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Victor Udoewa

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More Science or More Arts & Humanities?

Posted: 01/11/2012 11:16 am

I am sitting at a dinner party full of lawyers, scientists and artists. An interesting debate breaks out between the "arts and letters" of academia and science. One charismatic lawyer starts it.

"We really need more scientists in the United States. Everything is better with science and we really lack the number of scientists we need for us to have a good, healthy strong society. Our country is suffering because we need more science."

Interestingly enough, a physicist disagrees. "That's not true. We don't live properly with the science we do have. We could have a huge impact on our society by making some major changes in the way we live. To that end, what we lack is motivation on a soul level. The impact of a good song or poetry can change a country."

The lawyer laughs. "You actually think that? The impact of a poet or artist doesn't compare to the impact of a scientist. A society can function without the arts, but we depend so much on science that we need more of it. Society is most impacted by science."

The physicist contradicts her. "We actually have all the science we need at the moment. The problems in the world are due to the fact that we don't know how to properly use it. We don't live sustainably and we've lost our connection to the world. Poets and artists can make just as big of an impact (and even bigger) than science. You just don't realize it."

I decide not to partake in the argument as I learn more by listening to both sides, but it seems to me that one version of the question is whether science is inherently good or bad. I was reminded of this again while scouring the Templeton Foundation site for possible grant opportunities and happened upon a current grant award made to a Danish institute exploring the question "How is knowledge about science a good thing for religious practice or theology?" The Danish National Church's Institute for Theological Education seems to understand the importance of a scientific understanding for those in religious studies and theology. Through science we learn critical thinking and logical, analytical reasoning (important to religious studies), as we are informed about the natural order of the world and what is currently explicable according to natural laws. But what if it is equally important for those in science to study the humanities including religion?

This is what my friend, Ross, said to me on an arduous hike in a South African mountain range one morning. "Scientists need to study the humanities," my friend told me, "otherwise, you end up with things like the atomic bomb." That is when I realized that, just like religion, science has produced good and bad. As someone who has worked to detect and stop chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear, and explosive weapons, I have seen the bad. So I know science is not enough. "Science gives man knowledge that is power," Martin Luther King, Jr. once said. "Religion gives man wisdom that is control." Whether you get that wisdom from religion or elsewhere, it seems clear to me that perhaps we do need wisdom in the application of science. Perhaps scientists should study the humanities.

Scientists should study language to better communicate scientific results and implications especially to non-scientists. Such work naturally leads to the social science of communication studies. Science communication helps include all of society in the scientific dialogue and aids the inclusion of science in the societal dialogue. Scientists should study history to learn of the past uses of sciences. Through such studies, hopefully, lessons are learned to prevent or at least dissuade the misuse of science to bad ends. Though judging a particular use of science as good or bad depends on the adjudicator, scientists should study philosophy, law, and religion to learn of the different ideas and concurrence of goodness, justice, law, and truth. This guides and directs the use of science. Scientists should also study religion to learn about how to be relevant to communities of faith especially in areas such as international development when so much use of science in development involves rebuilding communities in which religious groups form the foundation. (History, law, and philosophy are also considered social sciences as well as humanities, but their importance is still relevant.)

With the plethora of both good and bad products of science, I can throw away dualistic thinking and realize that science is neither good nor bad. Science is neutral. It is the application of science that is good or bad. One definition of wisdom is the proper application of knowledge, and we need wisdom in the application of scientific knowledge. A study of the humanities (including religion) towards the purpose of good applications of science is a good thing. Back to our dinner party question: maybe we need both -- more science but always accompanied by even more arts and letters.

 
 
 
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c-tom
Badges we don't need no stinking badges
01:43 AM on 01/20/2012
"That is when I realized that... science has produced good and bad." Really you just realized that. And your day job is for giving advice on technology
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Juanne Michaud
Proud Canadian, loony lefty
07:35 PM on 01/16/2012
It wouldn't hurt for scientists to study art (thus speaks the artist here) as well. Not history or techniques, per se, but simply learn to see, to appreciate the beauty that is all around us. A drop of rain; a sparrow's feather; a blade of grass; all have elegance and beauty that are often overlooked. A sense of wonder and beauty can add enjoyment to your work.

Writing (saith the writer) is also recommended; it stretches the imagination. I know being imaginative is not something that is often associated with science, but sometimes, making that intuitive "leap" or thinking sideways is what it takes to solve a problem.

In addition to all of the above, studying the above, as well as philosophy, spirituality, history and the other humanities tends to make one a well-rounded, interesting human being.

Always a plus.
08:46 PM on 01/14/2012
The Arts are good, Science is good, Religion and humanist philosophies are pure bullocks with no basis in reality, and the Templeton Foundation is a major proponent of pushing such stupidity.

Science can not solve the world's problems on it's own, or we could solve many of the major ones, but that's where Art, real art, comes into play - providing a medium that promotes difficult solutions to even more difficult problems in a way the masses can relate to.

The humanities(which are different than the arts) are a different animal and often contradict scientific fact/reality. There are several examples of the masses using really bad science fiction (Brave New World is my favourite example), as a guide for determining social policy - They wanted to ensure they would not live in such a world...but the alternative that I inherited is far, far worse.

Science can solve many problems, but it can not save humanity from itself as humans refuse to give up their pathetic hopes and dreams(most of which are enshrined in religion), the arts have the potential to give people new dreams which are in line with what is realistically possible, instead of promising them the world....after they have died, which is what religion does.
02:38 AM on 01/15/2012
Well, the only reason why you can say these things without being arrested, tortured and burned at the stake is... "humanist philosophy". You may want to think about that for a while.
bklynsparrow
creating reality from unreal things
05:00 PM on 01/15/2012
Great answer.
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BluePhantom2
The Blacksmith & the Artist reflected in their art
09:51 AM on 01/14/2012
Art, Science and education? We need a mix. There are way too many kids graduating with what my dad calls "Soft degrees". His description is a degree in something that will not feed you or your family. I'm all for Art or Humanities degrees but those degrees rarely build or make anything that will feed that person. The OWS movement seems a perrfect example of people who got degrees (And the loans associated with) that can't get a job in their chosen field.
08:53 PM on 01/14/2012
Here is a prime example of a problem science can't solve - The masses desire to have and support families, which is the last thing this planet needs.

Even if every scientist on the planet worked 24/7, and all of us got incredibly lucky in solving global problems the masses and their crotch droppings would wipe out our gains faster than we could come up with them.

So let people find contentment in music,or paintings, instead of family life.... such things are infinitely less destructive.
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BluePhantom2
The Blacksmith & the Artist reflected in their art
10:06 PM on 01/15/2012
0 Population always the intent of the green movement. You fail to realize that man is as much a part of nature as anything else.
been2there
Facts have a liberal bias.
10:00 PM on 01/12/2012
When I was in graduate school (for plant pathology), I was surprised to discover that 90% of the departments people, including teachers, students, and staff, musical. The other five were creative writers or painters. The graduate physics, chemistry, and geology departments also had very high percentages of musicians, and nearly everyone else was a writer or artist. I read, shortly after that, that the best student orchestras in the country, outside of music conservatories, were places like Cal Tech and MIT. Band is associated with a 5% increase in test scores across all socioeconomic levels.
In short, we need both.
04:36 PM on 01/12/2012
As a scientist and writer, I would argue that a great deal of those who are accomplished in the scientific field ARE actively involved in the arts. A large number of my colleagues are musicians, artists, writers, etc. "Scientist" to me invokes the image of someone with a natural curiousity and interest in their surroundings, and the field usually attracts expressive, motivated individuals who are connected to their environment who want to learn more about it.

Shouldn't we be cultivating those underlying characteristics found in both science and the arts - appreciation for beauty, curiousity, etc. in the next generation and let career paths lead where they will?
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08:02 AM on 01/14/2012
Scientists should have the wherewithal to train themselves in the arts.
10:41 AM on 01/14/2012
I agree - and I'm asserting that most of them do.

I was talking about cultivating those interests in the next generation - supporting their natural curiosity and appreciation for their surroundings and not caring whether or not they express it in the form of researching it or writing songs about it.
03:49 PM on 01/12/2012
Not sure what kind of physicists you know... surely not the mainstream kind.

A good song changes the world for three minutes. A good physics discovery changes the world forever.

So I suggest the humanities go back to changing the world their way and the physical science do their thing. We will meet, again, in one hundred years, and compare the impact of songs to, say, nano-technology and more efficient solar panels.

Fair?
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dmgoss
Sapere Aude
05:35 PM on 01/12/2012
Bit of a hollow argument there. Curious to know how you feel about the social impact and general value of Shakespeare, say, or Dostoevsky, or rock and roll? If you truly believe aesthetic artifacts or social phenomenon have such little importance in regards to the actual quality of human life, why is it that humankind repeatedly seeks to explain its surroundings in such a fashion? Why, for instance, do they insist on color enhancing the pictures of astrological formations? Or bothering to create so much software geared towards the creation of music and illustration? There's a professor at UC Davis who recently published a book on nanotechnology. Guess what department he works for?

http://english.ucdavis.edu/people/directory/milburn
01:35 AM on 01/13/2012
Not at all. Please look at the 16th and 17th century songs that changed the world and are still being sung today. I probably know one... Greensleeves. Now look at Galileo's, Kepler's and Newton's discoveries. They really changed the world completely.

Do I love Shakespeare? Absolutely. He is fun to read and watch. But did anybody get better by reading Shakespeare? How many people got better by taking antibiotics?

The problem here is not one of relative cultural value. The problem here is the ridiculousness of the comparison. We need both. But only one makes life physically better. And only if the lives of the masses are physically better can they enjoy the arts. If they want to, that is. Most don't even care.

"Why, for instance, do they insist on color enhancing the pictures of astrologic­al formations­?"

Scientists do not enhance the colors of "astrological" formations. Astrology is not science. It's, at best, an industry to take money from the mentally poor. Now, scientists do not enhance colors of astronomical objects for science very much, either. That's not how image analysis for science works.

They do it for communicating the information contained in spectral channels to the public, though. And that is a good way of demonstrating, for educational purposes, what is out there.

Colin Milburn's books are not science books, they are meta-science books... books about science. That's not the same thing.
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09:11 AM on 01/14/2012
How many actually understand the language of Shakespeare? How many understand his classical and religious allusions? How many understand the underlying classical structure of the text? Very few. Therefore, any social impact is based on a superficial reading or complete misunderstanding. Given that, what is the status of its social impact; what is its value?

Aesthetics is subjective. The fine arts are elitist (that is not a criticism); specifically, they are only important to those who have the time, inclination and education to appreciate. Of course, the arts can be enjoyed by everyone and anyone but any impact is only transitory. Despite the fantasy of a number of academics, art for the masses is not a reality, and is essentially irrelevant. In my local pub, an argument over Botticelli’s Birth of Venus rarely leads to a fight (Masaccio is another matter).

“[H]umankind repeatedly seeks...” A few hardly constitutes totality.

“[S]o much software.” What’s that in quantitative terms? You’re vague overstatement means nothing. This software is only relevant to a tiny minority of professional users and enthusiastic amateurs/ hobbyists. In the scheme of things, it is insignificant.

“[T]actical media signifies the intervention and disruption of a dominant semiotic regime...technocultural forms...transitory sites of immanent critique.” Milburn, C - Art in the Age of Nanotechnology. This is Pseudo-scientific, structuralist/post-structuralist bulls**t.
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c-tom
Badges we don't need no stinking badges
01:33 AM on 01/20/2012
How exactly does Newton's theory of gravity change the life of the average person? I can't think of anything I'd have done differently had I not been aware of that theory.
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quorthon
Big government IS the answer!
02:09 PM on 01/12/2012
Yay, another tired debate. No idea is more muddling and ironically un-scientific than that calling for a singular explanation for everything. Being a well-educated person involves familiarity with all areas of inquiry, including those not typically placed under the rubric of 'science'. Otherwise, you are just a technician.
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PhilosopherJon
Just self-sustaining chemistry.
11:01 AM on 01/12/2012
The "wisdom that gives control" is part of reason. Wisdom that gives you the "right" control - ethics- is also part of reason and science; We experience values and facts similarly within the brain, and we can use science to find which ways of living provide the most valuable experience. We built weapons of mass destruction through advanced science, but turning to the humanities doesn't provide the wisdom and values to not use the weapons, reason and all the evolutionarily encoded thinking processes will decide what happens with those weapons. We should turn to science illuminate such processes, to establish facts about our values. Obviously people are averse to total destruction, and feel for others...I don't need some poetry, or history lesson to be compelled to stop destruction. Just the science informing me of my empathy and aversions is enough to know the right thing to do.

I love humanities though.
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quorthon
Big government IS the answer!
01:59 PM on 01/12/2012
No. Ethics is inherently practical, and therefore not encoded anywhere. Hence humanities.
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08:03 AM on 01/12/2012
"A society can function without the arts." Indeed, and lawyers function without ethics.
bklynsparrow
creating reality from unreal things
05:18 PM on 01/15/2012
Maybe it can, but what an awful society to live in.
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07:56 AM on 01/12/2012
In the UK, many leave school barely literate and innumerate. I suggest these areas are fundamental to a more general education. Therefore, to reach a high level children be taught exclusively to at least 11 years' old, going on to a broader curriculum at secondary/high school.

If one has a profound understanding of language and mathematics, I believe a self-taught level of that of a first year undergraduate - in any subject - is attainable. I'm ignoring the contribution of school, here, to make a point.
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Dan Jighter
11:11 AM on 01/12/2012
Yea, I think you have a point here. Whether we need to teach more humanities or more science... that's kind of getting ahead of ourselves. People don't know basic arithmetic and grammar and we want to move on to Plato? Putting the cart before the horse a bit.

Also, as I say below, with those who do come out of school literate and competent, they then go on to a decade worth of study, mostly in their field of expertise. And now we think scientists should also study history, philosophy, and religion? Beyond a superficial education, that's looking more like 12-15 years of education just to become what one is required of scientists.
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Dan Jighter
11:12 AM on 01/12/2012
A bit of realism is needed here. One doesn't need to know everything and of the things most everyday people or scientists need to know Plato just ain't one of them. If you manage to learn Plato, that's great, it's worth having a basic understanding of something beyond necessity and Plato is a fine choice. But maybe we should start with learning English, algebra, and the basics of the scientific method. Everyone should have that. Those inclined to spend (waste? :-D ) a decade doing more study humanities if that interests them and studies advanced science if that interests them, perhaps with a broad foundation in (and perhaps only in) their first year of college. After we are done teaching people what they NEED, then we can discuss Plato. Though I don't think anyone will have the time or interest after that, they kind of need to move on to careers and family.
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07:29 AM on 01/12/2012
Bad science is detrimental, good science advances. Bad religion is detrimental; good religion has never advanced.
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quorthon
Big government IS the answer!
02:10 PM on 01/12/2012
Bad Religion is a great band!
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03:00 AM on 01/13/2012
Two things with definitions that leave them incapable of touching each other, yet they aren't without similarities, huh?
07:19 AM on 01/12/2012
Kurt Vonnegut addressed this quite eloquently in some speeches collected in Wampeters, Foma, and Granfalloons. He came down pretty heavily on the science-is-bad side, though not because science is inherently bad; rather, because, as your physicist friend opined, scientists need to be trained in ethics, which they are not.
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08:01 AM on 01/12/2012
dharmadhatuzoo,

I can't accept that scientists working in the defence industries are oblivious of the ramifications of their work. I think their ethics are overridden by virtue of working at the cutting edge of science. I'm not making a judgement, here.
04:39 PM on 01/12/2012
"scientists need to be trained in ethics, which they are not."

Scientists undergo ethics training every year if their research deals in ANY way with human interaction (even if it's just blood samples/tissues)...ethics courses are mandated by the government ever since the Tuskegee experiment fiasco.
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Kenneth Knapp III
03:11 AM on 01/12/2012
When science makes a discovery that can change the world, it's big news, so everyone understands the impact it can have. The problem is that it usually has no impact at all; people read about the discovery, say it's interesting, and move on. We could already save the environment, solve world hunger, and other such things based on what we already know. We just aren't doing it. When an artist has an impact, you don't realize it's happening until it's over; they are the ones who make impassioned pleas that convince us to take what we know and do something about it.
12:06 AM on 01/12/2012
A physicit is a scientist and it would be obvious in that whole set up we need more scientist. Art is nice, but it does not cure illness or get us to the moon. 20artists on a desert island would be worth less than 1 scientist. Arts are fine for the people who are not mathmatically inclined, but a waste of money and educational resources for those who are.
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quorthon
Big government IS the answer!
02:11 PM on 01/12/2012
Can you imagine a world without art? Didn't think so...
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03:12 AM on 01/13/2012
Artist that can do math, right here.
Anyway, why do you think we bothered with actually going to the moon? Realistically, we didn't need to. We knew we could send people into space, we knew we could send objects into the moon's orbit. It was just a matter of engineering at that point. The answer is that fictitious tales of going to exotic new worlds caught people's imaginations. It didn't make them see the value of going to the moon; it created the value of going to the moon.

Why are people really excited about AI? Some old research paper? Nope. Things like "the Terminator," "the Matrix," "Deus Ex," "Mass Effect" - I believe I've listed those in the order they came. And even those who build AI now don't always focus on the purely scientific or practical. Sometimes they just make robots that play sports. Why do that? There are other more practical tasks they could focus on and learn more or less the same things from. But they didn't go into their field just because they were cold, calculative mathematicians. They have imagination, vivid personalities, vision.