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Victor Stenger

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Is Evolution Compatible With Religion?

Posted: 10/06/2012 3:16 pm

Every major scientific society has affirmed that all our knowledge of biological science convincingly supports evolution by natural selection and cannot be understood without it. At the same time, these societies have carefully avoided offending religious groups by assuring that evolution does not conflict with religious beliefs. (See, for example, National Academy of Sciences. Teaching About Evolution and the Nature of Science. Washington, DC: National Academy Press, 1998, p. 58).

In fact, this attempt by scientists to convince the American public that evolution poses no threat to faith has largely fallen on deaf ears, perhaps because it is simply untrue, and believers can see this clearly enough.

A 2010 Gallup Poll found that only 16 percent of Americans believe in "Naturalist Evolution," defined as the view that "Man has developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life [and] God had no part in the process." This is exactly the same percentage of Americans who declare themselves unaffiliated with any religion. It may be that the only Americans who accept naturalist evolution are those who do not participate in any organized religion.

Of 34 developed nations surveyed for their acceptance of evolution, defined as humans and apes sharing the same ancestor, only Turkey was lower than the U.S.

So, what is it that the Americans who do participate in organized religion believe? The Gallup Poll found that 30 percent of all Americans agree with "Theistic Evolution" defined as "Man has developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life, but God guided this process, including man's creation." And, an amazing 40 percent adopt the "Creationist View" in which "God created man pretty much in his present form at one time within the last 10,000 years." This is despite the fact that only 26.3 percent of all Americans belong to Evangelical churches where the Bible is taken literally. This suggests that almost half of the churchgoers who reject evolution do so not because it disagrees with the Bible, but because it disagrees with their personal view of humanity's place in the scheme of things -- that humans are special.

Darwin is remembered as a great thinker because he saw that pure random variation was enough to allow natural selection to work. If he had said that supernaturally guided variation created the biological world, nobody would know his name today because that theory has no explanatory power. It just pushes the puzzle off into the never-never-land of the supernatural.

The evidence that Darwin began to marshal and that other scientists have accumulated over the nearly 150 years since he published The Descent of Man not only shows how humans descended from ape-like ancestors by a combination of random variation and natural selection. It also implies that the specific outcome of the human species, or any species for that matter, came about by chance. Humans evolved due to luck, not divine purpose. This fact is fundamentally destructive to what every religion teaches about humanity.

In his 2003 book Life's Solution: Inevitable Humans in a Lonely Universe, paleontologist Simon Conway Morris claimed that evolution converges on certain solutions. However, it's a huge jump from simple convergence, which is the most the data imply, to the inevitably of humans that Conway Morris claims in his title. Convergence is fully consistent with basic Darwinism (See Jerry Coyne, Why Evolution is True).

Several prominent biologists are devout believers as well as articulate defenders of evolution, although they are part of a small minority. In 2005, a federal court in Dover, PA, ruled that the teaching of intelligent design in the Dover public schools was unconstitutional. One of the star witnesses for the plaintiffs was biologist and Catholic Kenneth Miller. In his 1999 book, Finding Darwin's God, Miller argued that God could still be behind the randomness in evolution. As I point out in Quantum Gods, however, Miller's god is a "God who plays dice" that bears no resemblance to the Abrahamic God who plays a very active role in the universe and in human lives.

Likewise, the current director of the National Institutes of Health and previous administrator of the Human Genome Project, Francis Collins, also sees God as the author of evolution. In his 2006 bestseller The Language of God, in a section on "Theistic Evolution," Collins writes:

God, who is not limited in space or time, created the universe and established natural laws that govern it. Seeking to populate this otherwise sterile universe with living creatures, God chose the elegant mechanics, of evolution to create microbes, plants, and animals of all sorts. Most remarkably, God intentionally chose the same mechanism to give rise to special creatures who would have intelligence, a knowledge of right and wrong, free will, and a desire to seek fellowship with Him (pp. 200-201, first edition).

He doesn't tell us how he knows all this.

Most scientists and science organizations in America wish to stay on good terms with the believing majority, and so the fundamental incompatibility between random evolution -- which is what science says happened -- and divinely-guided evolution -- for which no evidence exists -- is kept under wraps. However, the time has come for scientists and their societies to face up to the fundamental incompatibility between naturalist and theistic evolution.

 
 
 
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Every major scientific society has affirmed that all our knowledge of biological science convincingly supports evolution by natural selection and cannot be understood without it. At the same time, the...
Every major scientific society has affirmed that all our knowledge of biological science convincingly supports evolution by natural selection and cannot be understood without it. At the same time, the...
 
 
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Jules Manson
Libertarian for Positive Political Change
02:05 AM on 11/03/2012
The Facts of Evolution

The dictionary has more than one definition for most words. This means that the correct meaning must be selected for a word based on context. The use of theory by laymen really only means hypothesis. When the word theory is used by scientists it means facts based on observable evidence. Hence the theory of evolution really means the facts of evolution.

Our resolve to deny the facts of evolution means that since Charles Darwin we dismiss the hard work of many scientists from different fields of science who accumulated mountains of evidence. Let us also not overlook the fact that medical science applies the facts of evolution all the time to arrive at effective treatments and immunizations for many different diseases. This is especially true of the influenza and HIV viruses which persist in evolving before our very eyes.

By following the doctrines of the Islamic, Judaic, or Christian faiths, we all rely on the very same authors for our moral and spiritual guidance who also advocated rape, pedophilia, misogyny, barbaric torture, murder, racism, war, genocide, and enslavement. We also entrust such authors to reveal the origins of the universe, life, and everything else with fantasies and myths. Every single detail that it attempts to explain about the cosmos has been proven to be wrong by science or is impossible to prove because of the rules of logic — all of it. The entire thing is false. How much more evidence do we need?
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03:29 PM on 11/02/2012
Science cannot prove or disprove the existence of a deity, but it can easily prove that no communication has ever existed between Man and a god, any god, let alone with extra-terrestrial life forms.
From this, a simple principle arises. Inaccessism is a new principle that stipulates that no one and no religion, has ever communicated with god (any god) and therefore, by complete lack of access to divinities, no one knows who, what or where, a god might be and what He/She/It could possibly want. This principle nullifies, Ipso Facto, any authenticity, authority or validity of any and all scriptures (From a new E-book called “Religion Proof” [August 2011], available on Amazon kindle, with a free sample).
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12:05 AM on 11/01/2012
INTELLIGENT RE-DESIGN

So what is this about design?
Does nature know how to design
A grape that will make a good wine?
Did God design a Chardonnay,
Or just send Chemistry our way?
Or is it just that they ferment,
Is this process intelligent?

What ever form God’s purpose took,
The fossil record is His book.
Why then would God design a bird
Made with a tail and teeth, my word,
Only a mad man would invent,
If flying was his sole intent,
Do you find this intelligent?

The fossils teach us that this God
Is neither mischievous or fraud.
All rocks are piled from old to young.
In these you’ll find a fish with lung.
Why would a God benevolent
Design a fish so indigent?
Would you call this intelligent?

Of God one day Einstein had said
God did not fall down on His head.
If God, the world, He really made
No mischief has He ever played.
The fossils are His monument
We should rejoice and be content.
This is what is intelligent.

Fossils do not embellish rocks,
They serve geologists as clocks.
There is in this some harmony;
In order of complexity,
They show the course of life’s event;
Evolution is how things went;
This is what is intelligent.

The Universe was not designed.
We should leave this concept behind.
Though complex is the universe,
No man can say he can converse,
With any force benevolent,
Or even one malevolent.
This does not seem intelligent?
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03:20 PM on 11/02/2012
last stanza:

Complexity is not purpose.
Intelligence is willingness
To see the world as rational,
Excluding supernatural.
Striving to make all men content,
Serving justice without relent,
This is what is intelligent.
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12:03 AM on 11/01/2012
Sister Giraffe

Sister giraffe, you are so strange.
I know that you underwent change.
Sister giraffe, could we be kin?
Where did our ancestors begin?

That we are kin some would deny.
They say relations are a lie.
Nothing of you is there in us.
For wrong reasons they make a fuss.

When I look at our vertebrae,
I look and see the same array.
Though longer ones you have to par,
Identical numbers there are.

The same about our ribs is true.
There is in this fact nothing new.
Each human has the same twelve pairs:
Trait with many mammals he shares.

If Adam gave one up for Eve,
Myth that some people do believe,
It’s not a transmittable trait.
It’s time we finally got this straight.

There is no abyss between us.
The fossil record’s syllabus
Shows that we all originate
From the same pool of aggregate.

We’re not made of silver or gold.
Same chemicals our bodies hold
As those of all other beings,
Making them and us all Earthlings.

Man did not drop down from above
Like some supernatural dove,
With wings and some freakish body:
Without his brain he’s nobody.

Those who deny evolution,
Because of some obscure notion,
The chemicals that are in us
Make their arguments vacuous.

Nothing of you there’s not in me.
Everything of you there’s in me.
No matter how one may begin,
Yes sister giraffe, we are kin.
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11:58 PM on 10/31/2012
It should seem obvious that Science which deals with Natural Phenomena has no compatibility with Religion that deals with supernatural phenomena.
As for the idea that a supernatural divinity would create the world and Man as his supreme being or final purpose of his creation makes no sense. Creationists and ID-ists point to some sort of manifest intelligence in the "Design" and some sort of Complexity that points to purpose. But, is the Universe Intelligent because it is complex, or is it complex because it is intelligent?
Either way, neither Intelligence nor Complexity are a purpose in themselves, by any stretch of the imagination.
As for the concept of an all-loving and all-powerful deity, where does Predation fall into this loving concept and why does this omnipotent deity not exterminate by a simple miracle the viruses and other disease-causing parasites that kill thousands of innocent children every day?
03:24 PM on 10/18/2012
Let's assume that the neo-Darwkinian theory of evolution is correct (notwithstanding Professor James Shapiros views on the matter) and sharpen the Professor's question.

Does the SYSTEM for how life developed proposed by the neo-Darwinian theory of evolution look like it was designed.

Note how I phrased the question. Those random mutations in the theory of evolution or a particular element in a system - one that includes cells, DNA and a sophisticated eco-system.

As such, one needs to ask questions about the system as a whole. Will any old eco-system do, how did the first cell develop, how random can the random mutations be, etc. If it turns out that those elements have to be very exactly set in order for the system to work, then yes the theory is compatible with the notion of a Divine creator (with the Creator being the one who set up the system as a whole). In fact, it would actually indicate a Creator.

One possible test to address this question would be to create a computer model of evolution. How much design, intelligence and forethought need to go into the model.
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Rick-K
Reality is not optional
10:09 AM on 10/20/2012
Epic logic failure. Because it takes intelligent thought to model a system does not mean the system was intelligently designed. It takes intelligent thought to model the interaction of two molecules. Does that prove the molecules were intelligently designed? No.

Humans see patterns in random information all the time. We are hard-wired to ascribe "agents" to things that happen in nature, even to events that are clearly random.

Humans have a LONG track record of attributing natural events to supernatural agents. A few examples are:

The Sun - was a god, now a ball of fusing hydrogen
The Moon - was a god(dess), now a big round dusty rock
The stars - were gods or spirits, more flaming gas balls
The tides - were attributed to gods, now gravity
The seasons - attributed to gods, now Earth's tilt
Earthquakes - were caused by gods, now plate tectonics
Volcanoes - were angry gods, now moving magma
Lightning - was thrown by a god, now static electricity
Rain & drought - was God, now atmospheric moisture
Health & disease - was God, now germs & genetics
Schizophrenia - was demonic possession, now brain chemicals
Epilepsy - was divine possession, now neurology

What makes you right when so many before you have been wrong using exactly the same argument?
05:32 PM on 10/21/2012
The question was one of compatibility - if a system looks like it could be designed then it is compatible with the notion of an intelligent designer.
With that said, here is a more detailed response to your comment which discusses the issue indpendent of the question of compatibility:
YOU WROTE:Epic logic failure. Because it takes intelligent thought to model a system does not mean the system was intelligently designed. 
MY RESPONSE:I think you are confusing whether or not it means that it was intelligently designed and whether or not it implies or indicates that it was intelligently designed.  One can speculate on non-intelligent alternatives, but one needs to give a reason to take that speculative alternatives seriously.  The reason to consider a Designer as the ultimate source is because the system in and of itself implies it.  

YOU WROTE:It takes intelligent thought to model the interaction of two molecules. Does that prove the molecules were intelligently designed? No.
MY RESPONSE:The question is what do you mean by the word prove.  If you mean a mathematical proof, then you may be right.  If, on the other hand, the question is whether or not molecules imply (ultimately speaking) some sort of intelligent creator, I would say the answer is clearly yes.  The interactions of molecules and the laws of nature which govern atoms are rather sophisticated systems.  

YOU WROTE:Humans see patterns in random information all the time. We are hard-wired to ascribe "agents" to things that happen in nature,
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Hakulanni
As an Independent, I despise both parties equally!
08:19 AM on 10/13/2012
The more I read about these theories, the more I see a full retreat of the West toward full Theist abandon. In the US, proof of the condition and behavior of the leaders of the church (all of them, no difference in their myriad interpretations) brings forth the exodus from faith. In other countries, Religion is used to justify torture, killing and poverty as they claim it's the opposite doing it. Evolution vs Creationism? Let them engage and destruct one another. I will simply watch from afar, iced tea in hand and crumpets for the show.
08:55 AM on 10/13/2012
You're ignorant; denial of evolution is only common in the US, not 'the West' in general.

Where are you from, Timbuktu? You write English pretty well for someone observing 'from afar' (hint: New Jersey is considered part of the US).
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Hakulanni
As an Independent, I despise both parties equally!
09:21 AM on 10/13/2012
Well, Huffpobag (may be a more apt name for you), not only do you choose my opinion on evolution for me, although I don't remember asking you but you also engage in a little Ethnophobia. Debating who is more ignorant, in your case is a mute point since your rant clearly, is so revealing. Wipe the foam off your lips... it's showing.
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Maezeppa
Happy-Happy Joy-Joy
03:49 PM on 10/13/2012
Unfortunately, the cancer is spreading.  Christian missionaries in the Middle East have been ginning up creationism for the last two or three decades.
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wisdom4you
wisdom is/ = alter ego perspectives :-)
05:57 AM on 10/13/2012
No, period. You are telling me that 84% of the population are ignorant. To have so called 'faith in', and or even believe there is a 'god', you cannot believe in the rules of nature, and they do not. It is that simple.
04:39 PM on 10/12/2012
Our friend Vector Stenger tells us why evolution is good and right, but when it comes to why it is supposed to conflict with religion, he tells us it is because evolution happens by chance.

If you believe that pure chance is the scientific explanation of evolution, then I would have to start talking about cloud-cuckoo land. Stenger might want to look back on what he learned when he was doing physics. There, chance, among other things, is what drives systems into higher level states otherwise inaccessible. Those higher level states, not surprisingly, have to obey the laws of the universe, just as chance does.

So, Stenger might want to reconsider his explanation for evolution - either that or give up claiming to be a physicist. (Maybe I should remind him that physicists emphasis physical law as to why things come into being, not chance.)

Reminds me of that great quote: "The devil made me do it!" I hope Stenger doesn't mind if I put words in his mouth: "Chance made me do it!"
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Maezeppa
Happy-Happy Joy-Joy
12:46 AM on 10/13/2012
We all agree evolution is subject to the laws of physics and chemistry but clearly 'the specific outcome of the human species, or any species for that matter, came about by chance.'
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wisdom4you
wisdom is/ = alter ego perspectives :-)
06:02 AM on 10/13/2012
Maezeppaa ... no, the so called religious do NOT believe in the rules of nature.
11:11 AM on 10/13/2012
Scientists know it is impossible to explain anything scientifically entirely by chance - by definition, chance it is not lawlike.

But every physicist, biophysicist, environmental scientist, biologist, economist, and engineer knows that chance is an essential part of any real world phenomena. So yes, "specific" outcomes will have chance components.

Consider two examples. My Prius might have a bad battery - that's chance variation. When designing my Prius, Toyota's engineers might have tried a wide variety of different recipes. That's like duplicating the process of natural selection - i.e., the role of chance. But, the underlying mechanism is - to use an evolutionary concept - goodness of fit.

Darwin's picturing of evolution came in large part from his knowledge of how breeders purposely work to develop plants and animals. Instead of purpose-driven guidance from intellect, he substituted the so-called "invisible hand" from Adam Smith via economics and Malthus via scarcity arguments. That's the chance-like component.

But the underlying explanations - as for my Prius - are the mechanisms and capabilities built into organic molecules, cell and multiple cell structures, DNA, self-sustaining biological system capable of harvesting energy, etc. Chance is just a means to access and try out different solutions and see which has the best fit.
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taoistpunk
because the monks wouldn't have me..
05:20 AM on 10/13/2012
i hope SF doesn't mind me putting words in his mouth: "i like to make arguments where i imply a lot, but where i don't say anything...it makes me feel so muscular!"

thanks SF..your ego has been noted.
12:45 PM on 10/13/2012
Hi my friend:

Can you state your ideas in a - errh - slightly more muscular (i.e., non-content free) - way.

Don't worry - just try to say what you are thinking about the subject at hand (not the author).
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KevinNevada
Just the facts, ma'am.
01:29 PM on 10/12/2012
Evolution may or may not be compatible with certain religions.

But the problem lies on the religious side here. Evolution is a factual reality, so the burden falls upon the religions, to deal with this reality, or eventually to face a decline.

The Catholics seem to be doing a decent job of this accommodation, and the Dalai Lama also. Some others are making quite silly choices. Such is life. Perhaps "Natural Selection" also applies to churches. Now there is a thought.

Meanwhile, I am still reacting to the discovery of that planet made of diamond. Wow!
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wisdom4you
wisdom is/ = alter ego perspectives :-)
06:04 AM on 10/13/2012
Kevin?? the catholics??? you cannot be serious.
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Maezeppa
Happy-Happy Joy-Joy
03:56 PM on 10/13/2012
They do.   Catholics are free to interpret Genesis as a parable and not as a literal creation account.
08:41 AM on 10/13/2012
The Catholic church's position - at least under JP2 - was 'progressive' when compared to Bible Belt fundamentalism, but still - frankly - retarded when judged on its own merits. The Catholic Church's position (under JP2 - Ben seems to have walked it back a bit) is that evolition happenned but was somehow guided by an incredibly inefficient diety to eventually produce Mel Gibson. This isn't an acceptance of evolution so much as it is a new 'theory' altogether: evolution by supernatural selection and non-random mutation.
11:28 AM on 10/12/2012
Immanuel Kant on the compatibility of Evolution with the possibility of Intelligent Design:

"Provided the cause in the appearance is distinguished from the cause of the appearance (so far as it can be thought as a thing in itself), both propositions are perfectly reconcilable: the one, that there is nowhere in the sensuous world a cause (according to similar laws of causality), whose existence is absolutely necessary; the other, that this world is nevertheless connected with a Necessary Being as its cause (but of another kind and according to another law). The incompatibility of these propositions entirely rests upon the mistake of extending what is valid merely of appearances to things in themselves, and in general confusing both in one concept."

http://www.thefourprecepts.com/propublish/art.php?artid=134
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KevinNevada
Just the facts, ma'am.
01:21 PM on 10/12/2012
Kant predated the entire productive life of Charles Darwin, and certainly would have adjusted his thoughts if he knew what Darwin and Wallace discovered, decades after his death, half a century before the publication of "On the Origins of Species".

The brilliant insights of the scientists rendered the speculations of the philosopher, somewhat moot. If we can account for natural forms without magical intervention, as evolution does so well, then by the simpler actions of Occam's Razor, that magical intervention becomes irrelevant.

Kant may well have agreed with this, had he the chance.
01:51 PM on 10/12/2012
Certainly Kant would have appreciated Darwin's discovery, but it takes nothing away from Kant's project which is, in part, to make room for faith by limiting knowledge. He does not claim to "know" anything about God, Freedom, or Immortality, but given the distinction between "appearances" and "the thing in itself", there is no necessary contradiction between faith/morality and our knowledge of appearances (which presupposes the a priori "forms of sensible intuition" and "categories of the understanding"). See also the graphic in this essay:
http://www.thefourprecepts.com/propublish/art.php?artid=72
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Maezeppa
Happy-Happy Joy-Joy
12:47 AM on 10/13/2012
Intelligent Design is indeed religious and invalidated as a science.
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Marc Bartkowiak
Follow the US Constitution- be progressive!
03:49 AM on 10/12/2012
It's a good question.
Are science and mythology compatible?
Or does mythology just make things up to claim absolute knowledge of things until science can come up with a reality-based answer?
I think I know.
Apparently, at least 40% of Americans are in complete denial, however.
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wisdom4you
wisdom is/ = alter ego perspectives :-)
06:07 AM on 10/13/2012
Mark, wrong, it is 84%.
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shatterkane
My microbio has become sentient.....Hi
09:43 PM on 10/11/2012
If there is something to measure or observe that is science. Supernatural is not observable or measurable. They will not cross over each other. So you can have your cake and eat it too.
02:55 AM on 10/12/2012
You can... at the price of cognitive dissonance bordering on mental illness.

That's neither smart nor healthy.

:-)
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Arturo Ramrez
10:26 AM on 10/12/2012
That's assuming that we're not made for (ok, teleological, just using those worse for sake of clarity, not because I'm talking about design or purpose) to live with that. And considering that religion and logic have both existed since humans are humans (some might argue that even before that) it seems that we are capable of it. I am not an acomodationist, I am open about my atheism, as you might know by now, but I have no issues with people having a religion as long as they don't use it to deny reality or justify injustice.
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Victor Stenger
Physicist, bestselling author.
05:41 PM on 10/12/2012
If the supernatural produces something observable, then that can be studied by science. That's why God is a failed hypothesis. He should have produced a testable observation by now and has not.
09:24 PM on 10/12/2012
Try this approach:

The Primacy of Consciousness - Peter Russell

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-d4ugppcRUE

"The knower and the known are one. Simple people imagine that they should see God as if he stood there and they here. This is not so. God and I, we are one in knowledge." ~ Meister Eckhart
IWantTofu
Evolution. Now a political position.
06:19 PM on 10/11/2012
Evolution is a scientific theory which is a non-supernatural explanation for observed events. Religion is the belief in the supernatural (or a supernatural). Hence, the question of whether evolution is compatible with religion is meaningless. It is like asking the question, "what is better, the color red or the sound of thunder?"
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wisdom4you
wisdom is/ = alter ego perspectives :-)
06:20 AM on 10/13/2012
lWantTofu ... no. So called religion requires 'faith', and most certainly not belief. Your question, what is better, is a fraud question. Religion does not exist to be compared with evolution.
09:00 AM on 10/13/2012
No, it's not simply a matter of preference. There is evidence for evolution and NONE for 'religion'.
IWantTofu
Evolution. Now a political position.
06:09 PM on 10/11/2012
God works in mysterious ways. The quesiton isn't if evolution is compatible with religion, but if relgion is compatible with evolution. Evolution, being a scientific theory, is a non-supernatural explanation for observed events. Religion, is the belief in a supernatural thing. It is the religous that must determine whether the scientific theory is compatible with religion. Evolution by it's definition, does not include the supernatural. It's like asking if music is compatible with a deaf person. It's a meaningless question for someone that can't hear.
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wisdom4you
wisdom is/ = alter ego perspectives :-)
06:22 AM on 10/13/2012
lWantTofu .... no. Your question is clearly a fraud question.
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Hakulanni
As an Independent, I despise both parties equally!
08:30 AM on 10/13/2012
"God works in mysterious ways" is the key to your thesis, which essentially claims "I don't understand it, therefore I believe - I hope it turns out well, therefore I have faith..." Wake up, the Sun rises in the East, in a never ending spiral, only to us at that point, in the West...
10:06 AM on 10/13/2012
I thought you weren't from 'the West'?

[Slip up!]