Daryl Motte and Seth Conger have got a lot going for them. They're young, attractive, smart, employed, single, funny, down-to-earth, slightly old-fashioned and curious -- the kind of guys who'd make perfect husbands.
Except that Daryl, 31, and Seth, 28 -- two longtime friends who run the irreverent dating advice blog, We're Just Not There Yet and have an upcoming book by the same name -- are just not there yet when it comes to marriage. And a big part of that is the fear of the D-word: Divorce.
It's a valid fear. Daryl and Seth's generations -- Daryl's a Gen-Xer, Seth's a Millennial -- are already divorcing at surprising rates. Of those who married in 2009, 43.9 percent were men in their age group, 25 to 34, according to the Census Bureau's "Marital Events of Americas: 2009," while of those divorcing, 23.7 percent -- more than half -- were ages 25 to 34. For men ages 15 to 24, 19.5 percent married and 3.8 percent divorced.
Men Daryl and Seth's age are "in that stage of life where they are building their income, their economic independence. The worst thing would be if they were to lose it all," says David Popenoe, who headed the National Marriage Project at Rutgers before it moved to the University of Virginia under Bradford Wilcox's leadership.
For Daryl, that is a very real possibility: "I don't see marriage as an option until the (divorce) laws are equal. They're heavily weighed against men," says Daryl, who adds it's just too easy for people to walk away.
The two aren't alone in their thinking. In AskMen's discussion of Popenoe's 2006 study, "The State of Our Unions," it's clear that along with the fear of losing freedom and space, dealing with emotional baggage and compromise, feeling pushed into something they may not be ready for, and the idea of having one sexual partner forever, the D-word weighs heavily on men:
When we've been divorced and run through the wringer of the court system, many of us are reluctant (read: "terrified") to risk a second commitment. Nowadays, we aren't exactly chomping at the bit to sign a contract legally allowing a woman to clean us out financially. Successful achievers -- those of us who have built companies and high-powered careers from the ground up -- are especially afraid of being forced to hand over all the fruits of our hard labor and may make the decision never to get involved in a serious relationship again.
But even those haven't been through a divorce have come to expect it. In a recent study of newlywed women, half said they expected infidelity would be part of their marriage and 72 percent said they'd probably experience divorce. With so many couples starting their new life together with those sorts of expectations -- even as they vow "till death do we part" -- it's no wonder they become self-fulfilling prophecies. Nor is it surprising that men might be hesitant.
A recent Time article, "Debunking the Myth of the Slippery Bachelor," declared men want to marry as much as women do, according to a study of 5,200 people 21- to 65-plus years old. The standout were men ages 25 to 49 -- they were less inclined to get hitched than the women.
That's what twenty-something blogger Jessica Massa discovered in the past year of interviewing 22- to 35-year-olds across the country for an upcoming book and movie based on her observations on Millennial dating (WTFIsUpWithMyLoveLife.com). "The guys say, 'Oh no, divorce is not an option. That's why I'm going to wait.' They'd rather not get married than get married and get a divorce. And that puts more pressure on them to wait."
Mark Pfeffer sees it, too. The Chicago psychotherapist runs an "unwed anxiety" group for thirty-somethings at his Panic, Anxiety and Recovery Center. It isn't divorce per se that scares them, he tells me; it's the financial ramifications of breaking up -- having to face a "50 percent chance of misery." If someone hasn't married by thirty-something -- and the age for a first marriage now is 28 for men and 26 for women -- then he or she has most likely been to enough weddings and experienced a good share of divorces to see what Pfeffer calls "the carnage" of a marital breakup. That's enough to rattle a thirty-something's idea of wedded bliss.
Morley Winograd and Michael D. Hais have faith Millennials will avoid the carnage. Co-authors of Millennial Momentum: How a New Generation is Remaking America, Winograd and Hais don't see the fear of divorce as a big deterrent to twenty-somethings' marriage plans. The 50 percent divorce rate is more the reality of baby boomers, not Gen-Xers and most likely not Millennials either, they say. Although most Millennials are still too young to be walking down the aisle, the ones closer to marrying age "are being so careful about choosing a mate," Winograd says.
That may be true but many young adults still "hold unrealistic, idealized views about marital relationships," according to a 2007 study of southeastern college students. And it's those unrealistic, idealized views that often lead former love-birds to divorce lawyers.
For Millennials, says Paul Taylor, executive vice president of Pew Research, "Only six in 10 grew up with both parents. So broken homes, never-formed homes, re-formed homes -- it's part of their life experience, and ... they are repeating that pattern, perhaps even more so."
As more chose to cohabit, they won't experience divorce but many won't avoid a breakup --40 percent of cohabiting hetero couples split within five years.
Still, as Daryl and Seth watched their friends exchange vows at numerous weddings this past year, the D-word was the farthest thing from their mind. "I feel there's still hope," says Seth.
But they're just not there yet.
Huffington Post bloggers Vicki Larson and Susan Pease Gadoua are collaborating on a book on reimagining marriage, "The New I Do." If you are interested in being a part of their research, please contact them at info@changingmarriage.com
Follow Vicki Larson on Twitter: www.twitter.com/OMGchronicles
Men notice the behavior changes in women when her marital status goes from single to married, and she quits acting like the guys girlfriend and start acting more like his mother. Men are reluctant to lose their girlfriend.. simply by marrying her.
It seems to be such a common behavior pattern that women quit having sex a year or so after marriage when the novelty has worn off, that you'd think marriage preparation classes would address this issue.
Marriage preparation classes should educate everyone about these common BAD behavior patterns and then ask every participant if they have such an agenda for quitting sex after marriage. It would help lower the divorce rate if they did because for most men, a sexless marriage is a loveless marriage.
Women seem to know when they are in a girlfriend/boyfriend relationship and are having lots of sex, that it might end the relationship if they decided they are done having sex for the rest of their life. For some reason many women think such behavior is fine AFTER getting married, ie. they decide they are done having sex and ignore that they are deciding for their husband that he too is done having sex for the rest of his life whether he likes it or not.
Good grief. Then what's the point of getting married? Don't get married unless you fully trust your partner.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2056375/Fathers-lose-bid-equal-custody-rights-review-family-law.html
Why don't more women speak out against this widespread feminist bigotry and hatred?
Not really. Those qualifications do not quite translate into good husbands, much less "perfect" ones (whatever perfection might mean). A perfect (beer?) buddy, maybe, but not a husband.
First and foremost, an ability to love and willingness to take responsibility for his own actions and the well-being of others.
Women looking for a husband would do well asking a couple of major questions:
1. Is he capable of love without strings attached -- i.e., non-sexual love?
Look at his relationships with other people (and not), see how he treats them: is he able to give without a hope of rewards? Does he care about them -- is he able to express that care and do what's necessary to further their well-being, especially when it involves postponing his own gratification? Is he able to act with self-control in situations that pit his needs against those of others?
2. Does he like women? (Seems a no-brainer, and yet.)
Listen to what he says about women in general as well as about women in his life: his mother, his sisters, friends, and yes, his exes. Again, look for signs of his ability to take responsibility for his actions and attitudes -- does he blame women for his failures, unhappiness, etc.? If he does it to other women, chances are that with time he'll do it to you too. Pay attention to how he treats women in his life, from his mother to the hurried post-office clerk.
No matter how smart, successful, etc. a man is, if he does not meet the two criteria above, he will not make a good husband.
Openness to sharing his financial income and assets.
A generous, placid reaction to his giving up his civil rights under VAWA upon marriage or cohabitation with a woman, including his right to be a parent to his children.
Neck-baring submission and deep self-abnegation when he is raped in family court by his wife over and over again.
Acceptance of his role as a cash machine without access to his children after the divorce is finalized.
Being a marriagable material is about learning how to put your needs second, and your spouse's first. Until these young fellers get a grip on that, they should stick to writing blogs. It would help if they also liked women, because judging by their comments they don't. I don't want a woman-hating men coming nowhere near my daughters.
As a man, you are automatically putting your needs second if you get married.
Mark
Secondly, there is the whole birth complication thing as women approach their mid 30's. Meanwhile a man in his late 20's early 30's is approaching or already at the top of his value. He will be making more money and can still make babies until he is much older. They can also date younger women easily.
On top of that, men generally do not fare well in divorce.
Simply put, it is much more disadvantageous for a man to get married than it is for a woman.
I agree completely, BUT...how many men are aware of this phenomenon? I only became aware of it very recently when I stumbled across a random article.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-t-pisarra/the-easiest-lie_b_1070799.html
With a child, our futures are tied even tighter. My wife will have years without job experience if we ever divorce, and that isn't worth nothing. We have decided that the best situation for our child is if she stays with her during the day doing the less glorified tasks while I work. I get to protect my earning potential, while her earning potential is back down to entry level if she can even get that. She may not get paid for what she does, but she isn't just relaxing raking in my dough. She is exhausted when I come home, and I frankly don't know how I could make it week to week without her.
These men are doing women a favor by not putting them in a marriage where the man is already planning on ways to not be there later, financially or otherwise.
ALL of the men I know, when they took their vows, thought it was a serious commitment they were making, and I'm sure the women thought so too. With the exception of a few Hollywood stars, I think most people marry, figuring it will "last forever".
Somewhere between the magic and the dirty dishes, the love is goes away and reality sets in - and half the marriages end in divorce. Women initiate 75% of the time. No matter how hard YOU personally try and commit, there is a good chance that somewhere down the line, say ten years from now, that your partner will leave you.
It only takes one person to end a marriage.
Hopefully, your marriage will continue on track. I wish you the best, since I was once in your shoes and felt like you.
But if, ten years from now, your wife leaves you for another man, and you end up with your children taken away, your house gone, paying half your income for child support, your life in shambles, not because you wanted it but because she became dissatisfied for some reason and joined the 75% club, then, and only then, will you understand what some of us are posting here.
We are merely pointing out the risks - the very high probability - that your life will be severely damaged and there will not be a single thing you can do about it.
You're completely right on this point, Rob. No woman should ever settle for less than the attitude you're offering, especially as concerns the sacrifices made once kids come along. It's refreshing to hear from a guy on this thread with an attitude of fundamental decency and love for his wife and family. I seriously doubt you will ever enter the ranks of the embittered. Your wife's a lucky girl and your kids are lucky too.
Why are we attempting to draw broad social conclusions from the life stories of these two pompous elitists?
Your piece is interesting, but of course it's about a woman showing love to a man, and that's the only kind you seem interested in. What about the love YOU bring to the equation? When have you shown true unconditional love to someone else? It doesn't have to be sexual. Until you are the one demonstrating the love, you really don't know a thing about it. As long as you think of it strictly in terms of receiving it, you'll remain a spoiled child. Which seems to be the "there" where you're pretty well stuck.