What moral scale could the administration and Harry Reid possibly be using for not wanting to adequately and immediately determine which former government officials either sanctified or urged the CIA to torture? If these same former officials had sexually harassed their subordinates or falsified travel reports and pocketed even just tens of thousands of dollars would they still recommend that we just shrug and move on?
It seems that the enormity of the crimes that were committed in the name of this Republic has clouded the moral compass of some of our current leaders.
Sure, I'm a liberal and would love nothing more than to see justice served to those who ordered torture, lied us into a war in Iraq for the gain of their private armies and petrodollars and, by the way, stole an election. If I had one wish it would be to see Dick Cheney in an orange jumpsuit lifting weights in the big yard.
But no one is talking about the full-scale accountability that a truly healthy democracy would demand after such a reign of terror.
The least we can do now, all Americans, regardless of political stripe, is to stand up and say, "Torture? Never again." The Obama administration is usually so adept at looking forward to their historical relevance and legacy. The crimes that were urged and condoned are so profoundly un-American that to ignore them now is to forever lose a chunk of our essence as a democracy.
Where I totally agree with the president is in not prosecuting the individuals at the CIA. We need a high-functioning CIA now more than ever. If the Pakistani government continues to lay down like the Weimar Republic while the Taliban overruns their country then it seems not unreasonable to assume that sometime in the next two years the Taliban will take control of all of Pakistan and the "Overseas Contingency Operation" formerly known as the "War on Terror" will then be called the "Pakistan/Afghanistan War."
And we will have come full circle from 9/11, now fighting a Taliban hundreds of times stronger than they were back then. The question the next time will be can we fight an extremist enemy without becoming one ourselves.
The CIA needs a housecleaning too if any of them caved in to Bush/Cheney, or they'll cave in to demands of other dictators.
It seems that Cheney is one who needs buttons pushed, since he is already showing signs of extreme nervousness, meaning he is in it up to his flapping, one-sided mouth. We will stand along side of prosecution of Cheney, and Bush too. But we must push very hard on the honest people in this administration to carry on. Investigate and prosecute.
quote:
Where I totally agree with the president is in not prosecuting the individuals at the CIA. We need a high-functioning CIA now more than ever. If the Pakistani government continues to lay down like the Weimar Republic while the Taliban overruns their country then it seems not unreasonable to assume that sometime in the next two years the Taliban will take control of all of Pakistan and the "Overseas Contingency Operation" formerly known as the "War on Terror" will then be called the "Pakistan/Afghanistan War."
/quote
If so many CIA agents are torturers that prosecuting torture, whoever committed it, would substantially affect the strength of the agency, then we have too many dirty agents already running around in free society with advanced military and espionage skills, a huge threat to our republic. If, on the other, the agent who would obey an order to torture is rare and the average agent is a good person and true "asset" to the country, then morale in the agency will be improved by the prosecution of the bad apples. In any case, prosecuting torture is not _merely_ the right thing to do, it is as tactically superior to forgiving torture as adhering to the Geneva Conventions in the first place would have been superior to the torture policy of the Bush/Cheney administration.
I especially want Rumsfeld, Cheney, Rice, AND Bush to be punished for authorizing torture. That's the ONLY thing out of all of this mess that would satisfy me. All of them authorized it so all of them must be punished for breaking US and international laws on torture.
Could it be that Harry Reid's moral compass is a bit rusty from going along to get along on waterboarding. Could it be that a true investigation would reveal that the Bush administration advanced the "Crimes Against Humanity", but the Democratic leadership just decided it was better to keep quite about it then, not to look like weenies on National Defense, but all the while knowing full well what was going on?
Could it be the Obama administration is getting its VERY BAD advice not to fully investigate from the very people who would be investigated?
Could be....
1) R's (I know of no Dems - am I wrong?) are actually defending torture... TORTURE (on tape)!
2) A significant number of citizens (if not the majority) want to see investigations, if not prosecution.
3) No one can sat the POTUS making this partisan, at least publicly strongly discouraging retribution.
4) He's releasing memos/photos... giving citizens the chance to declare what they want?
Considering the above, this can't end too many ways; the Bush administration may want to join Bernie Madoff in signing up for how to survive behind bars seminars.
As for POTUS, if he really is playing chess here, to him I say, "I salute you Jedi Master" - he's been underestimated a FEW times before.
if crimes have been committed, then let us prosecute, even if it goes as high as the former
POTUS and VP. It will serve as an object lesson to both parties, that they have to act within
the law. I'm not so sure about excusing CIA operatives who broke the law, with a tissue of legal
cover, remember these are the same people who provided Latin American governments with
lists of "leftists", many of whom were tortured and killed.
investigations, is that then the public can see why the matter might need
to be persued further. I don't know if the AG would release a report, but if a
special prosecutor is appointed too soon , (it would be under seal) you
don't have time to build public support, for what will be painful.
To get there, he's putting incriminating info on the public record. This is information he doesn't HAVE to release; he could have left it classified. The fact that he hasn't, & that he has resisted fierce pressure from the CIA to do so shows that he is not at all ambivallent about this. Don't watch what he says, watch what he does. What he's doing is ensuring that the truth gets out.
The true powers-that-be will force PO to break lots of promises if he wants to get ANYTHING done. Those powers will allow only so much "change" before they explain what will happen to him if he tries to go too far.
Lastly, the GOP will scream louder and they will prevail. And there will be NO investigations of criminal behavior in the White House between 2001 and 2008.
If it had been a Democratic White House that did something wrong in their eyes (maybe something as horrible as a physical tryst or two by a President) they would hold their investigations; deflect anything good that President was trying to do; and get their impeachment come hell or high water. That, sadly, is a given in America today. The GOP calls the shots...in victory or in defeat.
That's the difference in America and you can take this to the bank: the GOP will kick ass MUCH more than my pathetically wimp-ass Democratic Party. Ask yourself "why is this?" and "why will it never change?" My answer: look to our ingrained culture for the answer.
So you think people who have been caught torturing not only shouldn't be prosecuted but shouldn't even be fired from their job as interrogators
And you justify this by some nonsensical claim about how the Taliban is going to overthrow the government of Pakistan. And therefore we are going to need to start torturing I guess?