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Will Marshall

Will Marshall

Posted: January 10, 2011 03:02 PM

Tucson: The Real Questions

What's Your Reaction:

We at the Progressive Policy Institute are heartsick over the senseless attack Saturday on Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, which also claimed the lives of six people, including a nine-year-old girl. Not only is Gabby our friend, she is an exemplar of the pragmatic progressivism that puts country before party. We pray for her recovery, and grieve for those who will never recover from this rampage.

As if this tragedy were not bad enough, some pundits have disgraced themselves by using it to score political points and vindicate their own particular stance. Thus, we're instructed that the attack was the inevitable result of a climate of hostility created by the Tea Party, or Sarah Palin, or anti-immigration groups in Arizona. There's no evidence this is true, but political gladiators apparently can't help themselves.

We've refrained from commenting until now in hopes of learning more about the motives of the alleged shooter, Jared Lee Loughner. It seems he suffers from severe mental illness and was animated by his own inner demons, rather than "vitriol" in the atmosphere.

The political finger-pointing that has followed the shooting has been revolting. It's not too early to start grappling with some of the pertinent questions this tragedy actually raises. We'd highlight three:

First, why is it so easy for mentally disturbed individuals to acquire handguns in America? The gun shop that sold Loughner the semiautomatic Glock 19 apparently ran a background check. Why did it not turn up the fact that the suspect had recently been booted out of a community college for his erratic and disruptive behavior? Surely more rigorous checks are in order and don't impair the basic right to gun ownership.

And what public purpose is served by allowing citizens to buy high-capacity magazines more suitable for war than self-protection? These were covered under the ban on assault weapons passed on President Clinton's watch, which has since lapsed. Let's hope the Tucson massacre gives fresh impetus to reinstating it.

Second, how is it that we lack the legal tools to protect society against mentally unhinged people before they turn violent? Most people with serious mental illnesses aren't dangerous, but some are. Obviously, it's hard to assess such risks in advance. Yet when people exhibit patterns of bizarre and sociopathic behavior -- as did the alleged suspect in Tucson, and as did Seung-Hui Cho, who massacred 32 people at Virginia Tech in 2007 -- they shouldn't simply be left to their own devices. Determining how to preempt the potential for violence entails careful thought and a delicate calibration of individual rights and public safety. But society can't simply look the other way as individuals descend into madness.

Third, will this attack result in erecting new barriers between elected representatives and the people? As we have seen since 9/11, elected officials have a tendency to overreact to acts of violence, erecting elaborate and costly security shields against low-probability threats. Will Members of Congress now demand bodyguards and be enveloped in security cocoons like the president? If the Tucson attack leads to a greater separation between politicians and those who elect them, it will have dealt a serious blow to our democracy.

 
We at the Progressive Policy Institute are heartsick over the senseless attack Saturday on Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, which also claimed the lives of six people, including a nine-year-old girl. Not only...
We at the Progressive Policy Institute are heartsick over the senseless attack Saturday on Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, which also claimed the lives of six people, including a nine-year-old girl. Not only...
 
 
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
tony wise
12:30 PM on 01/15/2011
to jerry:

it was a lefty congressman that made that statement about a righty actually.

http://thetimes-tribune.com/opinion/editorials-columns/roderick-random/kanjorski-ponders-nuts-bolts-from-blue-1.1052739#axzz1B7nJgfGA


That Scott down there that's running for governor of Florida," Mr. Kanjorski said. "Instead of running for governor of Florida, they ought to have him and shoot him. Put him against the wall and shoot him. He stole billions of dollars from the United States government and he's running for governor of Florida. He's a millionaire and a billionaire. He's no hero. He's a damn crook. It's just we don't prosecute big crooks."
Read more: http://thetimes-tribune.com/opinion/editorials-columns/roderick-random/kanjorski-ponders-nuts-bolts-from-blue-1.1052739#ixzz1B7pwNBEL
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Talossa
Not all liberals are silly.
09:45 AM on 01/12/2011
It is (almost) funny how the right-wing denial machine has been trying to deny the shooter's conservative bona fides by citing the apparent facts that he smoked pot, was an atheist, and thought 9/11 was an inside job -- all evidence, they say, that he was "really" a "liberal democrat."

Just reminding them that noted conservati­ve thinker William F. Buckley smoked pot; famous conservati­ve author Ayn Rand was an atheist; and esteemed conservati­ve columnist Robert Novak thought 9/11 was an inside job.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
tony wise
12:23 PM on 01/15/2011
just to remind you his own friends also said he was a liberal.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Talossa
Not all liberals are silly.
02:13 AM on 01/16/2011
Care to cite a reputable source?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Jerry Vasquez
A Unapologetic liberal
12:23 PM on 01/11/2011
Important questions all but I fear that as long as the right has this on going love affair with guns
and will do everything in it's power to stop all gun control efforts, no matter how small, the
tragic events of this past weekend will continue to repeat themselves. There is a massive conflict
of interest at the heart of republican ideology and that is using guns control issues to drive fund
raising to all time highs ( the red meat ) while quietly,anonymously attempting to pass gun
legislation. The last point is of concern, How could politicians even thing of calling for more
security for themselves be possible when they are stoking up the fears of their base.
One way to get a handle on that could be to have a threshold,,, use heated rhetoric and lose
your security provisions. That might force them to think before opening their big yaps.
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09:00 PM on 01/11/2011
Thats an idea straight out of the first amendment!

Say something we don't like, and we will remove your security detail.

Question: Who gets to decide what is and isn't heated rhetoric?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Jerry Vasquez
A Unapologetic liberal
02:24 PM on 01/12/2011
A decent question. Some examples that comes to mind is that of a retired congressman
who said that the present Fl. governor should be shot. Another is that former house
leader Nancy Pelosi should be poisoned. As to how and who gets to decide what is and
isn't heated rhetoric, I wish that I could provide a direct link to those comments because
in todays climate taking some ones word that they were said seems woefully inadequate.
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dfranz
With Liberty and Justice for all
12:00 PM on 01/11/2011
I remember when they closed the mental institution in our state. It was during the Regan administration and the common thought then was that they were just places for fakers and freeloaders to live. Regan's logic was that emptying federal mental institutions helped the prisons and was just another entitlement program to be axed for tax cuts.

How's that working out for us?
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
tony wise
12:59 PM on 01/15/2011
well not very good considering democrats are still cutting mental heath services nationwide for thier pet projects.

california spending billions on new busses.

so is oregon. and lightrails.

all across the nation a trillion in stimulus dollars are being used for state gov pet projects while they starve the people and thats FACT jack.
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02:38 PM on 01/15/2011
I remember in the 80's in southwest New Mexico the saying was they let everybody out of mental institutions in Arizona and gave them a bus ticket to Lordsburg. I had a few memorable encounters on the edge of the Gila Wilderness with people who'd fallen through every crack there was-- their survival alone was a testament to human resilience.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
macs3rd
10:41 AM on 01/11/2011
It s much more acceptacle to blame the "left" the "liberal elite" , the NorthEast , it is the false claims of conservatism CHristian, Family values crowd that has spent more than forty years building this climate of hate. he loud Right became more and more hypocritical, with adulterers calling out Bill Clintons personal life (How many Speakers had to resign to find one that had not been caught cheating to try to impeach Clinton?), with pill popping Limbaugh waving flags of decency, airport lovers with wide stances trying to outlaw homosexuality, ...........all the time these people claim the moral high ground.
Beginning with Richard Nixon inventing the "Silent Majority" in order to drown out protest against the wars in SouthEast Asia, invasion of Cambodia and his personal corruption., theyspent years enshrining themselves as the only loyal,virtuous Americans, Judge anyone who disagreed

Fox News, "Christian" Right, Beck, Limbaugh, O"Reilly: the list goes on. pill addicts, adulterers and corrupt Conservaives inciting hatred against those who get in the way of their power and profits! The ranting Limbaugh, Beck and O"Reilly prove once again, that they will twist reality into whatever makes their views correct, whatever will strike fear into the hearts of those who follow them. The ancient art of dehumanizing enemies and inciting against them needs to come to a stop. They are all they accuse others of. They are a stain on what the best of this country can be.
Please listen to them no more!
CanuckforamultipartyUSA
Let's ask Maher Arar about rendition...
09:46 AM on 01/11/2011
I asked this question weeks ago, when the story of BillO talking about beheading Milbank came out. What is the matter with both BillO and Beck (talking about poisoning Pelosi's wine) that they can't "attack" their "enemies" without using violent imagery??? It is absurd that two grown men get so much media attention by using violent imagery rhetoric? Beck about Pelosi was very realistic, and could be construed as a threat of bodily harm, but because he's Beck, he gets away with it. Are they so ignorant and have such small vocabularies that they can't insult or "attack without using violent imagery? and these men are making millions of dollars, and have millions of loyal "followers"....sounds almost cult like to me. Didn't your country learn anything from the Jonestown Tragedy?
01:19 PM on 01/11/2011
You realize that both major political parties engage in this type of speech. See this list of quotes from President Obama:

http://thespeechatimeforchoosing.wordpress.com/2011/01/10/did-barack-obamas-violent-rhetoric-inspire-mass-murder-in-arizona/

Not promoting the website. I have no idea whose blog it is. It just happened to have a collection of Obama's "violent" quotes.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
tony wise
10:41 AM on 01/15/2011
its not just obama

the author of this very article used targets in democrat campaigns.

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?c
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
kellym33
11:00 AM on 01/15/2011
You learned well from fox news how to take things out of context to use them for your own benefit. Anyone who has listened to this President over the last 2 years knows that his message has NOT been one of vi0lence. Listen to Sarah Palin for 2 minutes and you will hear nothing but aggressive, combative rhetoric. The difference is obvious to anyone with a brain.
nothingchanges
too soon old, too late smart
09:44 AM on 01/11/2011
An idle curiosity that my be deemed inappropriate by the mediators................

As tragic as the events in Tucson were, and they were tragic............the sad fact is that over 16000 people are murdered in the United States every year. Why?

If we don't address that one simple question, statistically it's just a matter of time before another "newsworthy" tragedy occurs.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Talossa
Not all liberals are silly.
12:46 PM on 01/15/2011
The pro-gun side shoots and kills over 10,000 people every year. How many people do anti-gun activists shoot every year?
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Peter Combs
Amused by the illogical..no, NOT a Republican
09:20 AM on 01/11/2011
Growing infiormation indicates that this Sheriff knew about Loughner for quite some time. Loughner has been reported before for making death threats and was pretty well known at the Sheriff's office run by Dupnik. His deputies apparently assured the potential victims that Loughner's mental health problems were being tended to and he was not a threat..

In the days ahead, I suspect we'll learn why Mr. Loughner was never charged with making death threats and it will likely land back with the Sheriff who seems to be covering his butt. I find it amazing given this guy's history of mental illness and threatening bahavior the Sheriff failed to make more of an effort to protect his community.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ObamaSupporterPete
01:35 PM on 01/11/2011
I lived in Arizona for many years. Sheriff Dupnik was elected in 1980. Unless declared a danger to self or others, the law enforcement officials can do nothing. Don't go trying to deflect the horror of this situation by saying the Sheriff is covering his ass. Clarence Dupnik has been re-elected every time he has run. You don't keep an elected job for over 20 years by not protecting the public. The sheriff isn't the one introducing violent political speech and attacking political opponents as traitors and criminals. Sure Loughner was a nut, but someone sold him the gun.
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Keth30
I used to be a liberal, then I grew up.
11:08 AM on 01/15/2011
So, the person who had direct knowledge of Jared Loughner's mental instability, Sheriff Dupnik, gets a pass. His parents also get a pass. But, political commentators, with no evidence of Jared even listening to them, are guilty of accessory to mur der?

Is this your logic?
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
tony wise
12:27 PM on 01/15/2011
"Unless declared a danger to self or others"

his school declared him a threat.

had the sheriff bothered to investigate?
03:34 PM on 01/11/2011
I agree Peter. There is something that hasn't come out yet. I don't know if the sheriff is covering his own posterior, however, this just doesn't add up. 1) Mother worked for the county. 2) Multiple complaints about the shooter's actions. 3) They have been left alone in the house where you would assume will contain evidence. 4) The sheriff seems to have prior personal knowledge of the family. There is more to this story . This is the first comment I have made on any forum pertaining to this horrific event . Words cannot express the sorrow i feel for all the victims of this tragedy. It's hard to even wrap your mind around the number of people this directly affected.
HUFFPOST PUNDIT
AnnfromCA
07:50 AM on 01/11/2011
To be very specific, really, young men afflicted with paranoid schizophrenia often start showing clear symptoms in late teens.  Very often this symptom combines with drug use and the usual teenage thinking.  In today's environment, where fame is so coveted and everyone goes on TV to spill their guts or whatever else just for attention, the real danger is that we'll see even more mass murders from this sick segment of our society.
 
I would repeat that in CA, anyway, you can definitely call the police when someone is acting bizarre and threatening, and the police will make a judgment on the spot and take the person in for observation in state hospitals.  There they can be observed for 3 days. 
 
His parents, also, could have reached out for help.  The mental health community helps parents through the current mire of gaining custodianship in such cases.  It's certainly been made more difficult, given the proactive civil rights groups.
 
It wouldn't have mattered if there was a 3 day wait.  The fact is that nothing would have shown up on his record.  The police gave him a pass. 
 
And they need to examine their policies in light of this tragedy.  Perhaps that's why the sheriff was so quick to point the finger towards talk radio rather than at police policies.  Perhaps he knew already what had NOT been done.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
WowJones
Trolls are like mosquitoes on acid.
08:00 AM on 01/11/2011
Sarah Palin blamed by the US Secret Service over death threats against Barack Obama

Sarah Palin's attacks on Barack Obama's patriotism provoked a spike in death threats against the future president, Secret Service agents revealed during the final weeks of the campaign.

The attacks provoked a near lynch mob atmosphere at her rallies, with supporters yelling "_terroris­­t" and "kiII him" until the McCain campaign ordered her to tone down the rhetoric.

But it has now emerged that her demagogic tone may have unintentio­­nally encouraged white supremacis­­ts to go even further.

The Secret Service warned the Obama family in mid October that they had seen a dramatic increase in the number of threats against the Democratic candidate, coinciding with Mrs Palin's attacks.

http://www­­.telegrap­h­.co.uk/n­ew­s/world­new­s/nort­hame­rica/­usa/s­arah­-palin­/34­05336/S­ar­ah-Palin­-­blamed-by­­-the-US-Se­­cret-Serv­i­ce-for-d­ea­th-thre­ats­-again­st-B­arack­-Obam­a.ht­ml?sms­_ss­=facebo­ok­&at_xt=4­d­2a2a99893­­5ffeb,0

You can draw a time line directly back to Palin being nominated”
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Mag7
Smarter than the Average Dog
09:36 AM on 01/11/2011
The mental heath care previously available in Arizona has been dismantled by Jan Brewer.
http://www.pafcoalition.org/budget/
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
rougebaisers
07:49 AM on 01/11/2011
First....WHY are Americans allowed to own these weapons at all?

A day will come when America is forced to end it's maddening love affair with these destructive weapons.
09:56 AM on 01/11/2011
Seems like you need a history lesson. It's a constitutional right specifically mentioned. Right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. This is meant for all individuals. It was put in place to protect the people from an oppressive gov't.
09:59 AM on 01/11/2011
Cars are more destructive, should we ban those as well?
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Marchmont
05:46 AM on 01/11/2011
Attempts by the US media to explain events in Tucson ignore the elephant in the sitting room - over-the-counter guns - to blame a rare moment of divisive political debate. Yet gun culture is a central feature of the American identity and has its roots in the myths of the Wild West when settlers slaughtered buffalo and native people. Before the Revolutionary Wars, standing armies were seen as a threat so that providing one’s own weapons for service in the local militia was mandatory for all adult males. This ended with independence but obtuse misinterpretation of the Second Amendment over many years has put 300 million firearms in private hands. Gun crime in Scotland accounts for less than half of one percent of all crime and sharing a common language does not help the Scots understand this American obsession.
03:36 AM on 01/11/2011
Three letters (and surprisingly not mentioned once in your article): the NRA.
01:05 AM on 01/11/2011
This is not Rocket Science is to why Gun Violence is so prevalent, The Once Conservative American Society that was overrun by A Liberal Philosophy & Mindset of Selfish Irresponsible Childish Attitudes that they should be able to Act anyway they want without having to account for their Actions. The once Conservative America of Having Honor & Respect and doing the right thing, That as President Kennedy Said its Not What Your Country Does for You, But What you can do for your Country. I have Served My Country more than half my life and Sacrificing for My Country,My Family,My Community. Putting those Commitments ahead of my own Personal Wants & Gains was the Mold of the Past,That Honoring something,Having Respect,That doing the right thing is the way our Country became the Leader of the Free World. And the Facts and Prove of a Conservative America is in our Constitution,The Reason we became a Country that could have People or a Society that could fight Two Wars in WWII,Korea,Vietnam, And it was then that the Democrats Had turned there backs on the Military for Political Greed and the Long Haired Hippies/Protesters who wanted what they wanted without having to give or Sacrifice anything for it,That was the beginning of a new Society that had know Honor or Respect,That didn't think they had to pay or Sacrifice for the Freedom & Liberty they had or received. Gun Violence is a Product of a Society that takes know Personal Responsibility for its
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
CosmicIrony
09:51 AM on 01/11/2011
It's time to give your anger at hippies a rest, dude.
renoir
Comfortably Numb
11:54 AM on 01/11/2011
Your Us vs. Them perspective is the problem.

My father served in WWII. My brother is a lifer in the Navy. My parents were both public school teachers and taught literally tens of thousands of kids during their careers. They are all committed liberals. Don't you dare, sir. Don't you dare lay blame on this tragedy at the feet of Americans who simply disagree with your world view. We are not the enemy, we too serve, we raise families, we work hard, we believe in our country, we serve the common good.

Your sanctimonious and finger-pointing rant is simply incorrect. You are an old man who is shouting at clouds. And you do not know your history, which is clear by your claim that we were "Once a Conservative American Society". Yah. You mean when women couldn't vote? Or that part where we had slaves? Or the tidbit about forcing Native Americans off their own lands? Exactly what part of American history are you talking about? What is your ideal time? I'm sure it can be shown that the time you pine for either never really existed, or only was a good time for your particular demographic.

Read some real history and learn some real facts. Outside of the Puritans, our society was founded by PROGRESSIVES... and dare I say it... IMMIGRANTS. That you don't know and understand this speaks volumes about your lack of education.
11:38 PM on 01/10/2011
So if Jared Loughner was/is an Obama supporter, why shouldn't all other Obama supporters be quarantined as a precaution?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Talossa
Not all liberals are silly.
01:25 AM on 01/11/2011
No, because in that case he wouldn't fit a pattern.
05:24 PM on 01/11/2011
Thanks for providing a good reason why you have been a member for four years and have 0 friends.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Oceras
A little inductive reasoning is a dangerous thing.
11:04 PM on 01/10/2011
If you truly believe that a toxic political milieu filled with disrespect and talk of violence will have no effect on those who are in thrall of that milieu, then you are sadly mistaken. If you believe that there are not minds out there that unscrupulously know how to keep their audience addicted to their point of view, then you are sadly mistaken. If you think that abundant and ubiquitous talk about distrust and disrespect of those the speaker disagrees with, and which hints at violence as a possible answer does not make violent acts more thinkable, then you are sadly mistaken. There are plenty of psychological tests that show that people can be convinced into doing the most horrendous acts. These phenomena are not unreal, and they are a real danger to a civil society in which one may live with a minimum of or no fear.