Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

-Jesus, Matthew 10:34-36

When my Gen Y friend Michael confessed publicly that he couldn't believe any longer, it cost him a full ride scholarship and all of his friends but three. But that wasn't the worst of it. Michael had to make a choice: He could stay in his parents' home only if he refrained from "spiritual pornography," meaning any media that were critical of faith. He could stay there only if he kept his doubts muted and invisible. Michael said he couldn't do that and moved out. His mother said it would have been better had he died. His father banned Michael from seeing beloved younger siblings without supervision. (Apparently spiritual pornography can lead to spiritual pedophilia?) Loneliness and despair took him to the brink of suicide.

Michael is warm, funny, and fiercely smart. Today he is back in school at a secular university, going it alone, working his way toward becoming a brain scientist. But the choices he was forced to face and the rejection he experienced are matched in our society only for kids who confess that they are gay.

According to recent Pew data, sixteen percent of Americans say that they don't have a religious affiliation. Other surveys would suggest that most of these still believe in some kind of god, and many probably still identify in some way with Christian teachings. But the fact is, a sizeable number of us no longer ascribe to the faith(s) of our fathers. And for those whose fathers serve a jealous god, the price can be high.

From testimonials at places like exChristian.net; exMormon.org; Faithfreedom.org (leaving Islam) we know that Michael's despair and desperation were not unique. Many who lose religion muddle along in silent shame -- wanting to believe, praying desperately for doubts to be removed, blaming themselves and fending off images of eternal torture before finally giving up the fight. Granted, some lucky few simply flip a bit, but others find themselves dragged reluctantly into an internal conflict takes years.

Most religions implant psychological safeguards against apostasy, little emotional bombs of fear, guilt, shame and self-loathing that get triggered by the mere act of questioning. In religious orthodoxy, doubt is the domain of fools. It is the consequence of having hardened your heart like Pharaoh or resenting God's power like Lucifer. Oh ye of little faith!

Now add to loss and self-loathing a crush of rejection by people who have loved you "unconditionally": friends, cousins, siblings, parents, or even a spouse. When I was a suicidal nineteen-year-old (still a believer), a woman I had looked up to for years, apologized for having counseled me as a Christian when in hindsight I clearly was not. But even now, despite my public apostasy, my family has never cut me off, nor I them. We walk a loving, if uncomfortable line with each other. Our compatibility depends on things not said as much as it depends on conversation, but the common ground is also real.

Not everyone is so lucky. Some families cannot get past revulsion and sense of betrayal they feel toward a member who has literally broken faith. Manifest examples of kindness, integrity, warmth, or generosity get reinterpreted. They were never real -- or the person has changed utterly.

Some former believers, fragile in either their disbelief or their self-worth, can't stand to be in the relentless presence of even unspoken disapproval. Others try to reach out to family members and get turned away with harsh words or silent shunning. Still others face a barrage of re-conversion efforts at any family gathering.

A divorce can get initiated by either side. Either way, it is the renegade who is most likely to end up alone and symptomatic. Think about it: for a person who has already lost a god and consequently a core part of the self, to sever ties with family is an act of desperation or sheer self preservation.

Returning to my earlier comparison with gay kids coming out -- we all know what the worst case scenarios look like. In major cities across the country, outreach programs offer a helping hand to homeless and often self-destructive gay teens, kids who have been given the boot by parents who think they might as well be dead. But who is offering support to kids or adults who lose their religion?

Even among my professional peers, psychologists, far too few understand the depth of harm that can be done to the psyche by fundamentalist religion -- religion that subsumes the individual self to a cult self. The irony is that few mental health professionals are sympathetic to the claims of moral dogma. The practicing therapist is exposed daily to life's caprice: biochemical malfunctions, developmental vagaries, and rotten life circumstances. In contrast to a religious perspective, psychology seeks to understand material and historical roots of symptoms rather than making moral judgments. So the problem is not that the professional world view aligns with a dogmatic world view. It is just that, in the absence of dramatic evidence to the contrary, we are all taught to think of religion as harmless.

It's time to give up the illusion.


 

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Raised Catholic and went to Catholic school for grades 1-6. Did the Altar Boy thing but only because it meant two free trips to the local amusement park annually.

I prayed once in a while and after never seeing any results I figured what's the point.

My point is that I've never been a "true believer" and while I now consider myself a heavily atheist leaning agnostic, I was lucky in a sense that outside of our Sunday forays to church religion was hardly ever discussed at home.

Starting when I was about 9 or 10 years old my parents would let my brothers, sisters and myself go to the early 9:00AM mass while they would go to the 11:00 that was always presided over by the Bishop.

In doing so they would give us a few dollars for the collection plate and we would walk right past the church and go directly to Mcdonalds. After enjoying a 9:00AM filet O fish combo we would walk back to the church, grab a weekly bulletin, put the few coins left from Mcdonalds in the collection slot of the prayer candle setup at the entrance and walk home right on time. This only worked because the few friends my parents had from church always went to the 11:00 mass, so there was no one to tell on us.

Since I never really believed in the 1st place I haven't had to overcome any emotional baggage myself, but can certainly empathize with those who have.

In being a mostly non believer for all of my life I was until recently a live and let live kind of person. I would see the Falwells, Robertsons, Swaggarts etc... make the news and would think to myself, people actually listen to these blowhards and it would fade away in a few hours or so.

It wasn't until the "Intelligent Design" dustup in PA a few years ago that I couldn't take it anymore and what ultimately led me to the Huffingtonpost.

Religion has become so pervasive in politics that it's now my "Mission" in life to re-establish article #6 of the Constitution and BURY the current flavor of the republiCON party in a stack of religious porn.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 03:55 PM on 03/23/2008

We are a clannish brood by nature, us upright, Homo sapiens. Any form of dissention among a clan is reason for suspicion and eventual expulsion. Sniffing out differences is in our crude DNA and since our heads have gotten so much larger than our rationally, evolved intelligence, we are driven by our need to belong to a group for our very survival, at any cost. Those of us who are willing to walk alone and away from such collective conditioning, often feel utterly defeated, with our heads bent downward and our tails some place else. After wondering around alone, we eventually find others who have been expelled from other clans (families) and though each of our reasons may be different, we all share the common experience of going against the core of what we needed to believe in, in order to survive, for a while, anyway. It takes courage to go your own way. It takes courage to out think this human condition.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 02:25 AM on 03/23/2008

Jesus is a lot like Elvis. I love the guy, but the fans really creep me out sometimes.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 09:47 AM on 03/22/2008

I was struck by your point about outreach programs that offer a helping hand to homeless and often self-destructive gay teens and your question, "Who is offering support to kids or adults who lose their religion?"

There is a real need for qualified individuals to offer guidance, support and encouragement to both children and adults who have lost/left their religion. Telling our stories is an important part of this process. My writing partner, Kevin, and I recognize the need for people to have a virtual place to explore and discuss their experiences and questions concerning "coming-out" as atheist or agnostic. Toward that end, we have created a new website, everydayagnostics.com.

Our goal is to help de-stigmatize atheism and agnosticism by showing ordinary people living our lives without the presupposition of a deity. We welcome the stories of individual's de-conversions, as well as how they now find meaning beyond belief.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 12:38 AM on 03/21/2008

Kudos on ya!

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 02:38 AM on 03/21/2008

I agree with Valeri Tarico. Great article! I feel there needs to be a children's bill of right's that protects children from indoctrination into irrational belief systems. It's really emotional abuse of the most insidious kind and sometimes takes a lifetime to recover from. Like other forms of abuse it is passed down from generation to generation. And yes, it clearly has negative consequences for children and for society as a whole. Our survival as a species depends on our bringing the most rational thought processes to bear on the problems which face us. 2000-year-old superstitions have no place in modern society except as quaint historical footnotes.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 10:34 PM on 03/20/2008

A timely post. I haven't had the problems you describe. My family is very liberal and the basic rule was that I could believe as I liked but that I should show up. My parents belonged to a congregation, but my father was generally agnostic, and my mother liked singing in the choir., and when she said she prayed for me, it was with a wink.

These days, the fight for me is to make sure that education does not depend on superstition. I think that peoples' beliefs are an aspect of personality, kind of like their favorite color. These are traits that are not easily subject to reason. It's hard to convince somebody that chocolate is the best flavor if they like vanilla. Religion is like that. It's on the order of an aesthetic choice. My mother could never understand modern art.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 10:10 PM on 03/20/2008

Thank you so much for bringing to light those struggles I had when it came to dealing with christianity for myself. It took years to come to terms and once I did I found a sense of peace that I had never experienced. Not only was there an emotional turmoil to deal with, but also the reactions of devout family members.

While I'm confident my family will never disown me for being an atheist, I still haven't told them. That's mainly because I think it would be painful for them. My rejecting of their religion would be very difficult for them.

Maybe someday I will.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 09:22 PM on 03/20/2008

Thank you Ms Tarico for both the article, and your insight. As a reader of HuffPost, and a member at ExChristian.net I look forward to reading you in the future. When I finally came out as a non-believer, it truly was like coming out as gay all over again. It's not right to have to go through that once, let alone twice.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 05:30 PM on 03/20/2008

The one simple question that stymies most highly religious people is this one: Would you still feel this way if you had been born into another family with another religion? Just about every religiously-oriented person can not accept the simple logic that they believe what they believe because they were told to believe it. Ask another question: If you had been born and died on an island where they had never heard of Jesus Christ/Allah/Krishna/Flying Spaghetti Monster, would you go to Hell? Would that be fair?
Every day I wake up and thank God (yes, God) that I was born to a Catholic and a Jew who were brave enought to let their children make their own decisions regarding what and whom to believe.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 03:04 PM on 03/20/2008

"The one simple question that stymies most highly religious people is this one: Would you still feel this way if you had been born into another family with another religion?"

I was, and I do.

"...they believe what they believe because they were told to believe it."

I have my beliefs because I've seen that they work.

Do you think there is no reason why we are forgetful of God?

The fact that a person is born into a family or society that is ignorant of God is due to the person's past choices. The objection you raise is valid only if you accept the erroneous Biblical idea that life begins at some point in time, such as conception. The Vedic explanation is that life is beginningless. We are eternal spiritual beings in a condition of forgetfulness of God, experiencing countless lifetimes covered by ignorance and illusion until eventually our memory of God will return us to our natural life in His pastimes.

The fact that someone is born on a small island with no sacred scriptures or bona fide religious tradition is of no consequence. It was his own conduct from a previous birth that brought him to that situation, and according to his choices he will be born to a different situation later. If he acts piously, his situation will improve. Eventually by Krishna's mercy he will encounter His devotees, who will awaken his memory that Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, inspire him with their love of God, and naturally give him faith to engage in devotional service.

There is nothing unfair in any of this.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 11:46 AM on 03/21/2008

Fact is no one is going anywhere Heaven nor hell.

This (the present) is the only space-time you, I, and everyone else will *EVER* have the profound pleasure of existing in, and the sooner Humanity comes to that realization the better.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 04:50 PM on 03/20/2008

While reading Valerie"s fine post, I was thinking about the suspense posed by a question in the movie, The General"s Daughter. The question asked was, "What is worse than rape?". I didn"t figure it out because I had never been raped before. The answer is betrayal from someone that was supposed to love you!

I am one of those people that Valerie writes about in the article. When I left the ministry 8 years ago, I had no idea that it would include estrangement from my family. I never expected to get cussed out by my Christian father, or to not be notified when a loved one dies out of spite (I moved far away). People can be very cold!

Eight years ago, I couldn"t find a psychologist who understood these things. I had to find my own way. Today, people ask me to help them because they have similar circumstances. Religion divides people, Jesus himself asserted his in the introductory verses.

I applaud the Huffington Post for bringing this "taboo" subject to the public. Rational people see through the façade of the love of Christ. We only have one life to live, we have a choice to either be genuinely ourselves or to follow some religious guru and live like they tell us to live. Some people never realize the steep price that is paid for the faith life. To bad that the church feels the need to act as a psychological mafia in order to keep people in the family! Life is better on the outside!

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 01:04 PM on 03/20/2008

Is Ms. Tarico assuming there is actually no God? It seems so. To those who believe there is no God, religion seems like a mental illness.

Atheists, however, have no answers to the important questions of life, such as how life began or where we came from, why we are here, or what happens after death. Not knowing answers to these kinds of questions cause people to waste their lives in the hopeless pursuit of material enjoyment.

I cannot say much favorable about the religions of meat-eaters. They say "God is great," and that's something, but not much. Ahimsa, non-harming, is the first sub-religious principle, and God cannot be approached without it. The Vedas say the meat-eaters' scriptures, including the Bible, the Koran, and whatever else, are temporary, illogical, and put doubt about God into the minds of otherwise intelligent people. They say animal-killers, which includes everyone from the farmer who sells animals for slaughter to the one who finally eats the meat, cannot know God. No wonder atheism is so rampant.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 12:04 PM on 03/20/2008

And people like you, Pandu, seem to think there are no questions left, when in fact there are endless, unanswered questions about what is really going on in the universe. You are content with myth, and that's fine for you. Some of us -- I am an agnostic -- believe that scepticism and investigation are humanity's obligation. If 'God' had meant us not to question, he wouldn't have given us a brain.

Your assertion that atheism leads to lives wasted in the pursuit of "material enjoyment" is garbage. I am married to an atheist -- her position on this issue is more extreme than mine, but she is no shallow materialist. Nor are many of the atheist scientists I know.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 02:13 PM on 03/20/2008

There are certainly questions, but there also answers. One just needs to where to look and how to look. You may call God, Krishna, a myth, but He is absolutely real. I know this based on 1: my own direct personal experience with Him; 2: the Vedic scriptures; 3; my guru's teachings; and 4: the faith of His many devotees. On what basis to you say He is myth?

You are fine to use your brain to question, but you should also consider what are the limits to the brain's ability? Do you think your brain is sufficient to understand God without first surrendering to Him?

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 12:13 PM on 03/21/2008

Horse pucky! We atheists may not have the answers to all questions of existence, but then neither do you. You believe you do, but do you really?

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 01:13 PM on 03/20/2008

Yes, most certainly; though I don't consider them 'mine." They just are.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 11:50 AM on 03/21/2008

All my life I have been a secular humanist that never felt the need to voice or state my secular humanist self. It just did not matter. My life compass just worked. A few years ago, my spouse got breast cancer and went from a moderate christian to a fundamental evangelical whatnot who talks to god. In a purely react mode, I actively voiced and state my secular humanist self to the family and anyone at large. In one magical moment, I became satan, antichrist and whatnot. Obviously; since magic does not happen, the family was invaded by the god of myths. Over time, I began to poke around into stuff from the Greeks through today along with studying molecular biology and chemistry, evolution and just about everything else. In effect, I learned so much stuff. I like to think I became a polyglot whatnot. The joy I derived was quite nice. Obviously, the kids are somewhat confused, but I believe their life compass is intact even though they tend to be swayed by the mom (it seems moms tend to sway things in the soft parts of life). The family itself will probably persist even though it may not be as idealistic as it was. After all, it is not like there are missiles flying around all the time, just some of the time. So, never in my wildest dreams did I think I would have acquired and grown with my new poly knowledge, after 50+ years of my life. So, life is nice, at least for now.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 09:33 AM on 03/20/2008

Thank you for writing this post. I grew up in a religious family and even today find it uncomfortable when I'm around my family members and the topic of religion comes up. Luckily, my parents are pretty liberal and accept me just fine.
I believe that there needs to be support systems that provide a sense of community to free-thinkers who decide to come out. I have written at http://culturalnaturalism.blogspot.com/ where I promote naturalistic moral philosophy as an alternative to religion. This is an issue that I feel very passionately about, and it should receive more attention considering we are about 15% of the population.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 03:42 AM on 03/20/2008

Ajita,

I think you probably missed my response to you here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-clothier/are-we-the-greatest_b_91163.html
Did I say I represent "Hindus or people of East Indian ancestry in general?" I did not, nor have I ever.

Although you call me "the most ethnocentric person here," you probably cannot even guess my ethnic ancestry, not that it matters. I have never considered myself a Hindu.

I do not consider the Vedas to be Hindu or Indian scriptures, nor do I take Krishna as a "Hindu God," any more than I consider the Sun to be from the East although it rises from that direction.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 12:07 PM on 03/20/2008

Evangelicalism is just like any other -ism, where the cult gains control over the mind. Conway & Spiegelman described the phenomenon of "Snapping", where people (often professionals) undergo an acute emotional re-attachment and learn mechanisms to combat outsiders that attempt to get through to them. Michael's parents' rejection demonstrates just how powerful brainwashing can be, overcoming the natural parental instincts. It ia almost like the mother bird that will no longer recognize its offspring if the latter are touched by human hands, thereby acquiring a different scent.

I once "deprogrammed" someone out of a cult. To do so, I had the learn the cult's central teachings. They were so absurd that they were non-threatening to anyone who is still thinking at all. But, very young children, or adults experiencing significant emotional events, are highly susceptible because there is both the relief of anxiety and the feeling of exhiliration that reinforces the new connections---that they then hold onto those connections for dear life. Contrary information is threatening, to be avoided at all costs.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 03:24 AM on 03/20/2008

I hate to argue with psychologists, I get nervous just being here, but... Having been evicted from my own family, due to not sharing core beliefs with core members, I recognize the power struggles involved. It's easy to say religion is the cause, or the motivator, or the...okay, I'm tripping over my insecurities. But there is no solution at the end of such finger pointing. And it's the cure you're looking for right, not just a continued client-base, 'cause that would be unethical...great, I've overstepped my bounds.

Let's just put it this way, if God challenges you by being thrown out of your tribe, for any reason whatsoever. It is a challenge of power.

Better yet, it is a dare to self-actualize, to quote someone special.

You're saying that the psychological community doesn't recognize religion for the threat that it is, doesn't support your thesis that cultic affiliations can, through moral righteousness, cut a person's insides out and leave quite a bloody trail.

But the truth of the matter is that while cults can intimidate, and threaten a person's core self...if one finds oneself in such a power struggle, it is more than a blessing, it's a savagely disguised gift to grow beyond the tribal mind, into a fully-integrated human being...who can forgive.

Somewhat like ol' God himself. (Cough) or herself, pardon.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 02:22 AM on 03/20/2008

Dear Ms. Tarico,

What an eloquently expressed essay/post, both profound and poignant, and using a excellent analogy equating it to what gay Children go through in religious homes. I was just making this point on Ms.Lalli post or trying too, with my lack of eloquence that you have shown herein.

I concur with you, this is not innocuous. Agape. (Love in fellowship of our shared fragile Humanity)

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 02:09 AM on 03/20/2008

The stories of people in a similar situation are legion.

I suspect that most who begin to grow disinterested in religion (or who begin to entertain doubts or who leave the fold) do not necessarily turn to atheism, nor do they turn into verbal proselytizers against religion, but simply keep quiet, and hope to pass under their parent's "Jesus radar," while the parents themselves, having been commanded in Jesus's name of the necessity of not remaining silent, but of "converting the world," probably don't think twice (in any sane or cordial way) before hitting their kids with broadside after broadside.

Same goes for similar situations when one spouse grows much more religious than the other, or one spouse grows much less religious than the other. The more religious spouse is probably more active in tossing broadsides at the other, constantly inviting them to church, talking about their "fears of their spouse's damnation" in church prayer circles, and whining about them not attending church, and leaving little tracts or books all over the house so the less religious spouse can see them. While the less religious spouse is the one who more than likely winds up quietly enduring such actions by the more religious spouse, and hence it is the less religious spouse who often winds up acting more Christ-like in such situations. (Though I admit I'm generalizing, I've heard from a number of intelligent spouses who wanted simply to speak to someone who'd been what they went through in terms of their journey toward more questions and fewer absolute answers. They described the situation I mentioned and they did not have the type of support group that the "church" was supplying the more religious spouse. And they mentioned that if they reacted the same way their more religious spouse was reacting, trying to convert them all the time, then their marriages would surely fail. Why didn't the more religious spouse understand this they wondered?)

Here's one person's story that was on the internet...

I was 24 years old when my mother, through a series of mishaps, found out I was gay. My mother came over to where I worked, screaming, and told me I was "dead" to the family. She called me "sick," "crazy" and "of the devil." She said that I would never see my family again. For more than five years after that day, I heard nothing from my family. No birthday cards, no invitations to Christmas or Thanksgiving events. It wasn"t just the loss of my immediate family that was difficult, but the loss of my extended family as well. Since my mother refused to be in the same room with me, it forced my aunts and uncles to choose sides. I have not been to a family reunion in more than a decade. When my partner, Trisha, and I decided to have a child, we were not unlike most couples making this decision...The only thing unusual about our pregnancy was the critical necessity of a lawyer. Given my mother"s abject hostility toward gay and lesbian people, in the process of my pregnancy we had to spend thousands of dollars protecting ourselves from her potential interference. In spite of the fact that she has never, in more than a decade, visited me, and has written numerous articles comparing me to pedophiles and people who have sex with animals, according to the law, my mother has more rights to our child than Trisha.

http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/opinion/1004/25fields.html

As seen above, some highly devout parents would sooner risk the loss of their child"s love in order to retain what they imagine to be "God"s." For instance, a televised report (on Dateline or 20/20) in 1996 told how some "Christian counseling centers" boasted in their brochures they could "treat homosexuality." Children and adolescents who had been "treated" at such "counseling centers" told reporters they had been locked up, held down, and screamed at to "induce shame" and to "teach them how they should feel about what they were doing to their parents and God." Worse forms of abuse also took place. Some children and teenagers were detained for weeks, months, even years. At least one young girl sued her parents after she escaped from the "counseling center."

Makes me wonder when some Christian counseling center is going to claim to be able to cure "apostacy" [leaving the fold] too.

But in the end it's Christians themselves who are continually breaking up, not just families undergoing hardships but congregations splitting over some issue, and half the congregation's members leave to get a new pastor and found a different church; or whole denominations split up (the Anglicans are near a split over the issue of biblical authority and gay priests). There are now over 45,000 known separate Christian churches and missionary organizations round the world. From Pentecostals and Charismatics--to Fundamentalists who hate Christian contemporary music-- to congregations that play Death Metal Christian Rock Music, etc.

CHRISTIANITY RUNS THE GAMUT¦

From silent Trappist monks and quiet Quakers -- to hell raisers and serpent-handlers;

From those who believe nearly everyone (excepting themselves and their church) will be damned -- to those who believe everyone may eventually be saved ("Universalist" Christians);

From those who argue that they are predestined to argue in favor of predestination -- to those who argue for free will of their own free will;

From those who argue God is a "Trinity"-- to "Unitarian" Christians (which include not only the "Arian" churches of early Christianity, but also modern day Unitarian-Universalist churches, some modern day Messianic Jewish groups, some primitive Baptist groups, some "cults," and all of Judaism, since God"s chosen people in the earliest "testament" where taught, "The Lord Your God is One God");

From those who "hear the Lord" telling them to run for president, seek diamonds and gold (via liaisons with bloody African dictators), or sell "Lake of Galilee" beauty products -- to those who have visions of Mary, the saints, or experience bleeding stigmata;

From those who believe the communion bread and wine remain just that -- to those who believe the bread and wine are miraculously transformed into "invisible" flesh and blood (and can vouch for it with miraculous tales of communion wafers turning into human flesh and wine curdling into blood cells during Mass);

From those who believed that priests who delivered communion should never have ever denied their faith in the past even under threat of persecution -- to those who believed it did not matter whether or not priests forsook their faith when threatened with presecution (I am speaking of a major controversy in early Christianity between "Donatist" and "Catholic" Christiians, both of whom presumed they were the true church on the basis of the division cited above, a division that was never healed, and which ceased only after the North African region where most Donatist churches were located was overrun first by Vandals then later by Muslims.);

From the many Christians that once taught (or teach today as Reconstructionist Christians do) that heretics and apostates ought to be executed -- to Albigensian and Cathar Christians who outlawed violence and taught that the shedding of blood and the killing of any living thing, even the slaughtering of a chicken or ensnaring a squirrel, was a mortal sin (a belief they based on the spirituality and metaphors of Christ"s meekness and forgiveness in the Gospel of John). [See The YellowCross: The Story of the Last Cathars" Rebellion Against the Inquisition 1290-1329 by René Weis];

From Christians who believe in damning their enemies by calling down God"s wrath on them (as in certain imprecatory psalms) and who cite the verse, "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth" -- to Amish Christians (among others) who believe in helping the families of those who have offended them. (Case in point, in 2006 a man entered an Amish schoolhouse, gunned down several young female students then shot himself. The Amish later asked what they could do to help the family of the shooter. They planned a horse-and-buggy caravan to visit Charles Carl Roberts"s family with offers of food and condolences.);

From Christians who view Eastern religious ideas and practices as "Satanic"-- to Christian monks and priests who have gained insights into their own faith after dialoging with Buddhist monks and Hindu priests;

From castrati (boys in Catholic choirs who underwent castration to retain their high voices) -- to Protestant hymns and Gospel quartets--all the way to "Christian rap;"

From Christians who reject any behavior that even mimics "what homosexuals do" (including a rejection of fellatio and cunnilingus between a husband and wife) -- to Christians who accept committed, loving, homosexual relationships (including gay evangelical Church groups like the nationwide Metropolitan Baptist Church);

From Catholic nuns and Amish women who dress to cover their bodies -- to Christian nudists (viz., there was a sect known as the "Adamites," not to mention modern day Christians in Florida with their own nude Christian churches, campgrounds and even an amusement park), and let"s not forget born-again strippers;

From those who believe that a husband and wife can have sex for pleasure -- to those who believe that sex should be primarily for procreation -- to those who believe celibacy is superior to marriage (i.e., Catholic priests, monks, nuns, and some Protestant groups like the Shakers who denied themselves sexual pleasure and only maintained their membership by adopting abandoned children until the last Shaker finally died out in the late 1900s)--all the way to those who cut off their genitals for the kingdom of God (the Skoptze, a Russian Christian sect);

From those who believe sending out missionaries to persuade others to become Christians is essential -- to the Anti-Mission Baptists who believe that sending out missionaries and trying to persuade others constitutes a lack of faith and the sin of pride, and that the founding of "extra-congregational missionary organizations" is not Biblical;

From those who believe that the King James Bible is the only inspired translation -- to those who believe that no translation is totally inspired, only the original "autographs" were perfect -- to those who believe that "perfection" only lay in the "spirit" that inspired the writing of the Bible"s books, not in the "letter" of the books themselves;

From those who believe Easter should be celebrated on one date (Roman Catholics) -- to those who believe Easter should be celebrated on another date (Eastern Orthodox). And, from those who believe that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son (Roman Catholics) -- to those who believe it proceeds from the Father alone (Eastern Orthodox view as taught by the early Church Fathers). Those disagreements, as well as others, sparked the greatest schism of church history (the Schism of 1054) when the uncompromising patriarch of Constantinople, Michael Cerularius, and the envoys of the uncompromising Pope Leo IX, excommunicated each other;

From those who worship God on Sunday -- to those who worship God on Saturday (Saturday being the Hebrew "sabbath" that God said to "keep holy" according to one of the Ten Commandments) -- all the way to those who believe their daily walk with God and love of their fellow man is more important than church attendance;

From those who stress "God"s commands" -- to those who stress "God"s love;"

From those who believe that you need only accept Jesus as your "personal savior" to be saved -- to those who believe you must accept Jesus as both savior and "Lord" of your life in order to be saved. (Two major Evangelical Christian seminaries debated this question in the 1970s, and still disagree);

From those who teach that being "baptized with water as an adult believer" is an essential sign of salvation -- to those who deny it is;

From those who believe that unbaptized infants who die go straight to hell -- to those who deny the (once popular) church doctrine known as "infant damnation."

From those who teach that "baptism in the Holy Spirit" along with "speaking in tongues" are important signs of salvation -- to those who deny they are (some of whom see mental and Satanic delusions in modern day "Spirit baptism" and "tongue-speaking");

From those who believe that avoiding alcohol, smoking, gambling, dancing, contemporary Christian music, movies, television, long hair (on men), etc., are all important signs of being saved -- to those who believe you need only trust in Jesus as your personal savior to be saved;

From Christians who disagree whether the age of the cosmos should be measured in billions or only thousands of year -- whether God pops new creatures into existence or subtly alters old ones -- even some who disagree whether the earth goes round the sun or vice versa;

From pro-slavery Christians (there are some today who still remind us that the Bible never said slavery was a "sin") -- to anti-slavery Christians;

From Christians who defend the Biblical idea of having a king (and who oppose democracy as "the meanest and worst of all forms of government" to quote John Winthrop, first governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony, with whom some Popes agreed, as well as some of today"s Protestant Reconstructionist Christians)--to Christians who oppose kingships and support democracies;

From "social Gospel" Christians -- to "uncompromised Gospel" Christians;

From Christians who do not believe in sticking their noses in politics -- to coup d"etat Christians;

From "stop the bomb" Christians -- to "drop the bomb" Christians;

From Christians who strongly suspect that the world will end tomorrow -- to those who are equally certain it won"t.

All in all, Christianity gives Hinduism with its infinite variety of sects and practices a run for its money.

Edward T. Babinski
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The Christian God -- or gods? For out of Paraguayan Catholics, Vermont Congregationalists, Utah Mormons, and New Zealand Anglicans, sprout as many gods as are carved on a Jain temple wall.

John Updike
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In practice, Christianity, like Hinduism or Buddhism, is not one religion, but several religions, adapted to the needs of different types of human beings. A Christian church in Southern Spain, or Mexico, or Sicily is singularly like a Hindu temple. The eye is delighted by the same gaudy colors, the same tripe-like decorations, the same gesticulating statues; the nose inhales the same intoxicating smells; the ear and, along with it, the understanding, are lulled by the drone of the same incomprehensible incantations [in the old Catholic Latin mass tradition], roused by the same loud, impressive music.

At the other end of the scale, consider the chapel of a Cistercian monastery and the meditation hall of a community of Zen Buddhists. They are equally bare; aids to devotion (in other words fetters holding back the soul from enlightenment) are conspicuously absent from either building. Here are two distinct religions for two distinct kinds of human beings.

In Christianity bhakti [or, loving devotion] towards a personal being has always been the most popular form of religious practice. Up to the time of the [Catholic] Counter-Reformation, however, the way of knowledge ("mystical knowledge" as it is called in Chrstian language) was accorded an honorable place beside the way of devotion. From the middle of the sixteenth century onwards the way of knowledge came to be neglected and even condemned. We are told by Dom John Chapman that "Mercurian, who was general of the society (of Jesus) from 1573 to 1580, forbade the use of the works of Tauler, Ruysbroek, Suso, Harphius, St. Gertrude, and St. Mechtilde." Every effort was made by the [Catholic] Counter-Reformers to heighten the worshipper"s devotion to a personal divinity. The literary content of Baroque art is hysterical, almost epileptic, in the violence of its emotionality. It even becomes necessary to call in physiology as an aid to feeling. The ecstasies of the saints are represented by seventeenth-century artists as being frankly sexual. Seventeenth-century drapery writhes like so much tripe. In the equivocal personage of Margaret Mary Alacocque, seventeenth-century piety pours over a bleeding and palpitating heart. From this orgy of emotionalism and sensationalism Catholic Christianity seems never completely to have recovered.

The ideal of non-attachment has been formulated and systematically preached again and again in the course of the last three thousand years. We find it (along with everything else) in Hinduism. It is at the very heart of the teachings of the Buddha. For Chinese readers the doctrine is formulated by Lao Tsu. A little later, in Greece, the ideal of non-attachment is proclaimed, albeit with a certain, pharisaic priggishness, by the Stoics. The Gospel of Jesus is essentially a gospel of non-attachment to "the things of this world," and of attachment to God. Whatever may have been the aberrations of organized Christianity--and they range from extravagant asceticism to the most brutally cynical forms of realpolitik--there has been no lack of Christian philosophers to reaffirm the ideal of non-attachment. Here is John Tauler, for example, telling us that "freedom is complete purity and detachment which seeketh the Eternal..." Here is the author of "The Imitation of Christ," who bids us "pass through many cares as though without care; not after the manner of a sluggard, but by a certain prerogative of a free mind, which does not cleave with inordinate affection to any creature."

Aldous Huxley, Ends and Means: An Inquiry into the Nature of Ideals and into the Methods Employed for Their Realization
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Live long enough and you"ll encounter a lot of folks who say you are not really a Christian for a host of reasons. I"ve found the "no-true-Christian-would-do-or-believe-XYZ" game one of the more popular among, well, Christians.

Jonathan ( jge642000) at the yahoo group ExitFundyism
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People have an amazing ability to fool themselves. Even Christian theology teaches that there are those who think they are believers but aren"t. But just watching, as I have, an Islamic music group from Malaysia makes one realize how similar their actions are to those of a Christian music group. To see a man standing in deep meditation outside of a Shinto temple in Japan makes one wonder how belief comes about. To see a woman with great concern on her face burning a huge number of incense sticks at a temple in Hangzhou, China (one of my very favorite pictures) tells one that fervent prayer (and belief in the efficacy of prayer) is not the sole province of the Christian. To see how devoted Tibetan Buddhists are to their beliefs when compared with levels of devotion shown by many western Christians to theirs, makes one wonder why so many of us are less committed than them; same with the Islamacists who are willing to die for their beliefs while much of the West is not interested in self-sacrifice.

Glenn Morton [Evangelical Christian], American Scientific Affiliation (ASA) Email Discussion Group (June 16, 2006)
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In my journeys in Christianity both in America and abroad I"ve run across a myriad of believers, a mosaic of Christianity:

I remember a converted Christian who used to be a "Satanist ," saying, "What"s the big deal about smoking marijuana?"

A Pentecostal pastor in Holland sat crying at a street side cafe worried that one of his woman parishioners was going to hell since she had stopped coming to church and was now wearing make-up.And as he cried, his tears rolled off his cheeks into his beer. (Many Pentecostal Christians in the U.S. ascribe to an ethic of absolute abstinence from alcohol.)

I"ve known Christians who won"t own a TV; others who won"t allow playing cards in their house, and others who drink alcohol liberally and have every material possession imaginable. Others attempt to memorize the Bible to such an extent that it blocks most of their own personal original thoughts about anything; others who are social activists who take up causes like opposing abortion or picketing a Marilyn Manson concert; others who are simple and humble and feed the poor and house the homeless; others who are missionaries in third world countries suffering hardship for the "cause of Christ." There was a sub group, however, in my institute who were King James Only--they believed the KJV was the only true inspired Bible for today and that all other versions were corrupted. As a group, they were radically enthusiastic and were proud to be KJV ONLY, and often fueled arguments over alternate translations. Heaven forbid they should catch anyone reading or enjoying The Living Bible (a modern English paraphrased translation of the ancient Hebrew) which they viewed as "the Devil"s work."

Karl Arendale (mauikarl) at the Yahoo Group, ExitFundyism
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Our divisions should never be discussed except in the presence of those who have already come to believe that there is one God and that Jesus Christ is his only Son.

C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity
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Theology is a comprehensive, rigorous, and systematic attempt to conceal the beam in the scriptures and traditions of one"s own denomination while minutely measuring the mote in the heritages of ones" brothers.

Walter Kaufmann, The Faith of a Heretic
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Every sect, as far as reason will help them, make use of it gladly; and where it fails them, they cry out, "It is a matter of faith, and above reason."

John Locke











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