In a recent interview with the New York Times, world-renowned chiropractor Gerry Ramogida claimed that he was shocked by an Al Jazeera investigation into performance enhancing drugs. In the program, several of Ramogida's alleged business partners were exposed, appearing to offer banned drugs to a British athlete.
That athlete, Liam Collins, was working undercover for Al Jazeera's Investigative Unit. Ramogida was not mentioned in the documentary "The Dark Side: Secrets of the Sports Dopers."
But Collins did meet with Ramogida numerous times in 2015 for soft tissue therapy and he recorded those encounters as part of Al Jazeera's investigation. Al Jazeera is now releasing some of the statements Ramogida made to Collins - statements that were recorded on hidden camera and which raise questions about whether Ramogida was more involved in the business than he now claims.
The business in question is called ProMed LLC -- a fledgling telemedicine service that planned to offer second opinions and treatment for professional athletes who may not completely trust their team doctors.
ProMed was still in its formative stages when Al Jazeera caught its principal architects, Vancouver pharmacist Chad Robertson and naturopath Brandon Spletzer, providing what they claimed to be banned substances to Liam Collins on hidden camera.
Gerry Ramogida, who has worked with the Seattle Seahawks since 2002, was showcased in a ProMed business prospectus written by Chad Robertson. One slide showed Ramogida holding the Vince Lombardi trophy after the Seahawks won the Super Bowl in 2014. He told the New York Times that he was unaware that Robertson used his likeness and that he never invested in the company.
But as late as October 2015, Ramogida, not knowing that Liam Collins was taping his conversation, was bullish on ProMed's prospects and the medical talent the business had gathered.
Liam Collins: Do you reckon you guys will be amongst the best in the world?
Gerry Ramogida: We will...I think once this is up and running. Between the people we've got, between Berghamer...
Liam Collins: Grant...
Gerry Ramogida: Grant. Dr. Pagdin, Chad, Charlie. You're not going to get a better concentration of minds than that.
In December, Ramogida told Al Jazeera that to his knowledge, the ProMed enterprise was entirely "conceptual" and that in September, a month before he made the above statements, he "respectfully declined to continue the development of this enterprise."
He mentioned several names involved in the project. Dr. Jonathan Berghamer is a Burnaby-based naturopath and ozone specialist. "Grant" is Dr. Grant Pagdin, a medical doctor who runs an anti-aging clinic in Kelowna, British Columbia. Dr. Berghamer told Al Jazeera that he met Chad Robertson in June 2015. Robertson mentioned the idea of a "physician-led second opinion telemedicine-based business concept, however, the conversation did not progress beyond his initial introduction. Performance enhancing drugs were never discussed."
Dr. Pagdin did not respond to a request for comment.
By "Charlie", Ramogida is referring to Charlie Sly, the Texas-based doctor of pharmacy who was also featured in the Al Jazeera documentary. Sly grabbed headlines when he made claims captured on hidden camera that an anti-aging clinic in Indianapolis, the Guyer Institute, had been repeatedly sending human growth hormone to the wife of NFL quarterback Peyton Manning.
Manning has not denied that HGH was sent to his wife, but he has never used the substance. After he became aware that he had been secretly recorded for six days, Sly asserted that everything he told Collins during more than 27 hours of conversations was "absolutely false and incorrect."
Ramogida told the New York Times that he "met Mr. Sly only once and that he did not perceive Mr. Sly to be an integral part of the ProMed business discussions."
But that doesn't fit with earlier statements made by Ramogida, Sly or Robertson.
On August 23rd 2015, Chad Robertson, speaking to Collins on hidden camera, clearly outlined the company structure of ProMed, with Ramogida and Sly as central figures.
Chad Robertson: The company is owned by Dustin Keller who is an NFL athlete, Charlie Sly and then a parent holding co., which is Brandon, myself and Gerry.
Al Jazeera has seen no public records linking anyone but Robertson to ProMed LLC. Charlie Sly's attorney Travis Cohron responded that Sly "was never an owner etc. of ProMed LLC, if such a company even ever existed."
Chad Robertson, Dustin Keller and Brandon Spletzer did not respond to request for comment.
In a taped conversation on October 30th 2015, Charlie Sly indicated that ProMed was actually Ramogida's idea in the first place.
Liam Collins: In terms of the ProMed are you doing something similar over here? Why aren't you doing it in the states?
Charlie Sly: I already am. They are developing ProMed because they want a more organized system. I have known Gerry for a while and he wanted to do what I was doing in a more organized fashion.
On August 24th, Ramogida told Collins about Sly's role in the ProMed business especially as they worked to expand operations into Washington State. He said that Brandon Spletzer had a license to practice medicine there and that "Charlie has a contact in Washington, so we may be able to do all that just across the border."
In that same conversation Ramogida described Sly as a difficult-to-work-with savant who would need careful managing.
Liam Collins: You think he's a genuine genius?
Gerry Ramogida: Oh yeah. He's one of these kinds of genius types that he's so deep into things that he forgets where the baseline normal is for everybody else. Let him do what he's going to do.
Liam Collins: He kind of needs someone else working with him, doesn't he?
Gerry Ramogida: Well, that's what we're going to do.
Ramogida told the New York Times there was never a "discussion" or a "hint" of anything to do with banned substances when it came to ProMed. He reiterated that sentiment in a comment to Al Jazeera. He added that that he would "not have considered looking at a business concept had there been any evidence of that."
In several meetings with Collins, Ramogida was careful when discussing performance enhancing drugs. Today, in response to request for comment from Al Jazeera, he added, "I have never and will never condone the use of PED's. It runs contrary to everything that I've stood for over the course of my career in sports."
Ramogida told Al Jazeera that the ProMed concept was "entirely legitimate" and to his knowledge the company "never materialized." He told the New York Times that he ultimately "backed out of the [ProMed] project in the fall after he realized that he was being used as a front man."
The idea of a "front man" is something Ramogida discussed with Collins in August 2015 when they talked about the possibility of working with NFL players.
Liam Collins: Do you let Chad loose with these guys or do you try and take control? Because I guess you've got to be a bit careful.
Gerry Ramogida: Yeah, I have to be very careful in a team environment, especially with the Seahawks because I have a direct relationship with the club.
Liam Collins: So you tend to keep Chad in the shadows.
Gerry Ramogida: He prefers to be when it comes to dealing with those guys, for the most part.
Liam Collins: That's the best way to keep you the clean front man.
Gerry Ramogida: Right.
Liam Collins: Have Chad come up with stuff but to keep you separate.
Gerry Ramogida: Right. Yeah. Because it's all about relations. Actually in a sport of any level, it's about relationships.
A team spokesman for the Seattle Seahawks declined to comment for this story.
The Al Jazeera documentary has sparked investigations by the Canadian Centre for Ethics in Sports; Major League Baseball in cooperation with the United States Anti-Doping Agency as well as the National Football League. Ramogida told the New York Times that he would assist in any doping inquiry.
But in a candid moment, caught on hidden camera, Ramogida made it clear how he feels about the NFL's record on catching dopers.
Gerry Ramogida: The reality is the NFL is not interested in busting the guys because it just negatively impacts...
He went on to offer his tongue-in-cheek take on what football players might say if they do test positive.
Gerry Ramogida: The standard line for the NFL is: "I was taking a supplement and there is this substance in it that I was unaware of. Ultimately, I'm responsible for what goes in my body so I'll take my suspension."
Liam Collins: Yes, that's it. People feel better afterward. That's it.
Gerry Ramogida: I was taking this supplement that came in a syringe that I stuck in my ass.
Which I knew I wasn't supposed to take it but damn it I got caught.