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Keep Guns Off College Campuses

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Several states have now proposed laws that would allow students to carry concealed weapons on their college campus. Advocates of these bills argue that the recent tragic shootings at colleges in Virginia and Illinois might have been prevented or mitigated if students and faculty--not just the gunman--had firearms at the ready.

But, such legislation is not only unnecessary, it is ill-conceived and would most likely lead to more tragedy than it prevents and certainly won't make campuses safer. In fact, while recent violent crimes on campus are troubling, colleges are actually extraordinarily safe places, with the majority of experts espousing that the relative lack of guns is precisely what makes them havens from violent crimes.

According to the U.S. Department of Education, the average homicide rate on college campuses nationally for the past six years is approximately one homicide for every one million students. In comparison, this would be like New York City having eight homicides per year instead of the 466 murders committed there in 2009.

One grave concern of the proposed laws is the potential mix of guns with alcohol and drugs. In a recent survey by the American College Health Association, four in 10 college students said they endured stress often and approximately two in 10 stated they felt stressed all or most of the time. Far too many students turn to alcohol or drugs - or both - to combat these feelings. Already, the ACHA reports 35 percent to 40 percent of students participate in binge drinking in any typical two-week period. Given that figure, it's not surprising that 700,000 assaults annually among college students are attributed to alcohol use. Moreover, according to last year's National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse study, 85 percent of all campus arrests involve alcohol--one of the strongest and most consistent risk factors for violent crime. Put guns in the hands of drunken college students and the odds are great that many of those assaults will become tragic, life-ending encounters.

Violence towards others is not the only reason to be concerned about introducing guns on campus. There are currently 100 suicides for each homicide that occurs on a campus. In a large-scale ACHA survey published this March, nearly 18 percent of college students said they had experienced depression within the last school year. An earlier study by this same group noted that 59 percent of students feel hopeless at times and 45 percent feel depressed to the point that it is difficult to function. And each year about 10 percent of college students seriously think about suicide, with the most common method of ending life being by firearms. Since we know that the most effective way to prevent suicides in this age group is to limit the means by which the suicide may occur, common sense dictates that legalizing concealed weapons in dormitories and classrooms is only likely to make things worse.

The evidence is, therefore, overwhelming: making guns more freely available on college campuses will significantly increase the risk of serious and, in fact, deadly crime, especially for those large numbers of students who might be intoxicated or depressed at some point, while only marginally, if at all, decrease the risk of what is already the very rare event of a shooting rampage. Guns just have no place on a college campus--except in the hands of law enforcement.

Dr. Victor Schwartz is University Dean of Students at Yeshiva University and associate professor of clinical psychiatry at YU's Albert Einstein College of Medicine. Dr. Jerald Kay is professor and chair of the Department of Psychiatry at Wright State University's Boonshoft School of Medicine. Dr. Paul Appelbaum is the Elizabeth K. Dollard Professor of Psychiatry, Medicine, and Law and director of the Division of Law, Ethics, and Psychiatry at the Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons.
 
 
 
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01:50 PM on 05/20/2010
I agree with the author's statement that guns have no place on campus. I'm from VA and have many friends who attended VA Tech during the shooting. The lesson here is that they did have a weapons ban on campus that included guns (like all VA public colleges). The real issue, at Tech at least, is that Cho should never have been able to purchase a gun with such well documented altered-mental status and depression issues. This is something that the VA government (not surprising to many here) has done nothing to prevent.
01:37 PM on 05/21/2010
But what happens when a mentally unstable person DOES get a gun? The problem with your suggestion, which is the same suggestion parroted by gun control advocates across the country, is that it falls short in one important aspect: Stricter screening methods for gun purchases don't offer much assistance or comfort to a student hiding under her desk listening to gunshots getting closer.

Contrary to what some people might have us believe, prevention and preparedness are not mutually exclusive. In a perfect system, the two approaches to safety compliment each other. Preventive measures, such as teaching students and faculty to watch for the warning signs of mental illness, providing counseling to disturbed students, and making sure that individuals with histories of mental illness can't easily purchase firearms can work hand in hand with preparative measures, such as developing campus alert systems, providing additional training to campus police, and allowing the same trained, licensed, carefully screened adults (age 21 and above) who legally carry concealed handguns when not on college campuses to do so on college campuses.

And for what it's worth, both the Virginia state government and the federal government have addressed the issue of making sure mental health adjudications are included in NICS background checks.
09:43 PM on 05/21/2010
what happens when a mentally unstable person does get a gun? things like the vt massacre, that was the point of my comment! i was simply pointing out that the author was ignoring major facts of the va tech incident that would hinder the central argument of the article. as to your other point about va gun laws, HIPPA laws take precedent making it very difficult for gun dealers to gain access to relevant medical information (which legislators did present in the wake of the vt massacre, which didn't pass, so no the va state laws have not addressed the issue).
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
DevonTexas
Eternal Optimism
01:45 PM on 05/20/2010
"Advocates of these bills argue that the recent tragic shootings at colleges in Virginia and Illinois might have been prevented or mitigated if students and faculty--not just the gunman--had firearms at the ready."
And then it could have been a full-scale shoot-out like the Old West days!
But even those days were followed by period when the sheriff and/or the bartender collected all the guns and returning them when the owners left town. I think we should focus on the latter aspect.
We don't need a return to the Wild West days!
01:27 PM on 05/21/2010
The image of the wild west shootout is a myth--a legend born out of dime store novels, not reality. In reality, the murder rate in many towns of the "wild west" was lower than the current murder rate in some U.S. cities. According to an article* from Cracked.com, "You were way more likely to be murdered in Baltimore in 2008 than you were in Tombstone in 1881, the year of the famous gunfight at the OK Corral (body count: three) and the town's most violent year ever."

*http://www.cracked.com/article_18487_6-ridiculous-history-myths-you-probably-think-are-true_p1.html
01:27 PM on 05/21/2010
The notion that a "shootout" would somehow make a campus shooting worse is baseless. What is worse than allowing an execution-style massacre to continue uncontested? How could any action with the potential to stop or slow a deranged killer intent on slaughtering victim after victim be considered worse than allowing that killer to continue undeterred? Contrary to what the movies might have us believe, most real-world shootouts last less than ten seconds (according to a 1997 FBI study). Even the real gunfight at the O.K. corral, a shootout involving nine armed participants and a number of bystanders, lasted only about thirty seconds and resulted in only three fatalities. No bystanders were injured.

It is unlikely that an exchange of gunfire between an armed assailant and an armed citizen would last more than a couple of seconds before one or both parties were disabled. How could a couple of seconds of exchanged gunfire possibly be worse than a ten-minute, execution-style massacre?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
hagagaga
My comments are funnier than yours.
10:13 AM on 05/17/2010
When I'm in college three years from now, I want to be armed.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
DevonTexas
Eternal Optimism
01:46 PM on 05/20/2010
with what and for what reason? Planning to matriculate in Iraq?
09:18 PM on 05/16/2010
what the authors missed is that while AVERAGE homicide rates are lower, they come in binges.

while on the streets 1 person dies here or there, on college campuses deaths come in bunches of 20-30 at any one time.

Univ. Texas
Columbine
Va. Tech

The fact is that when it does happen, students have no chance to protect themselves. They are being forced to play the numbers game instead of actually being kept safe.

Last year on my campus, 4 women were raped by one man after walking back to their dorms after late-night classes. Who are we to tell them that they can't defend themselves?

Take a look at the Appalachian School of Law shooting in 2002. I guarantee you no one has heard of it on this board, but it could have been a lot worse if the students hadn't fought back.

I'm not saying that we should hand guns out, but if you have a CCW then I see no reason why you can't exercise that privilege. If you can't defend yourself or feel safe on open campuses at night, then why even risk it.

Chances are most people won't get into a car accident today, but that doesn't mean you drive around without a seat belt and say "hey the odds are in my favor!"
11:18 PM on 05/18/2010
thank you
01:18 PM on 05/16/2010
And a point about suicide- the most difficult suicides to prevent in this age group are the unfortunately not uncommon impulsive suicide. We have strong evidence that the best way to prevent the impulsive suicide is to limit the means. That means doing things like limiting the amount of pills prescribed at ne time, limiting access to building roofs and bridges (as has been done at NYU and recently Cornell) and yes, limiting access to firemarms. The gola of means restriction os to slow the person down enough that they can be prevented from acting impulsively. Putting guns in peoples' hands shortens the time we have between impulse and action to a tremendous extent and thus dramatically increases the danger of suicide. It might be no coincidence that suicide rates in the US vary state by state in almost perfect relation to gun ownership-the more people have guns, the higher the suicide rate. Maybe a coincidence-but should make us pause and think for a moment.
06:07 AM on 05/17/2010
Studies show that 90% of suicides are committed in the home. Because most college students over the age of twenty-one (the minimum age to obtain a concealed handgun license in most states) live off campus, allowing concealed carry on college campuses would have very little impact on the ability of college students to possess firearms in their homes and, therefore, little or no impact on the overall number of suicides by college students.

At the University of Texas—a major university with over 50,000 students, in a state where one person out of 70 is licensed to carry a concealed handgun—a quick comparison of campus housing statistics and concealed handgun licensing statistics reveals that there would likely be no more than ten to twenty concealed handgun license holders living in on-campus housing (all on-campus housing, not just dorms) at any given time. That being the case, how many of those 10-20 students would you expect to kill themselves in a given year?

If you're concerned that a firearm stored in a dorm might be vulnerable to theft, push for safe-storage requirements or restrictions on carrying firearms in dorms. The vulnerability of dorms to theft does not necessitate a campus-wide ban on concealed carry.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
DevonTexas
Eternal Optimism
01:50 PM on 05/20/2010
Texas doesn't require a license to own a firearm and you're lying with statistics.
And "home" is where the person lives, not where their parents live. To say a person can't commit suicide outside their "home" because they are away at college?!? Woah!
You are really over-reaching in WAY so many ways!
06:08 AM on 05/17/2010
Suicide is simply the latest in a long list of failed arguments clung to by a gun control movement that is grasping at straws, hoping for anything that might appear to be a fact-based argument against allowing licensed concealed carry on college campuses. At first they argued that concealed carry on college campuses would lead to assaults. When the evidence didn't back up that claim, they argued that concealed carry would lead to accidents. When the evidence didn't back up that claim, they argued that concealed carry would make students and faculty too nervous to function and, thereby, impede the learning process. When the evidence didn't back that up, they claimed that allowing concealed carry on campus would lead to an increase in student suicides. And now that the evidence has been shown to contradict that argument, they've resorted to arguing that colleges are relatively safe anyway; therefore, students and faculty don't need to be able to defend themselves on campus. The arguments just get sillier and sillier as time goes on.
01:12 PM on 05/16/2010
It is truly ironic that the same gun enthusiasts who are so certain that our government and police forces can do nothing whatever to protect us are so confident that these same entities can effectively monitor and control gun ownership and usage. What am i missing?
A few folks have commented on the aparent discrepancy between the estimates of alcohol feuled assaults on campuses (about 700,000/year) and the much lower rate of homicide and other crimes resulting in fatalities (about 15-20 homicides/year on college campuses). But this is precisely the point-most of the assaults are people taking a swing at each other while drunk-usually no serious injury or damage. Imagine how many of these events would turn into lethal interactions if all the partiers were "packing" and felt a need to protect themselves. The more troubling assualts are alcohol induced "date rapes" which occur too often and are usually male on female assaults. Assuming that men (who are likely the aggressors in these events) will typically be the ones carrying guns, we have now raised the risk from sexual assualt to sexual assault at gunpoint and shooting should the victim (also often inebriated) resist or scream. Is this really what we all want?
03:34 PM on 05/16/2010
vic--please read the Heller decision--there is a Constitutionally protected INDIVIDUAL right to keep and bear arms,but you have yet to prove your case that restricting firearms will reduce suicides, especially in light of the fact that despite draconian gun laws, Japan's suicide rate is higher than the combined suicide and murder rates of the US
06:18 AM on 05/17/2010
Legalizing licensed concealed carry on college campuses wouldn't change the rules at bars or off-campus parties (the places where individuals old enough to obtain a concealed handgun license are most likely to consume alcohol), and it wouldn't legalize carrying a concealed handgun while intoxicated.

The same trained, licensed, carefully screened adults (age 21 and above) who aren't getting drunk and shooting people outside of campus are the same trained, licensed, carefully screened adults (age 21 and above) who wouldn't be getting drunk and shooting people on campus.

Concealed carry hasn't led to an increase in assaults or rapes at any of the other places where it's allowed--places like movie theaters, shopping malls, restaurants, grocery stores, office buildings, banks, churches, etc. And it hasn't led to an increase in assaults or rapes on the 33 U.S. college campuses where concealed carry is currently allowed (and has been for years). Why should we assume the results would be any different on any other college campus?
12:25 PM on 05/15/2010
Yes, the same goes for National Parks. There are places in this country where one should feel safe and free. Colleges and National Parks are two of those It is incidious to think guns on campuses or in any park is a good idea. Assaults and rapes are horrible, but if guns are involved..the possiblity that those assaults would be at least one homicide if not more is more probable than naught. Guns just don't solve the problems.
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mackbolan
Libertas inaestimabilis res est
10:20 PM on 05/15/2010
so it is better to be raped and murdered rather to defend ones life...
10:24 PM on 05/16/2010
Quote from springsm "There are places in this country where one should feel safe and free."
Feeling safe and being safe are not the same!
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03:21 AM on 05/15/2010
"In fact, while recent violent crimes on campus are troubling, colleges are actually extraordinarily safe places, with the majority of experts espousing that the relative lack of guns is precisely what makes them havens from violent crimes."

"Given that figure, it's not surprising that 700,000 assaults annually among college students are attributed to alcohol use."

Propaganda knows no bounds I guess.. So they are safe, except for the rampant assaults which will bloom into a massive carnage the first time someone chants the numbers 32, 357, 45..
10:17 AM on 05/14/2010
Sigh...I see it here, I see it there, I see it all across the Internet...

The mere hint of not allowing anyone and everyone to be armed to the teeth anywhere and everywhere they want causes the usual foaming-at-the-mouth suspects to appear in full force, screaming with their usual statistics...
03:37 PM on 05/14/2010
Yeah, you've got to hate it when a position is argued on the basis of factual evidence. It throws a wrench into all of the fear mongering and emotional pandering that is otherwise so effective.
05:34 PM on 05/14/2010
Factually evidence...which, of course translates into your facts...
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Dimensio
I just don't know what went wrong!
05:12 PM on 05/14/2010
I can understand why advocates of civilian disarmament are disturbed by the presentation of statistics; such data demonstrates that civilian disarmament advocates are dishonest, and that their espoused position is intellectually dishonest.
05:37 PM on 05/14/2010
Yeah, we are advocates of civilian disarmament. Why not throw in your other usual and tired accusations too? I have read them all. You gun nuts have constantly pushed all the limits of reasonable gun control farther and farther away from "reasonable." And you accuse us of being intellectually dishonest whenever we push back. You are the most rigid ideologues out there, and there is nothing that will change your mind, thus my lack of desire to take your opinions seriously.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Duke1225
06:28 PM on 05/15/2010
Explain to me why people who work on college campus' (I'm one) are against this, and people like you (btw. when was the last time you were on a college campus?)think guns should be allowed. Do you think we want to be less safe?
11:02 PM on 05/13/2010
You argue that it is the existence of prohibitions against guns on campuses that make campuses safe, while at the same time describing the pervasiveness of binge drinking (some of which is presumably done by individuals under age 21) on campuses. If students are so cavalier as to disregard prohibitions on drinking, what makes you think that they are complying with prohibitions on carrying firearms on campus?

If you can accept that students are likely in non-compliance with restrictions on firearms in the same way that they are in non-compliance with alcohol restrictions, the entire premise of your argument (that campuses are safe due to lack of guns and this safety would evaporate if guns were permitted on campuses) falls apart. You also do not confront the fact that while students and faculty are typically prohibited from carrying firearms on public campuses, many states allow non-students and non-faculty to carry guns on those same campuses.

Are intoxicated students killing each other or themselves at alarming rates now with those other deadly implements they are allowed to keep on campus? If not, why would allowing individuals to keep firearms on campus suddenly cause violence to increase?
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OdinsEye
Korean-Latino cop and combat vet
09:46 PM on 05/13/2010
The fact is that most of the people asking to be able to carry concealed on campus don't live on campus. They are over 21, have passed a background check, obtained training regarding the use of lethal force and state and local laws. They already have concealed carry permits and carry off-campus (which is where most of the "parties" take place as well). So most of the arguments brought up by the auther are really non-starters.
12:27 PM on 05/15/2010
Oh ya, those upright citizens that have taken the classes and tests. That argument holds about as much water as a broken bottle.
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JimInHouston
Arma virumque cano...
10:15 PM on 05/15/2010
"That argument holds about as much water as a broken bottle. "

Aside from derision, what do you mean by this?
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OdinsEye
Korean-Latino cop and combat vet
01:05 AM on 05/17/2010
Prove your point.
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OdinsEye
Korean-Latino cop and combat vet
09:40 PM on 05/13/2010
"In fact, while recent violent crimes on campus are troubling, colleges are actually extraordinarily safe places, with the majority of experts espousing that the relative lack of guns is precisely what makes them havens from violent crimes."

They make a correlative case. But if one looks at a statistical analysis, it becomes clear that the presence of firearms is not much of a factor, the big difference is the people and the environment.
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OdinsEye
Korean-Latino cop and combat vet
09:37 PM on 05/13/2010
"such legislation is not only unnecessary, it is ill-conceived and would most likely lead to more tragedy than it prevents"

Such has been the same rallying cry used by opponents of concealed carry for 20 years. Yet their predictions of wild west shootouts amoung concealed carry permitees, innocents caught in the middle, cops rolling up on situations and not knowing who to shoot, and blood running in the streets from the practice of concealed carry, has not occured.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
LDF
That's me in the red coat
11:31 PM on 05/15/2010
Rubbish. See:

http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/93744194.html
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OdinsEye
Korean-Latino cop and combat vet
01:06 AM on 05/17/2010
An anecdote does not make a statistic.
06:24 PM on 05/13/2010
As a student at Yeshiva, I find this to be terrible. Of all people who would be against carrying guns, it's the Jews? Give me a break. We know the need for guns. We've known it before. I am sick and effin tired of these liberal Jews. Are you guys retarded?
Carry 24/7 or guess right.
03:43 PM on 05/16/2010
I grew up attending a Presbytarian church--and I agree with you. Correct me if I am wrong, but I understand that there is a requirement to defend innocent life that places full responsibility for the criminals death on the criminal and NOT on the victim (I know I oversimplifying, but my Hebrew is nonexistent)
07:17 AM on 05/23/2010
Awfully hard to get a Jew and his family in a boxcar when he's holding a rifle with a 40-round mag.

It's also hard to beat up a black guy when he can carry, hence post-Civil War laws keeping "certain types" disarmed.

The same for New York's Sullivan Acts (no good Irish are too drunk to be trusted bearing arms).

Of course, now we're much more enlightened, and the "undesirable types" who don't deserve the right to protect themselves include lowly peons of all colors; if they're not government, disarm 'em (politicians and celebrities excepted--they're More Equal than the rest of us).
03:43 PM on 05/13/2010
The author's claims are absurd. Someone can just as easily kill themselves off campus as they can on campus, so suicide would not be affected by college gun bans. Besides, why would a suicidal person care about violating a gun policy? People who partake in crime, binge drinking, and drug abuse would not care about such policies either.

The authors cite no evidence that allowing CCW on campus would increase crime or violence, because there isn't any. Already some colleges do allow CCW, and no one has presented any evidence those colleges are any less safe then the ones that do not.
05:29 PM on 05/13/2010
and many college campuses have buildings that are tall enough to commit suicide by jumping or people can always suicide by cutting etc