of my grandsons in the color picture. She is CEO of Palo Alto Software and I'm proud of her.

Now I'm fascinated, but not in a good way fascinated, more like the fascination you get from the exaggerated Deliverance characters. Is there really that much of this kind of thinking still out there, today? Maybe I've been on the West Coast too long.

Take the following comment as an example:

How can you be a CEO and a Mom at the same time? My experience with mothers, especially new ones, is that they never stop talking about their kids. So one can conclude that a "Mommy Ceo" sits around at work and talks about kids all day. Also women are inherently emotional and good businesses are not run on emotions, bad ones are. Personally I'm not going to listen to a CEO or respect one that is nursing a child. Women belong in the home, not playing CEO. Its not play time this is the real world, stop making business decisions and start making peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for your kids. Come on.

They go on and on like that. I'm 59 years old, and I thought women working was my mother's crusade, not my daughter's.

Follow Tim Berry on Twitter: www.twitter.com/Timberry

 
 
  • Comments
  • 17
  • Pending Comments
  • 0
  • View FAQ
Comments are closed for this entry
View All
Recency  | 
Popularity
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
rlehman
09:42 AM on 10/10/2007
No, women can't have it all. Nor can men. But, families can have better when we honor real family values. Our family life is possible because we live in a multi-generational household. My daughters can pursue their education and their career life because I'm here to take care of the grandkids. I can pursue my interests in tutoring and mentoring because my daughters are here to take care of their younger sister.

My husband and I have time to pursue our common passions because we don't have to use up all our 'spare' time with household chores as they are divided among a family of ten. Living in a multi-generational household means that when the bank account is in the negative and we need milk someone can come up with four dollars. It also means that no one person is more responsible than any other for the health and welfare of the family as a whole.

But, that family puts us between a rock and a hard place in other ways. It makes it difficult for us to find housing that isn't outrageously expensive and we have come up against ordinances that prohibit 'multi-family' housing. We signed the lease on one six bedroom, two bath house and then the landlord told us he couldn't rent it to us as the neighbors had complained that we weren't one family. Our grandchildren, our adult daughters and our over 18 foster meant the city sided with the neighbors. At one point it meant a fight with the power company over giving out the social security numbers of every adult member of the family.

Family values to us means valuing family. People who band together for the rearing and care of children and their elders. It doesn't mean being anti-choice, anti-gay marriage, or any of those other moral and personal issues. What it does mean is valuing and putting the walk to the talk about children and the elderly.
09:41 AM on 10/10/2007
I've been away from the States too long, articles like this shock me.

My hubby and I each get 6 months parental leave at 80% of our salarys and either of us can continue working at only 30 hours a week and maintain our positions until our kids are 8. There are national standards. Combined we get 430 days leave and each parent has 2 months that only they can claim.

That's how many European countries deal with this family raising issue and I think it's extraordinary. Neither of us discuss giving up careers or changing lifestyle paths just because we want to have a family. We can do both.

Male or Female.

The US is one of about 12 countries that do not offer any kind of national parental leave program and women are paying the price.

It's a shame how backwards things are becoming, I want to be able to give my kids a stable home and family life while working. I want to go back to the US to start a family, but the more I read and the more I speak with my friends, we might stay here a little longer.
10:21 AM on 10/05/2007
Tim -- You beat me to this post! I was going to write about it here, too. To your post, I'd only add: "I thought women working was my mother's crusade, not my daughter's"....or, well, MINE.

p.s. Cute grandkids. : )
11:58 PM on 10/04/2007
I don't think it's still in the crusade stage, so much as smoothing out the wrinkles of a dialogue. Women, great communicators that we are, want peace among each other and the ability to understand each other's decision. Sometimes a mom has to say, "I would never work, and you shouldn't either" before it can evolve to "maybe I'd actually like to work, I wish I could do both". Eventually society will get the cogs straight and women will manage to have it all.
08:20 PM on 10/04/2007
I find Europe to be quite different in attitudes about raising children. Never mind that Mommy CEO can pay for the nanny, etc. Yes, kids actually play sports here in Poland, gasp... after school. Americans truly do not know how screwed the system is in America. Most do not get out much. Too busy trying to "just get by" in the American "Dream" turned "Nightmare".

Last time I was in Vegas, kids were mostly interested in getting drunk and black tar heroin has been available in Green Valley High School since 1996. What a difference.

I digress. Some feminist came out here to Poland. Did not get her name. She started telling young women about what feminism is all about. They did not like it. Two comments repeated over and over again were: "We want to be beautiful." and "Why do you look like a man?" Point of fact, women here are professionals in all fields. You give them your respect.

I know two married co-workers here. The guy's wife walked up to him one day and told him point blank that she wanted to have children. Nothing he could do but say yes. Children are viewed less as an expense and more as children here.

The funny thing is, among every Western man I have met here, women in Eastern Europe are more mature for their age than the average Western "woman". Being poor is a great motivator.

Do not get me wrong. I believe in women's rights. Mommy CEO here is a myth for most Americans. It is good for her that she is able to do her job and have kids. Kudos to her. Now walk down to the poorer sections of your town or city and ask mothers there if they can afford day care. CEO pay for private school? Affordable healthcare for a mother earning minimum wage? Flex time? Hah! No. No. Medicaid, maybe. And No. What a "Dream".

The European model is far from perfect. Compared to the American model, this is Paradise for single mothers.
11:59 PM on 10/04/2007
Oh, then you must not know, very, that in America, we try not to promote single motherhood.

Yes, I'm being sarcastic.

I think affordable, even govt provided childcare, flex time, and universal healthcare should be among our top priorities. That, I'm being sincere about.
05:53 PM on 10/04/2007
First of all, why is it that we never have this conversation about men? It's not good for children to have their fathers working and never home either. Why is it so easy for men to catch a break from the kids?

Second of all, my mother worked, and it was good for her, my brother and me, too! She was a teacher who kept my mind and world open to endless possibilities. Every Christmas, I was given an ethnic babydoll to keep internalized inferiority at bay. Even the Christmas when I was five and received a minibasketball. It helped (my mother) that there was good, affordable daycare. Once I started school, I stayed with my grandparents after school. Grandma wasn't your average stay-at-home wife and mother (She had to manage the family business.), and she supported even my wildest dreams. Though, looking back, she might've been holding back laughter.

It is 2007. I refuse to rehash old wars just because of 9/11. Especially when domesticity is being promoted under the premise of a culture war. (I read a piece on Falubi on Slate.) I'll hit someone on the head like in the V8 ads. As MarilyBB states, it's not a simple question with a simple answer. It is, however, a personal question that only that woman and her husband should hagel with.
photo
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
kellygrrrl
05:27 PM on 10/04/2007
I think the load of crap message we've been feeding to women and girls needs to be clarified.

you cannot HAVE it all
you cannot BE it all
you cannot DO it all.

Life is a series of options. That means CHOICES and TRADE-OFFs
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
TucsonEd
01:15 PM on 10/04/2007
Amy Goodman's guest on Democracy today is social critic Susan Faludi who authored "The Terror Dream- Fear & Fantasy in America post 9/11"
In her new book, leading social critic and Pulitzer-winning journalist Susan Faludi examines the cultural impact of the 9/11 attacks and concludes that the United States has been living in a myth since. She explores how the attacks led to the denigration of women here in the United States, the magnification of manly men and the call for greater domesticity. Faludi joins us to take about the Bush administration’s use of feminism to launch the war on Afghanistan; the case of Private Jessica Lynch; the Republican “W. Stands for Women” campaign, and more.

You can read the transcript at http://democracynow.org/
01:40 PM on 10/04/2007
Yes, TusconEd, I heard that excellent interview on "Democracy Now" with Susan Faludi.

Her work also explains much of the jingoism and love of war in the United States, a country founded in large part, on FEAR of "The Other" (non-whites, non-males, non-Christians) - you have only to look at your average gated suburban development or "planned" (*cough* People's Republic of Irvine (California) *cough*) community to see this
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
MarilynBB
Marilyn Barnicke Belleghem M.Ed.
11:50 AM on 10/04/2007
It is hard for mothers to leave their children if there is no reliable quality daycare and companies are inflexible about working hours. The responsibility to raise emotionally and physically healthy children tends to fall on mothers rather than fathers and society as a whole. People who choose not to have children will want to have people in the work force when they are ready to retire but are often the least supportive of parents and tolerant of children. For every family there are many reasons for choosing when a woman returns to the workforce. It isn't a simple question with easy answers. It is however, often women who are hardest on moms who have made the best choice they can make for their family. Many working women can't understand the choice to stay home and many stay at home moms can't understand why any mom could ever leave their children. It is by supporting parents to raise their children that we will improve society in a profound way!
11:50 AM on 10/04/2007
It is often the C-level executives who have enough clout to negotiate a family-friendly schedule and I say "Good for her/him!"
It's a lot harder for the front-line, hourly workers. Kudo's to the employers who are willing to use job sharing and flex schedules so that moms and dads can take care of their families.
If you are concerned about American families, contact your representatives and ask them to override the Presiden't SCHIP veto. This will do more good than continuing the endless debate about whether women should work or not.
anon004
With this moniker, you were expecting a picture?
09:57 PM on 10/03/2007
There are legitimate issues around the time parents working outside the home get to spend with their children, and the flexibility of some workplaces regarding parents' needs. There are also legitimate issues regarding the discrimination against employees who don't have children being required to "cover" for those who do. None of these issues are advanced by the comments you quoted. The anger around this issue never fails to astonish me. The thoughtlessness of some of the people who comment on it is staggering.
12:04 AM on 10/05/2007
I think those w/out kids should get bonus pay when they cover for those w/kids. It's only fair. But, only when they cover. Not in some kinda funky discrimination since.

What do you think about affordable childcare? Govt provided childcare, even? You know, it's a benefit to everyone, not only parents, when children have a safe place to stay while their parents work.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
mommadona
I paint. I blog. Therefore, I am.
09:57 PM on 10/03/2007
You haven't been following that new "Protestant Movement" have you?

Instead of barefoot and pregnant?
SUV and Pregnant...
Choices? Choices?
"Our women don't need no stinkin' choices...cause we say so"
~very insecure men who still believe in a talking snake and 'rapture' (no, not THAT kind of rapture....uh uh...that's dirty)
09:23 PM on 10/03/2007
If you hadn't noticed, we're fighting the all of 18th and 19th century battles again. One of the factors is globalization. We're now competing against child and slave labor. Another is religious fundamentalism. The three main Abrahamic religions are all patriarchal hierarchies. Praise the lord and pass me the cheap DVD player. Get your biscuits in the oven and your buns in the bed!
07:21 PM on 10/03/2007
Is that comment a part of the article? Unreal!