Frank Talk on Race and Prop. 8

On Election Day, 70-percent of African Americans voted to take away a gay person's right to marry primarily based on a book -- the Bible -- that calls on slaves to obey their masters. Mormons funded the measure -- even though religious discrimination drove them from Missouri and Illinois in the 1830's.

The defeat of Proposition 8 can't be blamed exclusively on African Americans and Mormons. There were plenty of white Catholic and protestant religious leaders -- such as pastor Rick Warren of Saddleback Church -- that share responsibility. And, there are legitimate questions about how the No On 8 campaign was run, which will be endlessly debated. For example, did the campaign's decision to closet gay people in its ads lead to defeat?

Still, there is something particularly galling and repugnant about people who have felt the sting of discrimination, turn around and step on another minority. What happened at the ballot box feels like a personal betrayal and the hijacking of history.

To the Mormons who bankrolled the bigotry, religious discrimination is awful, as long as it is happening to them. For the black people who voted for Proposition 8, the civil rights movement was about emancipating black people - and no one else seems to matter. These solipsistic individuals and their prejudiced pastors appear to lack an ember of empathy and have turned freedom into a private fiefdom.

The civil rights movement was much larger than the plight of black people, just as the fight for religious freedom is bigger than Mormons. Martin Luther King Jr. had a dream that all people are equal under the law and should be judged by the content of their character. Barack Obama largely embodied this universally appealing message and this is why he made history. (His opposition to marriage the one duly noted stain on his record)

The Congressional Black Caucus, the late Coretta Scott King, basketball star Charles Barkley and Archbishop Desmond TuTu are among those who share this inclusive vision. Coretta Scott King once said that, "Homophobia is like racism and anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry in that it seeks to dehumanize a large group of people, to deny their humanity, their dignity and personhood."

In the next campaign, this message needs to be taken directly to African American voters. But before this happens, the GLBT community needs to have a serious discussion -- not one that is pandering and patronizing -- so we can figure out some solutions. When natural allies vote like enemies, there is much work to be done.

One person not to consult is black lesbian writer Jasmyne Cannick. In a hypocritical op-ed in the Los Angles Times, she said that the Prop 8. Campaign should have done more to reach out to black voters. Then, she turned around and said, "to tell black people how to vote on something gay isn't effective outreach either. There's nothing a white gay person can tell me when it comes to how I as a black lesbian should talk to my community about this issue."

This is a perversion of Dr. King's dream. A white person should be able to talk freely to a black person about discrimination and vice versa. Cannick's ideas are abhorrent and the antithesis of judging a person by their ideas or the content of their character. It is also shameful that Cannick claims that she went door-to-door on behalf of Obama and proudly refused to ask African Americans to vote against Proposition 8. Her actions were closeted and cowardly.

Cannick also asks, "Does someone who is homeless or suffering from HIV but has no healthcare, or newly out of prison and unemployed, really benefit from the right to marry someone of the same sex?"

Imagine how grotesque it would have been in 1965 if a black person had written:

"Does someone who is homeless or suffering from cancer but has no healthcare, or newly out of prison and unemployed, really benefit from the right to marry someone of a different race?"

Another way to stop progress is for those hurt by this stinging defeat to verbally or physically assault African Americans. There were reports that this was occurring at rallies condemning Prop. 8. Mirroring the ugly actions of anti-gay haters is anathema to what our movement stands for, which is widening the circle of liberty. We need to be smart, rational grownups and not look for scapegoats.

There is a lot of blame to go around for the failure of Proposition 8 and the first step to healing and moving forward is honesty. Let's not pretend that the repudiation of Martin Luther King Jr's dream by African American voters did not hurt more than, say, rejection by white evangelicals. It did.

Equal rights for some, or at least those who look the same or hold like beliefs -- is not the movement I signed up for, nor is it one that I want any part of. In moving forward, we must move beyond pig-headed parochialism and build a coalition that embraces a universal set of principles that apply to all people. If we stupidly divide ourselves by sexual orientation or race -- we can only expect a race to the bottom.

Follow Wayne Besen on Twitter: www.twitter.com/Truthwinout

Comments

[Speakupper]

Wayne Besen, My comment in 2 parts. (Here's Pt 1)...

"In the next campaign, this message needs to be taken directly to African American voters. But before this happens, the GLBT community needs to have a serious discussion -- not one that is pandering and patronizing -- so we can figure out some solutions. When natural allies vote like enemies, there is much work to be done."

Regarding Jasmyne Cannick, whom you quote in your post, if a black lesbian writer is not your natural ally who is? Yet, this serious discussion should exclude her?

A key challenge of coalition building is developing the fortitude to respect, include and listen to differing voices and points of view.

Her full article: http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-cannick8-2008nov08,0,3295255.story

Direct link: http://www.jasmynecannick.com

Forgive me if I double posted, the original seems to have been deleted.

[Dailyfare]

"For the black people who voted for Proposition 8, the civil rights movement was about emancipating black people - and no one else seems to matter."

Another full of BS statement. Even though civil rights legislation is often talked about as only having been for black people, the actual wording of the legislation has benefited most. White women as a group benefited greatly from civil rights legislation. So have Latinos, Asians and every other minority. White gay males have benefited far more from being white and male than they have been discriminated against for being gay.

Until the gay community stops the blame game and smartly starts understanding the complexities of the gay issue within the black community, they won't increase black support anytime soon.

[uheardme]

Wayne, where's the column on racism within the gay community???

[Speakupper]

Pt 2:

"One person not to consult is black lesbian writer Jasmyne Cannick. In a hypocritical op-ed in the Los Angles Times, she said that the Prop 8. Campaign should have done more to reach out to black voters. Then, she turned around and said, "to tell black people how to vote on something gay isn't effective outreach either. There's nothing a white gay person can tell me when it comes to how I as a black lesbian should talk to my community about this issue.""

1) You are telling an international audience that your "natural ally" should not to be consulted.
2) Do you decide who in the AA community is worthy of inclusion in the conversation?
3) You distort her message by quoting only a partial sentence. Original:

"Likewise, holding the occasional town-hall meeting in Leimert Park -- the one part of the black community where they now feel safe thanks to gentrification -- to tell black people how to vote on something gay isn't effective outreach either. "

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-cannick8-2008nov08,0,3295255.story

http://www.jasmynecannick.com

You spent your time attempting to ostracize an African American, lesbian writer who has the ear of the community you say you want to reach, but YOU feel HURT and BETRAYED?

Just what are the "universal set of principles" in that coalition you are building? This was painful to read.

Huffpo, please post Ms. Cannick's article. Her voice deserves to be heard unfiltered.

[NeoStar9]

Thank you. I read Jasmyne's original article on the LA Times site as well on her site. As soon as I saw how Besen cut up what she said and used it out of context it was clear as to what Besen was trying to do. What Ms. Cannick said in that part of her article I remembered. It really stood out to me. Mainly because I had to go look up what gentrification meant it wasn't something I used or so often. "Frank talk on Race and Prop 8." clearly is a lie as he went out of his way to distort what was being said.

The problem here is that the truth in the end hurts. However some don't want to face it. "No on Prop 8" did a horrible job in how they tried to present their case. Those on that side know this. They know how they personally might not have done enough or anything at all. I think part of their anger is directed at themselves yet don't want to face it. It's so much easier to simply lash out at others and blame others. However their first choice being blacks should be a wake up call to them and to everyone else. Their first action to to "blame" and feel "betrayed" while asking "why or how come they don't understand" not even coming to mind should really be addressed.

[NeoStar9]

Cont.

I feel gay marriage should be granted but that's me. So being AA I would have voted against Prop 8 if I lived in Cali however I would have done so not on any linking of the issue with Civil Rights. That annoys the hell out of me. Mainly because you can not hide the color of your skin. True I don't believe you can choose to be gay. You can't help who you are attracted to. However you do have a choice in letting your preference be known to others. Arguments of you shouldn't have to hide who you are aside, it is still a choice to let others knows. No one has to know. You can hide it but you can't hide the color of your skin. This is why I feel the two situations are similar at times there is no 1 to 1. I wish that would be understood.

I'll say it again. You have to explain your case and not simply try to link it to the Civil Rights movement and it's history. Saying that Blacks should know what Gays are going through isn't going to work. Do the outreach that wasn't there and don't assume anything just because of the history of another group.

[chibbles]

70% of AA voters in CALIFORNIA voted for Prop 8 not 70% of AA. I'm wondering why you lead with pointing out the 70% in the first paragraph then pulled an "oh but it wasn't just AA that voted for Prop 8" in the next paragraph? Taking lessons from the Right Wing faction in how to CYA? Are AA not allowed to vote their personal conscious? Are we now the voting sidekicks for everyone that feels they are being discriminated against? My ideological belief is that marriage is between a man and a woman but I think Prop 8 never should have made it onto the ballot. Did someone drop the ball on this one? I would like to read more on how this violation of civil rights occurred. I don't think it is AA that are responsible. Since when do we have that much power?

[gobamaaa]

Also, there's no need to blab on about how the bible says that slavery is ok (really, don't. don't belittle something that has such an overwhelming following. you may not understand religion, or in your anger you may feel compelled to dismiss it, but there is a reason why such a large percentage of the world practices it in some way) everyone knows that religious belief is based more on faith than reason. The task now is to demonstrate that this is a matter not of religious rights, but civil rights. The problem is that as black people in general (again, are you serious? you really want to condemn an entire race?) are being attacked for not standing by their fellow minorities, precious time that could be spend on educating people is being wasted. So to start a relevant discussion, I will put forward this brilliant quotation from President-elect Obama: "Politics depends on our ability to persuade each other of common aims based on a common reality. It involves the compromise, the art of what's possible. At some fundamental level, religion does not allow for compromise. It's the art of the impossible. If God has spoken, then followers are expected to live up to God's edicts, regardless of the consequences. To base one's life on such uncompromising commitments may be sublime, but to base our policy-making on such commitments would be a dangerous thing."

[gobamaaa]

I really don't understand the point of this article at all. Other than being patently offensive, it really doesn't do anything to advance a cause that is obviously very important. I was extremely dismayed upon hearing of the passing of this hateful statute. However, I am quite offended by the unnecessary scapegoating that is taking place in its aftermath. Don't you get that the fight against gay marriage is primarily a religious one?? You call black people (I won't even get into the fact that you are lumping an entire race together without regard for individual opinions and beliefs - that's a whole other problem) "repugnant" for voting in favor of the proposition. But what you fail to acknowledge is that most of the people who did vote yes did so with the guidance of the churches they belonged to. Furthermore, it has been proven time and time again that the campaign for prop 8 spent a lot of time spreading vicious lies about the implications of prop 8 and the effects it may have on children and so on. Just check out an episode of The View; two hosts argued that under this statute, pastors would be arrested for refusing to marry a homosexual couple. This shouldn't be a war against the blacks. The question now should be one of how to connect to those religious people who believe that they cannot support same-sex marriage.

[Syymone]

I feel many Blacks just don't like The Black Struggle to be compared to The Gay Struggle for obvious reasons. Blacks had a right just as every voter in California had to vote on this issue.It's appalling that after the ban was approved,that some gays revealed a racist element to themselves but honestly I wasn't shocked.

[antaeus]

What is inherently "racist" about looking at where the support for Prop. 8 came from? In 1994 California passed a very divisive proposition, 187, which was seen by many, especially the Latino community, to be bashing Latinos in a mean and divisive way. As a group, African Americans supported that proposition (which, incidentally, was later thrown out by federal court). Was it racist for society to discuss the reasons AA's supported 187? What makes a discussion of why different groups support different legislation "racist."

[Badbone]

"If we stupidly divide ourselves by sexual orientation or race -- we can only expect a race to the bottom."

Hmmm. Then why are we celebrating a black president, if we shouldn't divide by race? Why do colleges accept minorities with lower test scores, if we shouldn't divide by race?

I think what you are trying to say is that some discrimination is ok. For instance, gay pride parades are ok. They discriminate *for* a group you support. Prop 8 is discrimination *against* a group you support. So therefore it is evil and wrong and anyone who disagrees with you on this is an evil nazi hater.

Do I have that right?

[Nommo]

You must not have been around in 1965 to read some of the stuff that was written and said about Black people.

[uheardme]

No doubt said and written by a lot of gay white writers.

[Nommo]

LOL!

[Bakersman]

Thanks for the thoughtful piece. I agree with you. And I also found Ms. Cannick's op-ed piece to be ridiculous and contradictory. I'm the guy that can't tell her anything: gay and white. But I'm also the father of two African-American boys who will learn something she fails to understand - that there can be more than one civil rights struggle. I don't think what gays face today is the same as the black struggle, but that also doesn't make it less so. People who have been oppressed should know better and be more keenly atuned, not too busy with their own lives to care.

Also, twelve years of religious school and two years studying the Bible specifically to understand the text in it's original Greek and Aramaic allows me to say that most people don't understand the Bible. If you're going to follow the book, FOLLOW THE WHOLE BOOK. Cherry picking verses to define your faith is bogus and pathetic. And please DO NOT call yourself a Christian. Prop 8 is exactly the kind of thing Jesus Christ stood up against over and over in his life and ministry on Earth(amazing how few Christians actually follow his teachings or pattern their lives after his behavior...)

But this too shall pass. And other minority will be fighting for justice. I hope we all remember our lessons and are compassionate and Jesus-like.

[OhMyGoodness]

Let me make sure I understand. So because African Americans were oppressed we should vote against our conscious or beliefs for another group who believe themselves to be oppressed? Just because someone voted based on their understanding of the issue, belief system or whatever doesn't mean they don't understand what it's like to be discriminated against or oppressed. Did it ever cross your mind that the blacks who voted yes didn't see what homosexuals are going through as oppression?

[southernsepia]

One suggestion, stop trying to hi-jack the civil rights that the black community has suffered for hundreds of years to gain. Slavery, lynchings, Jim Crow equal pay for equal work - none of these struggles had any thing to do with whom we chose to marry. These were survival issues that blacks fought for.

When you equate your struggle to ours it comes off a little flat. When we marched no groups came out and helped us. We marched for our own liberation, we didn't attempt to climb on the backs of others.

When I hear the constant citing of civil rights as a reason to support this I am offended.

[stpintodalite]

Thank you! The civil rights movement was about addressing socio-economic apartheid that governed where people of color lived, worked, went to school, ate, and shopped. It was also about wage disparity, workplace discrimination, access to healthcare, the right to vote, lynchings and safety from mob violence. Who we married was also an issue but it was not central to the equality movement. There are definite similarities to the gay rights movement, but it is not the same. Skin color is immediately assessable, sexual preference is not.

[M1]

Gays pay more taxes than heterosexual couples period. Gay people are discrimated against in their employment, they have been beaten to death and also do not have the right to marry. Gays who kiss in public are immediately identifiable. Unable to hold hands with the warmth of sunlight on their faces. At work social ranking occurs and the lack a photo of their partner is telling. The hidden private life reveals sometime as much as overt color of the skin.

I think you just never thought about what it is like to be Gay and afraid to be attacked for being who you are with your partner or who you are in your Community that, if a minority community, will likely throw you out.

I think Martin Luther King was kinder than you.

[ProudLiberalDan]

Whether you are "offended" or not, this IS a civil rights issue, just like the suffragettes winning the right to vote for women is a civil rights issue.

Race, religion, gender and sexual orientation may all be different.

However, gays can still be fired without cause and denied housing in most states because of their sexual orientation. They can still be denied hospital visitation of their partners in most states.

Gays are still beaten and brutalized. An elderly gay couple in Ohio was killed two weeks ago.

Whether you like it or not, gay rights and gay equality is a civil rights issue. Not the same issue as race, but a civil rights issue nonetheless.

What offends me is people who cannot see that.

[OhMyGoodness]

Yes it is a civil rights issue but do not equate it with the civil rights movement of the 60's. That is offensive.

[CEKChuck]

You realize that just because the gay civil rights movement wasn't visibly born until the 1969, that discrimination based on sexual orientation has been around for ages? The one thing the Christian Conservative movement has right is that Chistianity has discriminated against gay people for thousands of years. We didn't just pop into existence with the Stonewall Riots (or if you are more versed in gay history, with the Homophile movement of the 40's and 50's). The power of Dr. King's words is that they transcend race and talk to to inherent equality of all people, and that is why we embrace them. To say they belong to African American's solely is to diminish them.

[RavenBassLady]

Just a quick comment-- and I'll preamble this by letting you know, I am Black, Female and a Lesbian.
I'm also old enough to remember the tail end of the Civil rights movement, and your comment that no other groups came out to help us is simply untrue. There were a lot of Whites and particularly Jews who came out of the woodwork to help us-- and actually one Jewish man was killed in Mississippi along with his Black fellow organizers. Also aid from the Quakers goes back before the Emancipation Proclamation-- they helped us with the Underground Railroad. Then add to that all the musicians and artists that took our side-- like Peter, Paul and Mary-- Joan Baez, Bob Dylan...

This bickering over who has the right to consider their civil rights struggle valid or not is a big waste of time, and a great gift to the Right-Wing. Divide and Conquer. This a time when we should be pulling together-- and instead we are fighting in a burning house.

[antaeus]

How do white gay activists speak to the (admittedly non-monolithic) black community?

To draw historical "analogy" is faulted as an attempt to "equate."
Head scratching over sociological dynamics becomes "blame."
Specific push-back against particular AA congregations that took a public stance in support of 8 is decried as "racism."

How can we start a dialogue when the attempt is invalidated from the beginning?

[stpintodalite]

Here's the thing you need to understand; scapegoating Black people only serves to erode the support for gay rights that exists in the Black community. Many Black people who voted against Prop 8 do not equate gay rights with civil rights - in general one is not considered higher than the other but they are definitely not seen as the same thing. Homophobia within the Black community needs to be addressed but that will not immediately translate into more votes in support of gay marriage because there are so many other issues that need to be resolved just so that black gays feel more accepted. Stop focusing on race. Prop 8 won because of fear. People were afraid that children would be taught about homosexuality in school. People were afraid that churches would be forced to perform gay marriage. The Yes on 8 team pushed their message more effectively and in the end the majority of Californians went for it regardless of race.

[gobamaaa]

Thank you. This is exactly what makes me so angry about all of the scapegoating. If people want to effect real change they should stick to the issues and come up with ways to speak to those yes voters without attacking them on the basis of race or diminishing their religious beliefs.

[Glenn1441]

And how do we build a coalition, Mr. Besen? The LGBT community is widely dispersed, without a single organizing body. The DNC component seems a failure to me.

And so I pose a genuine question to all HuffPost bloggers who comment on Prop. 8:

How?

With a concerted and well-organized effort, we will not see same-sex marriage in CA anytime soon. We must move quickly, and not wait until the next election cycle. We have options in court as well.

Again: How?

[M1]

I think the key is the internet and I would consider moving away from the DNC. Clearly, they are not practicing the vision of Equality for All inclusive of Gay Marriage and other rights. I do not beleive the DNC is necessary and these demonstrations are proving it to be so. If we stay attached to the DNC they will just keep telling Gays to wait.

[jsarets]

Nate Silver says don't blame blacks and new voters, blame old consistent voters:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/12/nate-silver-dont-blame-pr_n_143273.html

It still continues to boggle my mind that the GLBT community has yet to come around to the obvious (to me) solution to their regrettable plight: Start a religion!!

If GLBTs founded a new religion based on common sense morality and marriage as a commitment of mutual love between two people, then the Establishment Clause would make it exceptionally difficult, if not impossible, for the State to infringe of their freedom of religion.

Protect your cultural freedom with the same institutional tools as Evangelical Christians use to protect theirs. If you have a deep spiritual belief in same-sex marriage, then you are entitled to that belief as long as you declare it as such. You've already found religion, and it's about time you speak up about it.