Never Again

What moral scale could the administration and Harry Reid possibly be using for not wanting to adequately and immediately determine which former government officials either sanctified or urged the CIA to torture? If these same former officials had sexually harassed their subordinates or falsified travel reports and pocketed even just tens of thousands of dollars would they still recommend that we just shrug and move on?

It seems that the enormity of the crimes that were committed in the name of this Republic has clouded the moral compass of some of our current leaders.

Sure, I'm a liberal and would love nothing more than to see justice served to those who ordered torture, lied us into a war in Iraq for the gain of their private armies and petrodollars and, by the way, stole an election. If I had one wish it would be to see Dick Cheney in an orange jumpsuit lifting weights in the big yard.

But no one is talking about the full-scale accountability that a truly healthy democracy would demand after such a reign of terror.

The least we can do now, all Americans, regardless of political stripe, is to stand up and say, "Torture? Never again." The Obama administration is usually so adept at looking forward to their historical relevance and legacy. The crimes that were urged and condoned are so profoundly un-American that to ignore them now is to forever lose a chunk of our essence as a democracy.

Where I totally agree with the president is in not prosecuting the individuals at the CIA. We need a high-functioning CIA now more than ever. If the Pakistani government continues to lay down like the Weimar Republic while the Taliban overruns their country then it seems not unreasonable to assume that sometime in the next two years the Taliban will take control of all of Pakistan and the "Overseas Contingency Operation" formerly known as the "War on Terror" will then be called the "Pakistan/Afghanistan War."

And we will have come full circle from 9/11, now fighting a Taliban hundreds of times stronger than they were back then. The question the next time will be can we fight an extremist enemy without becoming one ourselves.

Comments

[writerroz]

How can we say this should never happen again if we do not thoroghly investigate every possibility of who knew about the torture? It this implicates some Democrats, then so be it, because how can we ever fully trust that any elected officials who looked the other way will look the right way when our safety depends on the same people to be truthful. Let their heads roll and let's get on with bringing our country out of the Bush/Cheney sewer. Honest leaders will be stronger if we root out the weak and ineffective leaders, even if Pelosi and Reid get tossed out in the tumble.

The CIA needs a housecleaning too if any of them caved in to Bush/Cheney, or they'll cave in to demands of other dictators.

It seems that Cheney is one who needs buttons pushed, since he is already showing signs of extreme nervousness, meaning he is in it up to his flapping, one-sided mouth. We will stand along side of prosecution of Cheney, and Bush too. But we must push very hard on the honest people in this administration to carry on. Investigate and prosecute.

[rick390]

By saying that the CIA gets a pass for its part in the torture process because we need them in Pakistan is endorsing the idea that the "ends justify the means". WRONG. The CIA agents may deserve absolution because they operated under the assumption that the "torture" they practiced had been sanctioned by credible legal authority but not due to some perceived notion that they are indispensable.

[ObjectiveRealist]

I hope that both you and President Obama will reconsider your proposed carte blanch for the "just following orders" defense.

quote:
Where I totally agree with the president is in not prosecuting the individuals at the CIA. We need a high-functioning CIA now more than ever. If the Pakistani government continues to lay down like the Weimar Republic while the Taliban overruns their country then it seems not unreasonable to assume that sometime in the next two years the Taliban will take control of all of Pakistan and the "Overseas Contingency Operation" formerly known as the "War on Terror" will then be called the "Pakistan/­Afghanista­n War."
/quote

If so many CIA agents are torturers that prosecuting torture, whoever committed it, would substantially affect the strength of the agency, then we have too many dirty agents already running around in free society with advanced military and espionage skills, a huge threat to our republic. If, on the other, the agent who would obey an order to torture is rare and the average agent is a good person and true "asset" to the country, then morale in the agency will be improved by the prosecution of the bad apples. In any case, prosecuting torture is not _merely_ the right thing to do, it is as tactically superior to forgiving torture as adhering to the Geneva Conventions in the first place would have been superior to the torture policy of the Bush/Cheney administration.

[Solja]

So the guards who were found guilty and arrested for torture should get out of jail now, right? I don't care WHO goes down, so long as the people who violated US laws are prosecuted. I understand that people were told that it was legal, so in that case, the young lady and her co-torturers should be released under the policy of the not prosecuting those who were following orders.

I especially want Rumsfeld, Cheney, Rice, AND Bush to be punished for authorizing torture. That's the ONLY thing out of all of this mess that would satisfy me. All of them authorized it so all of them must be punished for breaking US and international laws on torture.

[snydersweb]

Cmon, Dick Cheney lifting weights in the excersize yard? More likely shooting skeet. Get it right. There was no personal gain in us going to war in Iraq unless you consider our safety here at home a gain. What do you think? The GH-4 Effect

[janeypearl]

Agree completely, but the part I LOVE is the picture of Dick Cheney in an orange jumpsuit lifting weights in the big yard. That would truly be justice.

[E1k]

Trey...
Could it be that Harry Reid's moral compass is a bit rusty from going along to get along on waterboarding. Could it be that a true investigation would reveal that the Bush administration advanced the "Crimes Against Humanity", but the Democratic leadership just decided it was better to keep quite about it then, not to look like weenies on National Defense, but all the while knowing full well what was going on?
Could it be the Obama administration is getting its VERY BAD advice not to fully investigate from the very people who would be investigated?
Could be....

[Solja]

In case you hadn't seen the latest news from Momma Pelosi, she said, "Congress was NOT told that the US was torturing people."

[reallyenuff]

I'm not so sure it's been on purpose, but think about how things have come to at this point:

1) R's (I know of no Dems - am I wrong?) are actually defending torture... TORTURE (on tape)!
2) A significant number of citizens (if not the majority) want to see investigations, if not prosecution.
3) No one can sat the POTUS making this partisan, at least publicly strongly discouraging retribution.
4) He's releasing memos/phot­os... giving citizens the chance to declare what they want?

Considering the above, this can't end too many ways; the Bush administration may want to join Bernie Madoff in signing up for how to survive behind bars seminars.

As for POTUS, if he really is playing chess here, to him I say, "I salute you Jedi Master" - he's been underestimated a FEW times before.

[newshawk14]

I have to agree with you Mr. Ellis, let congress and the justice dept. continue to investigate, and
if crimes have been committed, then let us prosecute, even if it goes as high as the former
POTUS and VP. It will serve as an object lesson to both parties, that they have to act within
the law. I'm not so sure about excusing CIA operatives who broke the law, with a tissue of legal
cover, remember these are the same people who provided Latin American governments with
lists of "leftists", many of whom were tortured and killed.

[paixa3]

..and have installed many dictators who were put in place by the CIA, even though they were legally elected. Chile 1973.. Nicaraugua­...others?

[newshawk14]

One of the reasons, I would like to see congress perform the preliminary
investigations, is that then the public can see why the matter might need
to be persued further. I don't know if the AG would release a report, but if a
special prosecutor is appointed too soon , (it would be under seal) you
don't have time to build public support, for what will be painful.

[S1m0n]

It's not a moral scale. It's political. The White House wants the american people to own the investigation and prosecution. If the administration goes ahead and orders one, it will be said forever that this was Obama's vendetta against the GOP. If a public outcry forces a 'reluctant' White House to convene and investigation, however, it'll be the people's investigation. That's what the president wants to happen.

To get there, he's putting incriminating info on the public record. This is information he doesn't HAVE to release; he could have left it classified. The fact that he hasn't, & that he has resisted fierce pressure from the CIA to do so shows that he is not at all ambivallent about this. Don't watch what he says, watch what he does. What he's doing is ensuring that the truth gets out.

[Balzac]

Bush and Cheney should turn themselves in to the authorities. They've undermined our national security, and I cannot believe it wasn't deliberate treason. Nobody could be dumb enough to do what they did as an accident. They wanted us to get attacked then and they want us to get attacked now.

[NYJ1627]

Here's the bottomline (IMHO): Our American way of life changed big-time over the past 8 years. Our foreign imperialism took stronger hold and the Constitution was thrown in the sewer. All by a group of GOP, pseudo-fau­x-patriots who know how to play a dumbed-down populace like a fine tuned violin. Simple as that.

The true powers-that-be will force PO to break lots of promises if he wants to get ANYTHING done. Those powers will allow only so much "change" before they explain what will happen to him if he tries to go too far.

Lastly, the GOP will scream louder and they will prevail. And there will be NO investigations of criminal behavior in the White House between 2001 and 2008.

If it had been a Democratic White House that did something wrong in their eyes (maybe something as horrible as a physical tryst or two by a President) they would hold their investigations; deflect anything good that President was trying to do; and get their impeachment come hell or high water. That, sadly, is a given in America today. The GOP calls the shots...in victory or in defeat.

That's the difference in America and you can take this to the bank: the GOP will kick ass MUCH more than my pathetically wimp-ass Democratic Party. Ask yourself "why is this?" and "why will it never change?" My answer: look to our ingrained culture for the answer.

[Balzac]

Defeatism will not lead to victory. We cannot be defeated. Grab glory!

[sshaler]

Resorting to the fantasy of American/U­n-American is holding the US in a dangerous paralysis. Everything that happened and is happening in the US is 'American'. It's always been 'American' to torture and dominate other countries. Look back to the torture of African American slaves and the undercover assassinations of the CIA fomenting unrest in a lot of countries; of US soldiers throwing prisoners of war out of airplanes and 'destroying villages to save them' in Vietnam. The argument that a practice is Un-American says nothing about it's morality or legality. An unflinching look in the mirror is the only path to freedom.

[indyleftist]

"Where I totally agree with the president is in not prosecuting the individuals at the CIA. We need a high-functioning CIA now more than ever. If the Pakistani government continues to lay down like the Weimar Republic while the Taliban overruns their country then it seems not unreasonable to assume that sometime in the next two years the Taliban will take control of all of Pakistan"

So you think people who have been caught torturing not only shouldn't be prosecuted but shouldn't even be fired from their job as interrogators
And you justify this by some nonsensical claim about how the Taliban is going to overthrow the government of Pakistan. And therefore we are going to need to start torturing I guess?

[wonketteRAWKS]

Are you saying that if the problem in Pakistan, or similar ones did not exist, that we then could hold the lower eschelon responsible as well, but because "we need the CIA more than ever" that we should now investigate?